Quote:
Originally Posted by furyos
bien au contraire .. souhaiteriez vous croiser des clt CANICHE a terme dans notre cheptel ?????.. perso pas vraiment ..
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I'm sorry but I do not have time to write something bigger (I will make it later). But your words wonder me... You
already have the "CANICHE" in France. Expecially you...
Do you want to remove all "problematic" dogs from French breeding? Do you really want to remove ALL offsprings of Orlik (he was a typical "caniche")?
You posted as example the dog on the photo but much better example for this topic would be (beside the photos posted by Nebulosa) the photo of the father of Ossa -
Fallko Kollárov dvor. He is pretty known dog in Czech Republic and Slovakia because even the short hairs on his head were curly...
Look - the true is that the line in France with the highest number of "curly coat genes" is Crying Wolf-line (because of strong inbreed on Orlik- he was a real "sheep" and one of the main sources for curly coat by CLC). Even if the curly hair is "hidden" . And it is a base line in your kennel. And you have no problem with breeding dogs from this line and even with making stronger inbreed on Orlik... So why such words and such topic? Because the dog comes from other kennel?
I really do not understand such way of criticizing other breeders...
In the fact what is said openly about something (Gérard - huge plus for you as breeder!) is much better that breeding with dogs with hidden problems...
And instead of attacking (even on hidden way) others maybe it would be better to discuss the problems and the ways of breeding?
furyos, You say you would not use dogs with curly hair problems in the line. So why you breed with Ossa and Volos?
I'm just curious because this and you words I quoted contradict each other....
And are just hypocrisy....
I don't want to attack you but for me your words have nothing to do with trying to improve the breeding, speaking about the ways and technics of breeding but only an excuse to attack other breeder...
What is the truth? Sure we must pay attention to the problems and try to fight with it. I wrote before that no good breeder in the origin country will make strong inbreed on Orlik - exactly because of the coat problem - with such inbreed you make the "problem coat genes" stronger. That's one thing.
Second - dogs with problematic coat are marked during the bonitation (and breeders do not mate two dogs with the same problems). And dogs which have huge coat problem get P14. But it is only in Czech Republic and Slovakia. In France, Hungary, Germany, Italy and Poland nobody follow it... You just see the photos which in many cases lie...
Other thing - nobody exclude such dogs (if the problem is small) because the type of coat come in the most cases with very good structure of the hair (in many cases better than by other lines) and many offprings of such dogs have very nice rich hair...
If you don't want to use "caniche" dogs .... It is your decision - you can make it but as I wrote:
1) it is a hypocrisy (see above
)
2) it make no sense because if you make good connection the offspring will be totally OK when it comes to the hair (and dog from your kennel are the best example).
We have the same experiences - one of our friends mated her female with a male with such curly hair (she decided to do this because of the exceptional character of the dog and great body).
Result: ALL puppies have normal hair (+ the great character and high size of the father).
The same made Edith in 'Crying Wolf' - despite of the curly hair she decided to breed with Fallko and thanks to this we have such great dog as for example Galiba (and you have Ossa, Vally and Volos
).
So do you really STILL want to say using dogs with ANY signs of more open hair are a mistake?