Pollux needs a new home (Florida - USA)
My wife and I have come to the very difficult decision that we need to re-home Pollux. :cry: While we love having him here, my wife needs to make room for Kiri's replacement as a service dog (Kiri is going to be 5 later this year and it takes about 2 years to train a service dog) plus we are expecting a GSD litter in about 7 weeks plus a possible vlcak litter this winter. Unfortunately we won't have the time or energy for him. :cry:
He is intact and we have his FCI papers and he is UKC registered (I think he is - we did show him in a UKC show cluster this weekend). If you know someone who would like to adopt him please shoot me or my wife (Luna's Mom) a PM. |
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poor Pollux :( why have so many puppies? why not concentrate on the dogs u already have? |
We're looking for a very good home for him, we're not just going to hand him off to anyone. This is also part of the reason why he's here - him being with us for the time we had him was beneficial to him.
As for the litters - the GSD litter is to see if we can get a puppy to replace Kiri as Sara's backup service dog (or the primary, that depends a lot on Luna, too, who is doing well with her SD training). We're also hoping to get 1-2 more puppies out of that litter for my wife's service dog organization. The vlcak liter is not etched in stone yet, its just a possibility. We still have a lot of time to see how Luna develops and we want to work with our breeder to find the best possible mate for her if one is available. Pollux washed out of the SD training due to his unpredictability. Most of the time he did great in his training but unfortunately most of the time can't cut it when someone is relying on him for mobility. We are hoping to find someone local (south Florida) so he's still around for the occasional playdate with Luna and some competition in the show ring (he's stunning now - I'm sure the next UKC cluster he'll beat Luna). |
Have you already contacted Pollux's breeder? Most reliable breeders get involved in the re-homing of 'their' pups. Crying Wolf is a big kennel exporting pups to many destinations, so Edit probably has good contacts in various parts of the world. I'd start by contacting her and seeking her advice. :|
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Isn't your friend Ms. Mullaly (sp?) Pollux's co owner? Won't she take him back? What is Pollux 'unpredictable' about?
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Poor Polux... Sorry, but I don't understand this kind of possition. Well, sometimes dogs grow up different when we expect them to, but is it really a reason to get rid of him?... Dogs should be family members, especially if they are as social as CzW are...
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Pollux is of 'no use' puppies are more important :evil: i guess it is best he finds a new home where he will be loved for what he is and be part of a family!! if only i lived closer :( |
This makes me really angry!!!! All this bully sh.t what Luna´s Mum wrote here and she was the one who encouraged the first owner of Pollux to take him, so that Luna is not alone any more. Poor Pollux now getting to third owner - and I bet that will not be the last. Why people do not believe what is written here over and over that csw are not easy dogs and not to compare with ordinary dog breed? It is a pure wolfdog!
I hope breeders like Edit will learn out of this and do not send the pups that far. Edit does not take pups back ... - as you wrote Rona, she is a big breeder - breeding for money. For Luna´s Mum and the first owner of Pollux - wasn´t she a dog trainer ... hahahaha - there are only one word a....es Christian |
Guys, it's the worse possible moment to start another war and scoring points! There is a dog that needs help and that's what matters. Dogs change owners for various reasons, misfortunes happen and none of us can be 100% sure he/she will be always able to keep their dog(s).
Dogs disappear mysteriously, are adopted at different age, sold abroad for lump sums, etc. etc. Only because people do it quietly they go away with it and nobody criticizes them... Neither did I like Lunasmom's and her friend's approach to selecting and importing the pup, but at least I can see open and responsible attempts to socialize, train and re-home Pollux. It's still much more fair than what many others do with "unwanted" dogs.:( |
Please note: Anything I say here is not intended in any way to be a negative comment or insult towards Crying Wolf Kennels. She bred a wonderful dog with Pollux.
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Pollux being with us was never intended to be a permanent solution. When he came to us full time he was put into a better situation than he was in (don't worry, he wasn't abused). We also spent many months working him, socializing him, training him, taking him to schutzhund, and even starting him out in the service dog training program. To say he is of "no use" is a serious slap in the face and insulting. Also, the puppies are just one of the reasons. As I mentioned, HIM BEING HERE WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE A PERMANENT SOLUTION. The puppies are also being bred for a SERVICE DOG program. Sorry we feel that helping people (especially veterans) by breeding in some service dogs for a service dog program. One puppy from our previous litter is in an autism service dog program and doing extremely well. We took him in when we knew we didn't have the room or time for him but we made room and time for him. Or would you prefer if we re-homed one of my wife's service dogs? I'm sure she doesn't need to go out as often as she does to places like work, errands, etc.. As for the new home, my wife is excellent at finding the best homes possible for our dogs. We did malinois rescue for many years and found them all homes that fit them perfectly. Our past liters of puppies all went to great homes. She makes sure that not only is the home is right for the dog but the dog is also right for the home. Quote:
Pollux is wonderful. We love him and gave him more than he had before. We even tried him in the service dog training program and if he worked out then this thread would not even exist but you can't have a service dog that gets skittish especially when someone is relying on him for mobility and physical stability. I find it odd here how we tried to do the right thing to take in a dog we had no room and little time for because he wasn't in the best situation and even what we could give him was an improvement over what he had before yet I"m the one getting trashed. We didn't import him, we didn't initially adopt him. We told his owner to research first yet we're the ones cleaning up the mess. Just because we're cleaning up the mess doesn't mean we made it. |
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while i do not agree with a few things,i guess this paragraph makes my post irelevant,and for that. i am sorry :( i am aslo sorry that Pollux will be onto his third home :( hope he finds a forever home soon and is happy. eta... 'home' and 'part of a family' does not imply shelter to me :? |
Good job taking in an unwanted dog! Hope nobody else sells your friend any other puppy of any breed, since they all have the possibility to fail expectations. Shame on her for not taking care of her responsibilities and leaving you to clean up the mess, and hope that any breeder who cares about their dogs won't sell anymore to a person who's known of the breed for a week or so! Sad all around... If I were you I wouldn't care if the person was local or not for my own benefit in show or choice of playmate... Just that he has a happy forever home ASAP so he can start adjusting!
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I'm sorry you guys are having to rehome Pollux, and I wish there were a way I could help! If situations were different here, and I lived closer, I would snatch him up in a heartbeat, but unfortunately, it's just impossible for us to take on another dog right now. :( Good luck finding him a good home! |
Hope Pollux finds a new home soon. *Sighs* if only I lived closer.
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Ref service dogs
It depends on what exactly the dog is being trained to do and how much the dog is relied on. For example Nyle my own service dog was originaly matched to someone else. On the initial meeting however, it was decided that he wasn't suitable for that person the main reason being hiw querks. For a man with set ideas as to what his dog should/shouldn't do, a dog with a strong left hand preference, a dislike of right turns, a temperament which is on the nervous side and the odd psycho motor seizure, wasn't going to work. So they offered him to me instead, clearly explaining what his issues were, though the seizures were something that appeared after I got him. Whilst he's not my first dog, he's my first service dog, obviously they thought I could handle him. He has improved given time and encouragement but no, he isn't always the easiest dog to work with. However, I knew this when I took him on. Perhaps Pollux could still be a service dog, just to someone who is 'less disabled' and or can/is prepared to work with/tolerate the querks for want of a better word. |
Pollux could make a good emotional support dog (in a nutshell they just need to be a loving and good dog - he's got the loving part down! :D ).
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SECOND - if you still want a CsW to be a servise dog, please, spend some time to study the lineages, to contact various breeders in various countries, etc. Just buying a puppy from the first one who agrees to sell it to you in this case is a Very Bad Idea. Of course, these words will not change the situation of Pollux - but maybe other people will read it before buying a "future service dog" from a :roll: farm, just because "it looks sooooo beautiful"... |
I don't think Pollux was ever selected to be a service dog. The lady who originally imported him (with warnings from me, Ed, and Sara against rushing, and how some CSVs just weren't cut out for this type training) intended to train him in Schutzhund/IPO type work. Sara originally purchased Luna from me, with the possibility to use her for service, conformation, and whatever type of training suited her (Luna does herding, obedience, a little protection, and she is also in the training phases of service work - and doing well, from what I understand) - but mostly as a loved pet, which she is. Sara, while concerned, was excited for her friend buying a puppy and tried to support her through the problems she had with Pollux from the early days; I don't imagine she ever thought Pollux's owner - her friend - someone who works with dogs, would do this to Pollux, it's very disappointing on many levels. I think Ed and Sara, feeling bad for Pollux, wished to get Pollux in as good a place as they could for his eventual "forever home" - with training, socialization and love. At the same time, Sara depends on her dogs for...well, her life. I think she recognizes that she can't give Pollux all that he needs in her home, living only as a pet beside the dog(s) she currently uses for service work, as well as the old retired ones (they don't live on a huge farm where they can keep ten dogs outside - all of their pets live in their house). I think now she wants to make sure he does go somewhere appropriate to his needs, where he can live inside as a much loved pet and companion, without huge training expectations, for the rest of his life.
It is an unfortunate situation, not one that I am happy about...and I do wish breeders in Europe would think very, very carefully before sending a dog to someone far away who they have never met, or that has no reference, at the very least, from an experienced CSV owner. Crying Wolf is definitely not the only breeder who is "guilty" of this. We have CSVs on this side of the world from Germany, Belgium, Lithuania, Czech Rep., Slovakia, Italy...all sent "blindly". I also wish new owners would go to see where and how their puppies are really raised, in what conditions, how the parents are, and of course, look at lineage. I think most new owners don't realize how important these things are for CSVs, maybe even more than other breeds. I feel certain that Pollux is not the first CSV with the need to be rehomed as an older dog :roll:...Ed is maybe just one of the more honest, "open" and vocal people to discuss this on the forum. |
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imo 15 months is young in a breed such as this,and a difficult time for a young male that could be going through another 'fear stage' (and teenage)as well as changing homes :(
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The regression wasn't fun with either but they both came out a better dog. We're writing it off as part of the maturing process. |
How important to you is it that he stay in proximity for your needs?
Surely it can't be so hard to find a nice home for a free dog of a young age and a rare breed somewhere in the USA (or even beyond). |
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Anyway, this sad story is also a lesson for European breeders... |
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Very best regards / Mikael |
I didn't speak of Lithuania (or any country, or breeder) in a negative reference. In fact, my first dog was sent to me - blindly - and I would hardly say it was a negative experience. The vast majority aren't negative experiences, and the new owners love their dog for the rest of it's life. I only meant that should a time come that a dog does need to be rehomed, it is very difficult to fix the problem as a breeder across an ocean. I have helped in two situations so far - one in the US, one in Canada. In one case, the breeder was able to arrange for the young dog/puppy to return to Europe. In the other case, I worked with the breeder to find a suitable home (with someone who already owned a CSV) in another state. I know of another case, many years ago, in which a lady (from the Czech Rep., married to an American man) imported a CSV, from a respected kennel, and nice breeding in CZ, and soon determined the young female was "too wolflike" for her family once she had small children. She had spent, as I understand, a lot of time in Europe around the breed. This dog was not so fortunate...I think it was forced across the rainbow bridge. :|
My point is, breeders must make a careful decision about how far is too far to rescue a dog if it needs help. They also need to think about how they will accomplish this, especially if they become on bad terms with the new owner. I think mistakes can be made to sell a puppy, regardless of distance, what country the person is from, whether someone meets, or maybe even "knows" the new owner - or maybe even a death of the owner, or accident, or other such things. A good breeder should be willing to travel to help and take back the dog. Maybe a trip to Spain, or even Israel, or the UK, or who knows is possible to rescue a dog. But it becomes even more difficult across an ocean. It was my only point. |
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I'd also put him in the section "Adult CSV looking for new homes" This thread will drop at some point and there are new people coming to this site. Quote:
Just recently I've heard of a nice young vlcak that started schutzhund trainings with his owner, but didn't "finish the course" ;). Later he was adopted by another family (it was out of life necessity, the owner was devastated she had to part with him). Probably the two factors combined caused that in new situtations he started 'playing the schutzhund game' in the street with accidental pedestrians, which he never did before the trainings :( I also think that CSVs being quiet creatures is their great asset for many owners (including myself:p). What's the point in teaching him barking if you don't know his new owner's prefereneces? Don't treat this as criticizm, as I know little about schutzhund. These are just a few reflections based on common sense and on reading you post .:) |
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http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o...r/pets/Pollux/ Quote:
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Our club is very good and non-political (very few of those here in the USA). They are not DVG or USA affiliated (hence no politics) and their primary focus is on the dog. I've seen clubs try to ruin dogs just so they can justify their own methods and get more $$$ for training and others just flat out refuse dogs into their club that aren't good (or just insult the dog until the owners leave). Quote:
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Why has this puppy this type of collar? Has he any serious problem? Or?....
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Thanks Ed for the explanations.8)
Well, I know quite a few quiet vlcaks :) |
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Whit the tail between the legs I mean, is he very shy ??? If not, I would try to get better photos fast... It´s hard to find a grown Vlcak a good home, even a really good one, if they are shy it is even harder... Can you give us all a smal presentation of how he is ??? Very best regards / Mikael |
Okay, I do not usually wirte here on forum, but this is almost too much, on international forum too....:shock:
First If you want a dog, have thought over it and is ready to take a new family member, then get a Golden Retriever or som other nice pet. If you really are not like all other friends and people, are ready to offer your life, your world for to socialize a little adorable CzW puppy, share moments of love, hate and all in all understanding, think over it not once, not twice, but you should almost be sleepless of worrying am I the right person for this breed. Because there is seldom falut in puppy or young dog, it is in 95% of the cases in the upper end of the leash the problems start. I have followed here Pollux story, from importing, from blackmailing Edit for sending dog, to successful training news and good news. And suddelly he is searching for new home. Has something happend, if he is unpredicatble in your eyes? To EARN the trust of a wolfdog is not like owning a Golden Retriever or some other nice regular pet. Maybe you should think twice to search for him a new home now, because young age, insecure of the whole world, lost home changeing wolfdog is not the best dog to send on to a new home. The pictures tell me he needs time, and that collar, what is that ? Is he a monster or is it beautiful to have lot of chains around dogs neck????? :rock_3 If he is shy, it is your responsibility to give him time, YOU CAN NOT GET A CZ WOLFDOG and think he will be perfect service dog, far from all CzW are suitable for working. And the buyer should have read so much about the breed that they know what dogs these are. This is why I tell people that are interested in this breed for whatever reason, work, family, to get a regular pet, because they do not know anything about them, and if told, some seem not to understand. The ones that come visit me and my dogs several times, spend time, show me that they are "dogpeople, and loves wolves and are able to understand the breed, those are people that could be future puppy buyers.. and even how much you trust puppy buyer and theur sotires bla bla bla.. they can be bad homes. But Somebody helping somebody to get a CzW and has seen maybe only a few dogs of this breed can not know what they are buying. I imported my first CzW without seeing it in february 2007, and I had never seen in real life A CzW. It was not easy, but I was very much prepared for whatever was to come with shy puppy. IT TAKES TIME, some dogs (like people too) develop slower, might need more soft training and a lot of understanding. Today I have 6 CzW, all different in heart and soul, all very kind, and some more good for training, some not at all, but ALL OF THEM ARE BOUGHT TO BE LOVED FAMILY MEMBERS! And each one of them means the world to me ! no matter if little shy or little bit unpredictable in some situations in young age... A Czechoslovakian Wolfdog is in my eyes adult and stabile in the age 3,5-4 years. So dont give up.. This is why my heart breakes when reading these kind of stories on international forum. A lot of dogs change homes, a lot of dogs are beeing put to sleep, because owners do not know what they are buying and breeder make mistake and sell/place puppy to bad homes. And I find that very sad :( But so it is, and nobody is perfect breeder or buyer, I Hope you could be little more mature and give him some time, and remember, that even though you have other dogs that are able to be trained to service dogs, Pollux is also a pet, that needs lot of love and understanding for what he is. Remember he is young, give him time, please think of what a re-homeing again would make him more shy and insecure, it is not easy for all individuals of CzW to trust people, and if he cant have a "home" a safe place where to be relaxed and feel loved, he might maybe never be able to trust people like others. I have re-homed a puppy (1 year) CzW that had lived in bad conditions, and he is today a happy family dog, but will probably forever be very insecure and shy for strangers. And I had him for a few months to see what he was as 11 months old, and I saw potential and understood him, I decided he could move,he was very afraid of everything, even that the sky would fall over him. He could only move to special home, with a girl that has very big heart an a great love for wolves, she understand him, they are now best friends. If I had not found her, I would not have given him away, because it is my responsibility, my dog. But I think regular dog trainer for GSD or other working dog breeds are too hard to understand our sensitive breed. They are not problem dogs, they need understanding and a very strong leader in mind, to be a safe friend if shy. Everything is possible, but please think twice. It is YOUR responsibility. All your writeing about him makes everything so un nessecary WORL WIDE. Isn't it most important to concentrate on the dog, not telling the whole world you have a problem on this so "friendly" forum.............:rock_3 http://i20.servimg.com/u/f20/14/00/08/27/h110.jpg Best Regards, Jenny Finland www.foreverwolf.nettisivu.org |
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Watch the videos of him at schutzhund, you'll see a confident and playful dog. Quote:
Seriously, I'm on the verge of asking the admins to delete this thread. I'm starting to think it was a waste of time asking for help here. |
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Best regards / Mikael PS, that kind of collars are forbidden by law i many EU country´s ( if not all) that is way people are woundering... Here in Sweden it is animal cruelty to use them, if you mean this kind >>> http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&rl...pinch%20collar , DS. |
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http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=18713 Quote:
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Thanks / Mikael |
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oh im sure it stopped it :evil: :evil: re secure collars,i have siberian huskys,escape artists to the extreme! no need for prongs with them...a safe 'racing' collar which doesnt choke or hurt is what i use! or a simple 'head collar' whilst training..pinch are for the lazy( and cruel )that want a quick fix! time, patience,trust and understanding is what dogs need :( |
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i really hope he finds a home with someone that understands him and that he stays there forever this time....i wish you and him luck in doing this. |
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Also, I now hope that the admins DO NOT delete this thread so that when new people come here they'll see the trule colors of the community. We tried to do the right thing and after months of reabilitating Pollux we post that we're looking for a new home and instead of help I get ridiculed and everyting is being analyzed - as well as people making false assumptions about us and Pollux's situation. At least now I know who would be willing to help in the future and who will just compalin. I guess the old saying is true, no good deed goes unpunished. Added: Also, I'm done defending myself. Don't expect a response if you post anything other than help. |
Well, sorry you felt attacked. I think some were really trying to help.
I think, for one, that Pollux ought to be fixed and re-homed with whatever nice pet home you can find - anywhere in the US, or anywhere that wants him and can provide for him, really. Can you really not find a nice home for him? He's a young, healthy (I assume), free dog with some basic training behind him. On top of that he's of a rare breed. Maybe put him on Petfinder. I've found nice homes for many 'less desirable' fosters that way, ones of a common breed (or even mix), old, ill health, etc. I don't think it's especially fair to him to 'hold out' on a new home waiting for one in your area which would be convenient to you, especially since things seem to be getting busy with your other dogs. |
I do feel like I need to jump in here and perhaps clarify the situation. I got Luna from Marcy KNOWING the commitment it takes to raise a dog - Service Dog or not - and KNOWING what my limits are when it comes to how many dogs I can manage in my home.
My friend saw Luna and how amazing she is and wanted one of her own NOW. So yes, despite all of our telling her to take her time and research, she decided on Pollux. In the beginning everything was fine and as she has been training dogs for years, I figured it was the perfect placement - yes, he might be different that she was used to but challenges teach us, right? Well, after a while, she decided she was not interested in working with him any longer and he was relegated to a kennel in the back yard. That is where we came in - I suggested we take him for a while and work with him - FOR A WHILE. I felt responsible for him as I had introduced my friend to the breed and if I could work with him and help him, he could go back to her better off. So he came into our home and I worked him like we work any of our other dogs - some Service Work, some Schutzhund, some Conformation training, etc. He has made some huge strides under our care and training and he is an amazing dog - every achievement makes me proud. But Pollux is not our dog, I have all the dogs I can handle on my own. I WISH I had the time, room, etc., to keep him ourselves, but we don't, and it isn't fair to my other dogs, either. There is a saying here "no good deed goes unpunished" and it's painfully true here - we are trying to do our best by a dog that is not even ours and we are getting attacked for it. It's not our mess to clean up, but he has fallen into our lap and we want to do what is fair for him. Fair for him would be a home where his owners have more time than I do to work him through his issues. At least I will know, personally, where he will go... in someone else's hands, I have no idea where he might be placed. We are Pollux's foster home - we have plenty of experience being "interim" homes for rescue dogs, so your support would be more appreciated than your criticism. We are trying to improve his home situation - don't you think we feel awful having seen his situation deteriorate? I didn't encourage my friend's interest in the breed in order to create a problem - obviously had I any inkling of what would happen, I wouldn't have helped her find him in the first place... but she likely would've found another one on her own, and becasue I feel I am a steward of the breed, it is my duty to try and help a vlcak in need. So go ahead and criticize me if you want, but ask yourselves what you would do in my place... |
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As for Pollux, we are going to hold out for the perfect home for him (and that he's perfect for the home). Yes, we've love it if he was local but if the right home pops up and it's not local then so be it. Vlcaks are not an easy breed and many people think they are busy quickly learn otherwise. They need to realzie that it can be a highly energenic breed with even higher stamina (he and Luna will play for hours and hours!). One advantage of him being local is that my wife would still be able to work on him (training) and they could go to our schutzhund club where they know him and we know they concentrate on the dog's development (and not politics). The home should be willing to work him in schutzhund, even if it is just the play aspect. He loves it and it's been a huge confidence builder for him (and the socalizatrion time doesn't hurt, either). He loves to go to parks where he can run around off a leash (like a dog park) - and he runs fast, faster than many greyhounds we've seen. He loves his people and loves to lie on the couch and cuddle with his people (well, more like like ON TOP of his people, he thinks he's a lot smaller than he actually is). He's michievious (sp?) and knows how to get into trouble so he'll also need a lot of supervision especially in the beginning. He is a lot smarter than he'll lead you to believe, too. |
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ive highlighted the bits of the post of mine you choose to ignore..... i am not being judgemental or a 'lynch mob' i even apologised earlier on in this thread,i understand the situation you are in and it doesn't bear thinking about where pollux would be without you. wont agree with pinch collars though,but as you rightly said thats for another thread :) |
Pollux will stay with us until the right home is found - I am not "holding out" for a more "convenient" home, but rather a local home to be able to help with his adjustment and training, not to mention the fact that I can't do a home check in Idaho.
My biggest worry is that BECAUSE he is a rare breed - and stunningly gorgeous - he will not necessarily attract the right people. At least if he is relatively local, I can sort of keep an eye out and help as needed, or even take him back... I have visions of approving a home in Idaho only for the people to dump him in their local shelter after a month or two... And there are very few folks who could do a home check for me in Idaho and be truthful about the nature of the breed - so few people have experience. He has a place here in our home for now - even though it stretches our ability and I feel badly that he is 1 of 5 dogs instead of 1 of 2 or 3 (he needs to be in a multi-dog home), and he does not lack for attention, love or spoiling (every one of the dogs we have ever boarded or fostered are part of the pack and treated as such). As you have seen - I post his successes such as Schutzhund bitework, etc. I just think we could find him a better home where he would get more than we can give him. We are in no rush to kick him out - I am very selective with homes - and I will make sure it is the best placement for his success - even if it takes months or years to find... He really is an amazing dog and if we weren't already at our limit, I would say he would stay with us forever, but time and space are limited. So thank you to all of you who have supported us and understand our situation - certainly not one I would wish on anyone, but as I feel a certain responsibility to the breed and to Pollux himself, I have taken on this situation... |
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In short, I think there IS a perfect home out there for him.. right now, even. You just have to spread your search out.. yes, there are things about Vlcaks that are different than other dogs (like all dogs), but there are also some first-time dog owners here with Vlcaks and doing fine. :) I think probably it's more a matter of dedication and less a matter of experience ultimately. I would say as advice, to never limit your options! |
Hi Draggar, thank you very much for your answer about collar. I think, if puppy is "soft", more submissive, not so strong in his mind, so using of this collar is very bad reason. I don´t agree with you.
But I thank you for your answer and explain. |
Good to read you're in no rush and will keep him until the right home is found.
Again good luck finding him his forever home. Taz |
We have found him a home and it looks like the details have been worked out. An animal wrangler in California contacted us about him (I guess he was in touch with Pollux's breeder who referred us to him).
We confirmed who he is with our talet agent. He lives on 10+ acres of property, has a staff to work with the dogs, and has other dogs that Pollux will be able to run around and play with. This animal wranger is also migrating from wolf hybrids to vlcaks due to increasingly strict wolf hybrid laws across the USA. APparently he has some big deals in the works to so we'll see if Pollux makes it to the big screen or not. |
Congrats to Pollux!
Pollux will be close to his sister? Does California now have the most Vlcaks in the states? Partha and two other Vlcaks are just a bit south of us in San Diego. There is a Vlcak from Israel here in Los Angeles too, who goes to our same dog park. Quote:
Congratulations again to Pollux! Do you know if he will be in North California or South California? I think there was a lady interested in meeting a Vlcak in North California, but I don't know of any there. |
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I don't know exactly where in CA - my wife worked out all the details.
As for population, I think Americani has quite a few dogs and they're in Texas so it's either TX or CA. I don't know how many BlueSteel has (Nebraska or Oklahoma) and I think Galomy Oak has 3 or 4 vlcaks, maybe one or two more in that state (Virginia). Screentime for dogs isn't always a bad thing. Bengi brought attention to shelter dogs and got people going to shelters instead of puppy stores. As for neutering / breeding - I don't think we have to worry about him being fixed. Who here in the USA would help someone like that fake paperwork to get them reigstered? Plus, if both clubs require parent - puppy DNA testing then it should hinder it even more. |
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Lassie didn't do any bad to collies. Both were popular dogs for a while but you didn't see the issues like you did when Disney re-re-re-re-re-released 101 dalmations (yeah, that was bad!). |
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Think about the past, say, 5 most recent movies about dogs, and think about if they did anything good. I can think of Shibas and Akitas (Hachiko - and it was bad for the breeds), as you said 101 Dalmatians - terrible, Beverly Hills Chihuahua... bad.. well, you understand. :cry: |
True but those are movies about dogs, Game of Thrones isn't about dogs even though they play a part in it. Also, Lassie and Rin Tin TIn both have had movies out over the past few years and the Rin Tin Tin kennel is still active (and they test for DM!!).
The entire first season of True Blood you saw Sam Merlott turning into a collie, that didn't make people rush out and get one - and the collie was about as important as the wolves in Game of Thrones. Santa's Little Helper from the Simpsons - I don't think this ever made a rush for greyhounds except maybe from greyhound rescue (and by then they're adults most of the time). (Yes, he's animated but he's still a 20-something year old greyhound now). The "Buddies" movies - I don't think they made a rush on those puppies either. The Patriot didn't make a rush on Great Danes, and the same with Buck from Married w/ Children and Brandon the Wonder Dog from Punky Brewster. There have been plenty of times where movies with dogs (not movies about dogs) and TV shows didn't do a lot of bad about the breed. I'm sure there are many other factors involved. I don't think there is a huge demand for Northern Inuit dogs now (or is there?). |
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That Jack Russel from that sitcom made JRTs popular.. Well, good for optimistic thinking, I guess. I should try it sometimes. |
http://www.scvanimals.com/Home_Page.html
That's the guy that emailed me. No, my concern would be that he refers to training and sales of trained animals. You say he's moving away from using hybrids (and I honestly know nothing about the man, he could be, hopefully is, a great person!)...I guess I just realize that sometime's people's intentions change? A neuter is a guarantee. ;) ***eh, maybe not sales. Just misinterpreted "provide" and "suppliers" the wrong way, I guess. Just a country girl. Hollywood lingo is foreign to me. :) |
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A wrangler in enterainment is someone who manages the animals on set. They're also commonly the lead trainer and handler, too (especially for smaller productions). The three terms (wrangler, trainer, handler) are often interchanged in entertainment, too. |
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People, what are all these congratulations about??? So the dog has a new owner, who will own him together with many other dogs!!! I am sure that if Pollux were a GSD or some other "non-exotic" dog breed, he would not be so interesting for this person! Wolfdog needs a HOME, not a person just to feed and train him! He needs someone to pet him, to talk to him, to simply LOVE him... Sorry, but this is tragic, I don't understand this. I hope you will still neuter Pollux. Tfu, I hope breeders here in Europe will start thinking before selling puppies to USA :shock: Pollux example is more than enought... I am sorry for all these nice people who own, love, breed CSV in USA, but... this case is.. scary... :roll: |
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She dreamed to have his wolfdog in her mothers' garden as she live in a flat. According to her, the breeder stop of talk with her when she asked him to lower the price of the dog due the high transport price. The woman live about 2500 km of me, she phoned me and I told her to adopt an adult easy mediun size mutt, she bought an Wippeth and has several problems in live with him yet. I would like to ask all european breeder a bit of RESPECT to non-european breeders and to the dogs they breed. If this dog had been owned by her, she would give up of him at the first week, she would have called me to come and pick up the pup, I would not have heart to do nothing and see a CzW get abandoned or die in our precarious shelters, then I would have to travel for 4 days only for pick up a dog which should never had been sent to her. |
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In Spain there was also an case of a dog which was imported from Czech Republic, the dog was too hard for owners' experience and ended up attacking the wife of the owner, I contacted the breeder warning him about the dangerous situation, nothing was done, for what I know the dog has been put to sleep.
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Guess I am in the minority here....so Pollux is being sold to breed from? :evil:
The dogs that were 'aquired' for game of thrones from here ,most of them ended up in rescue centres.....given up to 'GOF' because they were unwanted and surplus to their breeders!!! |
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A dog with his described temperament being happy working in a movie/tv set environment...you've got to be joking. Yes he may look the part, but will he be happy playing it?
Is the new owner prepared to put in the time to work with him to make sure he can handle that environment, or will he be trained in the new home environment, taken to the shooting location/s and just be expected to perform? What happens if he doesn't make the grade? doesn't respond to the training? freeks out on set? what will this guy do with him if he is deemed to be useless? What it appears Pollux needs is a home where he will be given time, patience, understanding and love. I maybe and indeed hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't sound like that is what is being offered here. Taz |
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When I took on my boy (who admittedly is very Saarloos like - and all that goes with that!!) Mum was thrilled we would have a dog like this on our books.....until she realised how little he could cope with being treated like a prop. Dogs need a rock solid temperament and the ability to repeat things over and over, not to mention being handed off to strangers and expected to look like they 'belong'...... Sounds great doesn't it. :roll: |
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At least, if this guy already owns/trains wolfdog/hybrids, he should have some idea of the challenge he maybe about to take on. Taz |
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I never mentioned anything about Pollux being happy about it, I already said before he wouldn't be.
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Pollux has a way of surprising people and the real Pollux is coming out more and more every day, one stride at a time. For example:
Yesterday was the American Independence Day and a very common way to celebrate it is to set off fireworks. Fireworks are everything most dogs would hate, they're loud, they can be heard from a long distance away, they're a quick and loud POP, a bright light (if close enough), and unpredictable. I decided to give the dogs their final walks for the evening around 8PM, it was still light out so most people wouldn't have started by then. (It was either that or wait until midnight when the fireworks tone down or 2-3AM when they stop (and I leave for work at 6am). I walked Pollux first knowing he would be affected by it the most. I was wrong, he wasn't to affected by it at all. Most of it was medium popping and some flashes that didn't even phase Pollux. If there was a flash he'd look up as if he was thinking "What is that, it looks like a fun toy!". A few M80's were set off near us (1/4 stick of dynamite) which all he did was look up (as if surprised), looked around, and then went on with what he was doing before (sniffing, etc.). I walked Luna next and he didn't waste any time, she did her business and pulled me back into the house. This is one instance where he did better than she did. As for where Pollux is going, the person ha acres of open land where Pollux can run around with the other dogs. He also has a lot of experience with wolf hybrids so a vlcak, even one with Pollux's temperament issues, should be a step down from what he's used to (like going from working line malinois to show line GSDs, perhaps, but maybe not as extreme?). He is a trainer and will be able to dedicate the time Pollux needs. I think there are only two people on this forum who can honestly claim they've seen the real Pollux come out. We think the exposure he'll get in CA will help bring that out even faster. |
I think that the title 'trainer' should be taken with a grain of salt in all situations. After all, being a trainer alone doesn't automatically qualify one for much of anything.
Besides, whom among us who has ever had any dog (or animal..), is also not a 'trainer'? I don't really care about how much land he has or how much experience he has with wolf mixes, being that neither are prerequisites for happily owning a dog, but I do wonder how many animals he has if he has a staff of 10 to take care of them, and how well a domesticated animal meant for human companionship such as a dog would do there. I would think that dogs would be happiest in a household that would take them to eat ice cream on their birthdays, go on long walks everyday, train for whatever they were bred to do, play at the parks, and sleep in their owners' beds at night. For Pollux' sake I'll hope that this is where he finds himself, although I'm not certain he will. PS. I also don't like the whole overnight breeder factor either, and I think it's a terrible start for Vlcaks in the states to have just anyone out to breed dogs who has probably not even met more than 1 representative of the breed. |
I bothered to read the old threads about Pollux:
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14024 http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14211 and have one simple question: why haven't you, Draggar and Lunasmom, learnt anything from the lesson? People who had much more experince with vlcaks were warning you and your friend about the possible consequences of hasty purchase of a pup from the first litter available and from a breeder who wasn't even sure which pup she had forwarded to the USA: Puck or Pollux :twisted:. You didn't bother to listen - you answers were arrogant and showed the "I know better" attitude with masses of self-advertising. I was surprised, that as dog trainers, on Pollux arrival neither you, nor your knowledgeable friend could correctly interpret the pup's obvious behaviour signals described, but I hoped you knew what you were doing. Unfortunately the developments showed you advisors were right: Pollux is still unsettled and the situation repeats: Again people who have more exeperinece with vlcaks, their raising, training, rehoming, developmental patterns, etc. are kindly advising you not to send him to a place where he'll be exposed to further stresses and to someone who will expect from him things he might not fulfil. These people have no personal interest in where the dog will live, just like they had no personal interest which puppy Sioban would have eventually picked - they're only trying to help. My question is: why don't you guys listen to them? Why do you again reject their opinions and advice? Why do you again practise wishful thinking? :evil: |
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(Posted by Draggar) I do to, the whole future of "American lined" CSVs are at stake here. Pollux is a very good looking dog and his temperament isn't as much of a factor (being the male) since typically 75% of the temperament comes from the mother (and raising). If he's a mix we'd need to know ASAP but I think right now my wife has decided to not use him in any breeding for now until more facts come out. |
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Pollux doesn't need acres to run free, he needs home. Usually experienced trainers or breeders say, that no dog needs acres to run free - in such cases dogs become "stupid". Every dog needs a walk with a master, not running free. Draggar, you say you are a dog trainer, so are you the one who doesn't know some simple things about dogs, or are you the one, who doesn't care? P.S. Last week had a walk with a really experienced Irish setter breeder (if "expeerienced" is not enought, a male from her kennel is twice a World Winner) and once again an experienced person told me, she would rather sell a dog to a small flat, than a house with a yard. |
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We took Pollux out of a neglectful situation and brought him into our home. Even though it was supposed to be temporary, we treated him and loved him as if he was one of our own. Quote:
Pollux hasn't even been registered wiht UKC or AKC yet, he was shown with a temporary ID (I don't even know where the paperwork is - I am not even sure if his owner got them yet). So even if he does sell the puppies it will be very hard to keep them in any vlcak program here in the USA w/o being registered. Quote:
As for the home he's going to - that was the owner's call. We just screened the appliants (for the lack of a better term). Yes, he has acrage but Pollux isn't going to be out there 24-7. The person he's going to said that he wants to keep the dogs in his house with him. Pollux also loves to run around and play with other dgs - we see this whenever we go to the dog park. His grin goes from ear to ear and he will go on for hours running with the other dogs. I am willing to bet that there will also be a lot of dog to human interaction since the dogs he has are used for film (in film they have to work with humans, even if the part isn't with humans). |
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My goodness, where has logic and common sense went gone? What kind of thinking is this to befit a so-called 'founder' of a breed club in foundation? Quote:
Though I guess you being extremely happy over this placement already means that. I hope that if your club becomes the national UKC club, that members get to vote for positions. Hopefully most will read this rubbish written here and decide that you're not fit to head a breed club which purports to look out for the welfare of the dogs and the breed. Not registering the litters does not in fact make it better, and selling puppies altered also does not make it better. |
Oh, let's put words in other people's mouths! I love this game!!
So, what you're saying is a ranch owner who breeds their own herding dogs and doesn't bother with registration and then sells the dogs that doesn't make the cut neutered / spayed to pet homes are destroying the breeds, too? How about a police department who has their own breeding kennel and does the same with ther dogs that don't make the cut - are they destorying the breed too? These are all working kennels and NOT just back yard breeders who want to mass-produce puppies to just sell. They breed dogs for WORK and if you think all dogs bred in working kennels make it to work you are living in some far off fantasy land. Or do you think people shouldn't breed dogs for working ability and just breed pets to fill the demand for what's popular? Sounds more like you're the one who supports mills and back yard breeders. As long as they have papers according to you! If you truly think that way, go have a chat with the Hunte Corp and see what that mentality can lead to. Don't forget to ask about his incinerator or the 18-wheelers he gets! Quote:
His owner is still his owner, we were supposed to be made co-owners when his registration went though but it never did. Our "legal" standing is very small right now. We dobn't have the money to take her to court or even hire a lawyer. It's funny how people can shout LAWSUIT LAWSUIT when they know very little about the actual situation. Also, all I see from you is complain, complain, and complain yet you didn't offer one bit of help yet you act like you know everything. I don't see any posts in this thread offering REAL help nor do I see any PMs from you offering help, just complaints about how we handled the situation. But, since we're playing your game: Quote:
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Also, I'm not the one who insinuated that breeders today think that dogs are disposable and have "less brains": Quote:
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I'll bite.
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Oh and BTW making dogs for movies isn't comparable to police or ranch work. That also still doesn't answer the question: WHY, as a person involved in the breed club, would you support ANY UNREGISTERED production of dogs. This is not about whether or not "registration is all that matters" or not. Quote:
Anyway, even if the puppies were registered, doesn't make it better either. Quote:
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I guess a couple of things don't make sense to me with that guy (if it is the same guy in the website).
1. In my interpretation, it has become easier in many places to own "hybrid" wolfdogs, since their reclassification as a species and also since many states now list ALL wolfdogs as a "domestic" animal. Even the vaccination controversy has simmered down considerably. Also, that guy says he obtains permits and works with the USDA, and works with other exotic species too - all the necessary framework you'd need as a professional, I imagine. I don't really understand his argument that it is becoming more difficult to work with hybrids. In any case, I think it will only be a matter of time, unfortunately, before insurance companies, localities, etc. get wind of our breed - probably through an incompetent owner - and they are added to the "dangerous dog breed list", only a slight step up from the legalities of hybrid ownership. 2. I'm not sure who the "kennel you don't like is", or the female who he plans to breed with. My understanding of working with animals, canines specifically, is that there is usually a set of them, with each dog having specific strengths and weaknesses in acting, that all look somewhat similar. Different dogs are used for different shots, all representing the same "character". I imagine animation does a lot now too. It would seem a trainer would want animals from different backgrounds - some with a background strong for being social. I'd think it would make more sense to obtain dogs from different litters - not the same litter based off of at least one shy parent? Hopefully he doesn't plan to pull the pups from the dam at 10 days as many hybrid breeders advocate. 3. There is the ethical standpoint. I can't agree with breeding dogs en masse for commercial reasons (not including service work or civil/military protection, where there is a waiting list for "extras"), even if they are a closed population. That's probably my biggest problem that I have come to see in "the working sport dog" world as well...dogs are really a commodity. If the trainer doesn't see a world champion, he implores you to buy a different dog, or sell the one you've got. The home itself...maybe it will be ok for Pollux, no more of a risk than any other new home, I guess, in terms of the wrangler's honesty, integrity and ability. But the breeding part...that scares me. Siobhan herself tells in the bio on her website how pro-humane shelter she is. Working in that environment, she must have seen the desperation that goes on there as a result of commercial breeding. Does she have an alter ego? I am very proud of the ownership and home that you and Sara have provided for my Luna. If there is any way our rescue can help Pollux out (I didn't realize it had gotten to this stage), please let me know. I even have some space at my home if you need a respite. |
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Its all one big cop out!!!! Where is the love of the breed??? Imo it seems to be more about having a rare breed... dogs don't seem to be loved family members but commodities!!! Pleas let GalomyOak foster Pollux and hopefully find him a loving home so our breed is not also damned in your country too! And if not why not? |
OK, OK... since *I* am the one who actually spoke to the Animal Wrangler/Trainer, I feel the need to clarify a few things...
First, I did want to point out to Marcy (and thank you for the offer of respite!) that some states (Florida is one of them) considers wolf-dog crosses to be exotic animals and you need a permit. Not every state considers them domestic dogs. The FL law was recently changed and is, unfortunately, very UNCLEAR - stating that if the dog looks like a wolf it is to be treated as such and the same requirements of ownership apply (specific enclosures, etc.). We have since joined the FL Lupine Assn to try to lobby against this unfair legal definition. Technically, I can "prove" my vlcaks are not wolf-dog crosses (not recently, anyway) but visually, Pollux looks like a wolf. Period. Speaking with the wrangler, a lot of his work is also international - a LOT easier to work with domestic dog breed laws as opposed to exotic species laws, so I find no fault in his desire to have a vlcak "wolf pack". Better for the actual work, too, as they are certainly more amenable to training than a wolf-dog. His intent is simply to replace the wolf-dogs that he currently has, as they are about 10 and a half years old, and with a more consistant gene pool, it's a better bet to get the "look" he wants, rather than "experimenting" with another wolf-to-some-dog-breed mix. He is not looking to produce puppies for sale - he is looking for wolf-looking dogs he can use for animal Talent. I have no problem with this. Personally I feel we have a working breed, and as such, it is more fulfilling to the individual to WORK. Yes, being a pet in our home is nice - he gets cuddled and spoiled and loved. But he also has a lot of energy and we live in a townhouse in an urban area - though I take the dogs to parks, etc., to run off their energy, it would be better, IMHO, for a dog like Pollux to have a LOT of room to just run full-out and play and wrestle with other dogs. I also am THRILLED that someone who has a LOT of experience with actual wolf-dog and wolf behavior is going to work him - I think that is a perfect fit. Pollux instinctively does not like being in an urban environment. He will often display neurotic behaviors if he is cooped up longer than normal (if it is a day of constant thunderstorms) I think 10 acres to run on and get exhausted would be healthier for him. Pollux is still here currently - the wrangler has not contacted us regarding getting him shipped - perhaps he has reconsidered and Pollux will end up staying here. Again, I am not in a rush - he is welcome to stay here indefinitely. I just think that his going out and being a working acting animal with someone who intimiately understands his behavior is perfect. As I mentioned before, I think a working dog should WORK. It brings confidence - especially to those who need a little bit more. This thread seems to have gone off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the facts. His owner found that she didn't want him and was looking to sell him. We took him in so he would be in a home rather than out in a kennel in her yard until a good home could be found. There was no abuse - lots of dogs are kennel dogs - we just felt it would be better for him to be in a home. From the beginning it was intended to be a "foster" situation - I already have a vlcak, not to mention a GSD and 2 Malinois - and having another dog takes time away from them - the dogs *I* chose to be in my life. I don't have unlimited time, money or energy - or space. I need to make sure that I am fair to my dogs - they all have or have had, a job. All my dogs work doing something, and I have goals in regards to working and titling them. A needy dog like Pollux takes a good deal of time and effort to continually work... is that fair to my other dogs? IS it fair to Pollux? Personally, I think it would be better for him to be in a situation where he gets more time being trained and socialized. The wrangler has 2 other trainers working for him - Pollux would have even more attention, not to mention lots of other dogs to interact with, and people who understand him and do not expect him to be a Golden Retriever, like a lot of "pet" people assume he should be. He will be worked around his instinctive shyness, rather than coddled for it. This placement is NOT a "pet" placement - in fact I am happier about placing him in this sort of scenario as opposed to a "pet" situation - I feel it is the perfect environment for him to mature and blossom. I spoke to the wrangler at length, and I have been involved in placing rescues since I started in dogs back in 1991 - I do not have reservations about Pollux's future if he does end up going there. No, he may not get to share an ice cream cone with his handler, but I think the trade-off will be better for him. |
If u loved the breed u would at least neuter him before u let him go and not allow willy nilly breeding from him!
Being used once in a while for films etc is not working!! U are kidding yourselves! |
As I mentioned above, it isn't "willy nilly" breeding. You also have no idea what you are talking about, obviously, in regards to working theatrical animals. Most of my dogs have worked doing theatrical projects - my dogs have been in product demonstration videos as well as in soap operas, TV shows, etc. Having dogs trained to that level is not only daily work in training various behaviors, but keeping them in prime condition, and doing the actual work. Funny that the actual time they are in front of the cameras is miniscule in comparison to all the background work done to get them to that point. So, yes, it is work.
And I am more than happy to see Pollux go to that wrangler. He will blossom there. And as an aside, I do not have the ability to neuter him - that is his owner's decision - and personally I do not feel that neutering him would be beneficial to his temperament, either. For Pollux, I think a little bit of testosterone is a good thing. I am more concerned about his psychological welfare than an unfounded fear that he will be bred "willy-nilly." |
How is being in films 'working' any more then obedience venues are 'working'? Please, it's probably more akin to a sport and so I see no reason why a pet family who happens to like obedience, rally, agility, etc, would be a lesser placement.
:flop There's still no reason to justify creating possible mixes or contributing a dog to a person who doesn't have much CsV experience to breed with. Even if this is for his own use, it doesn't seem justified since there are such a vast array of good dogs to pick from anyway out there. If I didn't know much about the breed, pedigrees, breeding, etc, then I would simply buy another from a breeder who does. As for the need for testosterone? Vasectomy. It exists for dogs too. |
Oh dear,do you think u have the only dogs used for that? My own csv is on books and I know exactly what training goes into it....and mine are all trained without torture devices.
Lol methinks this guy wouldn't buy a neutered dog and that's the real reason u won't neuter him first! Its more about fame it seems that and the dollar not the love of the breed,let alone the love for poor Pollux |
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beter shoot this dog :lol::twisted::twisted::twisted: |
I know you mentioned that you might like to breed from him. Has this guy offered you a pup if he breeds?
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11-05-2010, 21:42:
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