Wolfdog.org forum - View Single Post - Géméhtouès des Loups de l'Ostrevent dite Edora

admin · 27-05-2011, 15:57

Mixes

First remember:
A Czechoslovakian Wolfdog can be called ONLY a dog which comes from the dogs registered during the founding of the Czechoslovakian Breed Club in 1982 - dog which ALL ancestors were registered by the CsW Club.
It means: all other crosses (with Malamute, Saarloos, Wolf and American Wolf), all dogs found "in the forest", all dogs with "empty" pedigrees ARE NOT Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. The are Wolfdogs but do not belong to the breed registered by FCI - even if because of any reason they get the pedigrees.

At the moment there is first DNA test results which proved that a French dog coming from a famous French kennel is a Saaarloos-CzW mix. It is 100% sure. All dog from this line are already marked as "Saarloos_MIX".

There are 100% known mixes in Italy - offisprings of white tundra wolf frossed with Malamute-GSD-alike_mix and later with CsW. The dogs wrere removed from Czech Republic and banned by the Czech Club - because of it they were smuggled to Italy and a bred there by some dishonest breeders. All the dogs are marked as "Saarloos_alike_MIX"

The offsprings of the Finish mixes with the Wolf smuggled from Czech Republic are marked as (!!!_MIX_!!!).

We have already information from a very serious (official) source which confirmed the doubts about other mixes among the French Wolfdogs. At the moment there are no official steps done against the breeders and owner are the whole thing is serious - in European Union it is forbidden to keep illegal wolf mixes F1-F4. Especially that the wolf is an protected specie. Every animal like this needs CITES card - in other case the animal will be taken away from the owner. In some countries keeping wolf crosses are illegal even with such card.
You can be angry about Wolfdog.org but believe me - many people are trying to solve the problem in peace. First - because if we will do it official it can damage the breed and some countries can forbid breeding CsW even if the there are only 3-lines of illegal crosses. Second - if we make it official the dog will be taken away from the owners and almost for sure they will be put down. Also the owners will have really serious problems with the law.
Because of it will try to solve the whole story "between" us - without asking for help of the official departments responsible for such cases.

Doz is a wolf cross coming from Finland. It was already confirmed by the people from Czech Republic. I can not publish you more info but you all have the proofs in the front of you eyes: you all a wolfdog owners and you know that the basic characteristic of Wolfdogs is that puppies (offsprings) have a lot similarities with the parents, grand parents, grand-grandparents, a.s.o. Some dogs (which are crosses) do not apply it - they look totally different.

Here is the photo of the mother of Doz which come from a genetic VERY strong line of Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs:

Do you see ANY similarity between her and her "daughter":

or other puppies from this line?

Of course there are none. Nothing is similar - the offspring look like a different breed. Do you really do not see it? Do you really believe in the lie about "perfect work of French breeders"?

As I understand you wrote some angry words - but it is as I wrote you: the Saarloos crosses from France are already DNA proven. The wolf crosses are confirmed by very serious cynologist from France and from Czech Republic.
What wonder me is: you are criticizing Wolfdog.org for making it public but I do not see any breeders which criticize the mentioned breeders for producing puppies with false pedigrees. Is it OK for you? Cheating is allowed? Do you see nothing wrong on it?

Anyway - there are no official steps done till now. You have the possibility and time to stop it. And remember - in Czech Republic there was done an official sience work done on the Prague University which tested genetic of Saarloos, Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs and German Shepherd Dogs. It is already possible to check if an animal is a purebreed CsW or if it is a cross with an other breed. Even if there are 10 or 20 generations gone from the false mating.
If you will not stop it now and the mixes will spread among the French population it can come the time when the DNA test will be done and there will be proofs that one or two of the French line is a Malamute-American Wolf-CsW mix (as we can observe it now) and it will not affect 20-30 dogs like today but it can cause that the whole French pupulation will be marked as "not purebreed" wolfdogs (or simple said "!!!MIXES!!!"). It is only your choice what you will make about it. We will collect the information about all French mixes. One day the after the DNA test all the LINES will be marked as "Saarloos_alike_MIXES" (what they areally are).

27-05-2011, 15:57	#58
admin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 583	Mixes First remember: A Czechoslovakian Wolfdog can be called ONLY a dog which comes from the dogs registered during the founding of the Czechoslovakian Breed Club in 1982 - dog which ALL ancestors were registered by the CsW Club. It means: all other crosses (with Malamute, Saarloos, Wolf and American Wolf), all dogs found "in the forest", all dogs with "empty" pedigrees ARE NOT Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. The are Wolfdogs but do not belong to the breed registered by FCI - even if because of any reason they get the pedigrees. At the moment there is first DNA test results which proved that a French dog coming from a famous French kennel is a Saaarloos-CzW mix. It is 100% sure. All dog from this line are already marked as "Saarloos_MIX". There are 100% known mixes in Italy - offisprings of white tundra wolf frossed with Malamute-GSD-alike_mix and later with CsW. The dogs wrere removed from Czech Republic and banned by the Czech Club - because of it they were smuggled to Italy and a bred there by some dishonest breeders. All the dogs are marked as "Saarloos_alike_MIX" The offsprings of the Finish mixes with the Wolf smuggled from Czech Republic are marked as (!!!_MIX_!!!). We have already information from a very serious (official) source which confirmed the doubts about other mixes among the French Wolfdogs. At the moment there are no official steps done against the breeders and owner are the whole thing is serious - in European Union it is forbidden to keep illegal wolf mixes F1-F4. Especially that the wolf is an protected specie. Every animal like this needs CITES card - in other case the animal will be taken away from the owner. In some countries keeping wolf crosses are illegal even with such card. You can be angry about Wolfdog.org but believe me - many people are trying to solve the problem in peace. First - because if we will do it official it can damage the breed and some countries can forbid breeding CsW even if the there are only 3-lines of illegal crosses. Second - if we make it official the dog will be taken away from the owners and almost for sure they will be put down. Also the owners will have really serious problems with the law. Because of it will try to solve the whole story "between" us - without asking for help of the official departments responsible for such cases. Doz is a wolf cross coming from Finland. It was already confirmed by the people from Czech Republic. I can not publish you more info but you all have the proofs in the front of you eyes: you all a wolfdog owners and you know that the basic characteristic of Wolfdogs is that puppies (offsprings) have a lot similarities with the parents, grand parents, grand-grandparents, a.s.o. Some dogs (which are crosses) do not apply it - they look totally different. Here is the photo of the mother of Doz which come from a genetic VERY strong line of Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs: Do you see ANY similarity between her and her "daughter": or other puppies from this line? Of course there are none. Nothing is similar - the offspring look like a different breed. Do you really do not see it? Do you really believe in the lie about "perfect work of French breeders"? As I understand you wrote some angry words - but it is as I wrote you: the Saarloos crosses from France are already DNA proven. The wolf crosses are confirmed by very serious cynologist from France and from Czech Republic. What wonder me is: you are criticizing Wolfdog.org for making it public but I do not see any breeders which criticize the mentioned breeders for producing puppies with false pedigrees. Is it OK for you? Cheating is allowed? Do you see nothing wrong on it? Anyway - there are no official steps done till now. You have the possibility and time to stop it. And remember - in Czech Republic there was done an official sience work done on the Prague University which tested genetic of Saarloos, Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs and German Shepherd Dogs. It is already possible to check if an animal is a purebreed CsW or if it is a cross with an other breed. Even if there are 10 or 20 generations gone from the false mating. If you will not stop it now and the mixes will spread among the French population it can come the time when the DNA test will be done and there will be proofs that one or two of the French line is a Malamute-American Wolf-CsW mix (as we can observe it now) and it will not affect 20-30 dogs like today but it can cause that the whole French pupulation will be marked as "not purebreed" wolfdogs (or simple said "!!!MIXES!!!"). It is only your choice what you will make about it. We will collect the information about all French mixes. One day the after the DNA test all the LINES will be marked as "Saarloos_alike_MIXES" (what they areally are).