Herding?
 

I have long wondered this.. because in the FCI the CSV is classified under the Sheepdogs and Cattle Dogs category.. are there herding CSVs? I know that in the FCI they have no working trial, but I'd be interested to know what style of herding the CSV employs when compared to the specified herding techniques of, say, ACDs or Aussies? I'd say based on some CSV pictures I've seen, that they'd be pretty good at giving sheep "the eye"!

An Aussie giving sheep the famous Aussie 'eye':
http://www.risingsunfarm.com/images/...eprtlg_000.jpg

Hi Jing,

mind you, they're definitely giving sheep their famous Czechoslovakian teeth:evil_lol...

Cheers,
Michael

Do you mean, doing this?

(not my dog, just an interesting video!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vu1K8QMmZk

I'm sure my wife will want to try it. :)

Really nice video, but unfortunately this is in no way herding as a proper sheepdog would do it.
I would like to see a wolfdog herding scattered sheep on an open pasture without that extremely tight controlling as seen in this clip.
And the sheep seen here are not controlled by the dog they're paying attention to what the people do, most of the time the dog doesn't seem to know what he's supposed to do.
But nevertheless a nice clip.

Michael

Thorgal and Etienne: Thorgal video

Marvelous dog and "work", but still no herding in the sense a herding dog and a professional shepherd would do it.
But anyway, great job and lots of compliments for that.
I think the FCI had to put the CSW somewhere and since the GSD was involved they'd just put them in Group 1.
It had nothing to do with his ability as a herding and even working dog.

Michael

Some more pics (all Thorgal pics of the contest there: http://larzac.concours.free.fr/Navac...gal/index.html ):

http://chien-au-troupeau.com/albumsp...211thorgal.jpg

great ! very nice video

:roflmao

Thanks for the videos! I agree with Michael, though.. it seems that these dogs are taking 'herding' as a obedience (OB) test! Good to know they don't find sheep very yummy, though. ;)

That is what I think...

Saarloos is also in Group 1 :lol:

Best regards / Mikael

So Luna sheep herding for the first time yesterday - I am sure my husband will post the video when he gets around to it. Well, she certainly has drive - though I would say she is a little more predatory than expected for a 16 week old. She did the "good" herding things like "wearing" and "gathering" but she also REALLY wanted some mutton! She kept diving forward to grab a tail - the only reason she didn't get a mouthful is I was able to keep my sheep stick in the way! She is totally full of herself.
We went to a UKC show today for some socializing and was just a love to everyone there. I was happy to see her so extroverted.

So, are you going to continue with actual herding? What's your prediction? :) Is she really cut out for herding, or not really?

Well, I am really spoiled when it comes to Herding - my Malinois, Zorro, has only had a handful of lessons (it is 2 hours away and expensive) and is ready to earn his PT title (I worked him yesterday too, he hadn't seen sheep in over a year and a half and even back then he had only about 6 sessions with sheep). Zorro knows what he is doing from Mother Nature - I am just an idiot with a stick! Seriously, Zorro makes me look good!
On the flipside, Luna works like a typical GSD, in my instructor's opinion - and very much like my GSD Kiri. She is a little predatory and bossy with the sheep and will require a firm hand and excellent timing. My instructor usually works my GSD for me, as she has way more experience than I do and she likes a hard dog, so it may end up that she works Luna for me too.
I think it will depend on how frequently I can get to work on stock while Luna is still puppy enough for me to mold - otherwise she will require a more experienced hand.
I like herding but it isn't easy with a dog like Luna. My instructor teases me and calls Zorro "Prince Charming" and "Gentleman Jack" and certainly encourages me to continue on - it will just take longer and more work with Luna than it has with Zorro. And Luna has her won ideas about what we should be doing - she isn't the type of dog that will "lie down" on command if she thinks she should be moving the stock. Zorro is obedient enough so that I have time to "catch up" to his sheep smarts, but Luna will not give me that - she will do things HER way. So I have to learn faster and figure out how to reward her with sheep or remove them from her when she does something wrong. She will take every opportunity to get what she wants, to heck with me. I predict a few shredded tails, and lower legs before I am quick enough to compensate...

http://www.youtube.com/draggardevir#p/a/u/2/Zcqo6XHzpRI

Here she is Herding!

Very interesting video! I am very surprised that Luna doesn't show more interest in the sheep initially. Thanks for sharing! Look forward to more videos.

Remember, she is only 16 weeks old, and a lot of her "lack of interest" in the video is actually her offering "calming signals" (looking away, pretend sniffing, moving toward them sideways to be polite) to the sheep. Never having seen them before, she was not sure how to "communicate" with them, so she used "polite dog" language. Not to mention all the smells of the other dogs, sheep pee, and more importantly, sheep POO.
Disgusting, but true, she thought of the pasture as a salad bar - she ate at least a pound of sheep poo. So, there was FRESH poo in the round pen (hey, they are running Pez dispensers, mom!) to eat, as well.
And what exactly are we doing, mom? What are they?
Once she realized THEY moved if she chased them, she was all about that new-found power. It was the first time in her life that something bigger than her DIDN'T correct her rudeness! And they RAN AWAY so enticingly! And they have tug toys attached to their butts, too!

:|

I forgot about the sheep poo.

Yeah............ there was a horse that passed through our park this morning and left some gifts and the two pinshers would NOT leave it alone. Much more interesting, course.

Yes, very interesting. One day Luna will eat them all loooooooool

No, seriously: don´t you have the possibility to do "mantrailing" with Luna? CsW are really predestinated for that.

Cheers
Angelika

I do Schutzhund with her - one of the phases is Tracking, so yes, she has learned to Track. Her favorite thing is bitework, though. She wants to GRAB the man! :rock_3

Yes, Sara, we all know. But tracking is not the the same as trailing.

Please have a look here:

http://www.twhclub.de/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=1279

Please click on the link of the first post and then "Zum Video" top right.

It´s German but I think you´ll understand the "movie".

The CsW Altai (Falin Zlatá Palz) was able to find the reporter (who drove away by car for 3 kilometer) only by sniffing her neckerchief before.

Hard work ... but really good work for Czechoslowakian wolfdogs :) :)

Cheers,
Angelika

Angelika, great video!!

Thank you for sharing. That looks like a fun activity to do with a CSV!

PS - Is that the same Ina on these forums?

Yes, but also very exhausting for the dog to "catch" the right smell-particle.

You´re right :):)

Tired is ok! As they say, "A tired dog is a good dog"! :)

... sometimes :lol::lol::lol:8)

She is simply the best :love

Is there any more video or her trailing ???

Best regards / Mikael

I have not done "trailing" (air scenting, used for Search and Rescue and how AKC does their Tracking) with her, as I am doing Tracking, and if you teach a dog to air-scent first it is nearly impossible to get them to ground-scent without "casting" their nose in the air (a fault that loses you points in Tracking).
Once a dog has learned ground-scenting it is easy to teach air-scenting, so we are building our foundation with ground-scenting before I start air-scenting.
My plan is to earn SchH titles with her, so I am focused on that for right now.
As an aside, I taught my Malinois to ground-scent for SchH Tracking and a few months ago my friend's dog ran away - I was able to get him to air-scent and find the missing dog!

Second Herding Session with Luna
 

So we took Luna herding again on 1-1-11. She was INCREDIBLE. Here is a link to the channel with her videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/draggardevir#p
Just look for Luna and Herding in the label and click on it. I am the gimpy handler with the hat.
She did really super on the sheep - much better than my German-Bred GSD, Kiri, who wanted to EAT the sheep. Luna had to stay "out" away from the sheep more than the other dogs - seems that the sheep got "light" due to her wolfier body silhouette. They allowed my Malinois very close, but Luna had to stay further and they were more anxious to crowd to me.
Luna "galloped" more than trotted, around the sheep (the other dogs trotted), but did not give hard eye - in fact, she gave a lot of polite calmng signals to them.
I will continue herding with her and my Malinois - I think my GSD is a little too hard on the stock (not to mention a challenge for my novice herding skills). Luna is also super about understanding "pressure" - not only pressure in regard to the stock, but also me as the handler. She is very sensitive to my eye and movement - incredible. Can't wait to see how she develops...

Very nice to see :p Very good work Sara !!! And Luna to !!!

And Luna is getting so BIG :o

Very best regards / Mikael

She is about 25" at the shoulder. Don't think she is going to get any taller, but she is LONG. I was very surprised to see her Herding so well - I figured she would be a little more "predatory" on the stock.
My instructor, Judith Kelly, also insisted that her students there watch Luna to a "different" kind of herding behavior. She teasingly calls Luna "the Wolf" - my Malinois is called "Prince Charming" and my GSD is the "Hard Bitch"...
One of the students noted that Luna pooed and peed in the same exact spot in the ring... latrine behavior has been documented in wolves and some domestic dogs.
She was very "smooth" though, easy to work due to her sensitivity, so I think Herding will be a successful venue for us. Not sure, but she may be the only Herding Instinct Certified CsV in the US right now...

Since I started this topic more than a year ago, I would like to update a little about our adventures with our CsV whom we didn't have at the time.

Our dog has passed the first leg of his Herding Capability Test. At first we did it just for fun knowing that according to the answers on this post, CsV aren't really used or known for herding, but since he liked it so much we decided to continue lessons and classes. Our instructor was a really nice man who really liked our dog's enthusiasm. So maybe someday soon we will wrap up his second leg of the test with some additional training and be the first CsV to be titled in herding in the US.

In either case, as long as he is having fun, we will do it. We are also doing trailing as well, so we keep him a really busy dog!

SUPER :thumbs !!!!

Really love to se photos :p

Best regards / M

he did really well!! go ghost!!... wish the instructor was over here though lol :)

lol everyone seems to love our trainer! :lol:

just a shame he isnt that easy on the eye..that would be a bonus! lol! least ghost is good looking though :lol:

Sorry for reviving old post but i had too. I dont think CsW should be forced to copy typical dog breeds in herding. CsW should do herding same as German Shepherd do it. When German Shepherds were herding dogs and not military / police dogs, in Germany they had big flocks, 500+ sheeps and no borders between private properties on big open fields. So many sheeps can do big damage if enter field which is not property of their master so German Shepherds herding consists of acting as living fance, dogs hold straight line and didnt let sheep break through, they even bite stuborn sheeps. Their role is also on corners and bridges and other narrow space where sheeps need to go through. There is even HGH title where mostly German Shepherd are on trials for it. Problem is its hard to distuingish if GSD interest in sheep comes from prey drive or herding drive, i guess that problem with CsW would be even bigger if its possible to do... Look some videos how GSD do it and tell me if CsW herding should be similiar to GSD type of herding or border collie type of herding...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UgoCfNS3qk