CzW ownership in UK - Page 4

oblivion · 20-01-2005, 16:23

pet passports are titled "passport for small animals" so they're not dog-specific (any cat, fox, wolf can get it as well).. although there are lines like "species:" and "breed:", as long as an F1 cross can get a dog show result (cac - ave lupo mutara), it can also get a pet passport with "species: dog; breed: csw".. but shhh.. ;o)

michaelundinaeichhorn · 20-01-2005, 18:30

The EU-passport was created for the new EU travelscheme, that mentions cats, dogs and ferrets. It is called pet-passport in Germany. It is not for wolves and other non-pets.
Ina

Dharkwolf · 20-01-2005, 22:38

Ina is absolutely correct, the reason why pet passports are a good example to give to DEFRA is because they are defined by Commission Decision 2003/803/EC and it is clearly stated that they are to be called "Pet passport" and yet "apply only to pet animals of the species dogs, cats and ferrets." (Incidentally there is your legal basis for saying that Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs are legally of the "dog" ie Canis familiaris species.) That is the sort of thing you need to point out in the cover letter.

I apologize to all those who are not interested for the legal jargon (though some might find interesting exactly how a pet passport is supposed to look like).

Anyhow... cheers.

Dhark

Mosi · 26-01-2005, 00:41

okie dokie I also have something to show, a friend of my wrote a very very well worded email about a week or two ago, the original:

Mr. Adams,

I am contacting you at the suggestion of the Defra website. I have been
studying the keeping of wild animals as pets and have found the
legislation on the subject somewhat confusing, particularly where a
certain breed of dog is concerned.

The breed in question is called the Ceskoslovensky Vlcak, or
Czechoslovakian Wolf Dog. This breed was founded in 1955 by crossing
German Shepard Dogs to Carpathian Wolves. The final out cross of the
breed to a Wolf was made in 1983.

Would this breed, which has not seen new wolf blood in 22 years still
considered a Wolf-Hybrid, or would you class it as a domestic dog?

Thanks,
Kelly

Reply!:
Dear Mrs Kelly

Thank you for your e-mail I apologise for the delay in replying.

The Dangerous Wild Animals Act regulates the keeping of certain kinds of
dangerous wild animals. The Act aims to ensure that where private
individuals keep dangerous wild animals they do so in circumstances
which create no risk to the public and safeguard the welfare of the
animals. It does not prohibit keeping of such animals entirely but
requires such keeping to be licensed.
In answer to your query about the Czechoslovakian Wolf Dog, all species
of the family Canidae are covered by the Act unless they are
specifically excepted such as Canis familiaris, the domestic dog. In
Defra's opinion, any generation of wolf-dog "hybrid" with wolf in its
ancestry falls within Canidae but cannot be classified as Canis
familiaris, the domestic dog, and therefore continues to be covered by
the Act. Licensing and enforcement relating to this Act is a matter for
the relevant local authority, so each local authority is able to decide
if it wishes to consider animals as domestic dogs if perhaps they are
many generations removed from the wild species and essentially
indistinguishable from a domestic dog. Please note that the Act refers
to "species" rather than "breeds", so it is the species which should be
considered in interpreting the Act.
If you are keeping wolf-dog hybrids of any generation then I recommend
you contact your local authority to see whether it considers that the
animals concerned should be licensed. Otherwise you could leave yourself
open to possible commission of an offence.
You may be interested to know that we have been reviewing the Act and a
consultation paper proposing various amendments to the Act was published
earlier this year (a copy can be found at
http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/co...-two/index.htm). This
included amendments to species listed on the Act's Schedule, developed
with advice from a panel of experts. However, the consultation proposals
did not put forward any plans to change the Schedule in respect of wolf
hybrids. The consultation period has now closed and we are underway on
developing advice to Ministers on the next steps. However, you are
welcome to submit information on wolf-dog hybrids if you would like it
to be taken into account.

Any help?
Kelly also wants to help

shes asking to rally information and support,
"KitsufoxINC: In fact, if you want to lobby them for iinformation for me to send in my reply, I'm happy to help support a responibly created wolf-blooded dog breed and help to ensure that they're never unfairly prosecuted with the leagle system."
her email is [email protected]

nevada · 22-08-2005, 10:01

Hello,
I live in France and I would like to know if Wolfdog are awlowed in the UK?
If yes, what are the condition and reglementation for the owner of a Wolfdog?
If any are they many CSV in UK?

Thanks

Koos · 22-08-2005, 10:29

Hello,

If you followed this forum, than you can notice, that, as far as I know, the CW is not allowed in the UK, because of the rules of the DEFRA, till now.

Maybe, you can look back in this forum and you will get a lot of information about that.

greetings,

Letty

Dharkwolf · 22-08-2005, 20:27

Actually technically wolfdogs are allowed in the UK, however they fall under the Dangerous and Wild animals act...

That means that they have to spend their lives in a cages, are never allowed to go out and are not allowed to breed. Furthermore in order to even consider having one you will have to demonstrate your ability to handle wild animals so as to get the right permits, as well as having the adequate facilities available for having such animals.

It's ridiculous, but those are the rules. Apparently things are slightliy different from burough to burough, but honestly who would want to keep a wolfdog in such a way?

michaelundinaeichhorn · 23-08-2005, 10:31

Actually there are some signs that things may change. I got a mail from a friend in GB that knows the kennel club quite well. DEFRA has contacted the Kennel Club for a statement for the breed. It seems that some people in the Kennel Club and not DEFRA are against registration because they consider them as to difficult for GB !?! I wrote a statement that nobody in Europe understands this point of view, that there hasn´t been a wolf crossed in for over 20 years and that there are a lot of family dogs and even rescue dogs in this breed. My statement has gone to the person looking for informations about the breed in the Kennel club, how things will end up - I don´t know. At least there has been some movement.

Regards Ina

*myschievous* · 23-09-2005, 15:54

Hi

That's very interesting...I live in the UK and I'm looking forward to the day that the restrictions are lifted...

Hopefully if anyone has any more news they will post it

I'm trying to keep updated on this situation.

Dharkwolf · 10-11-2005, 20:57

First of all welcome Samatha! It's always good to see a fly hopping off the wall and coming in to join us.

Secondly - people have written to DEFRA in the past (most notably Paul from the Masai Rottveiler Rescue) and they have certainly gotten answers to their comments. Some of the things which DEFRA has said in their letters:

- The ban in the UK is linked to a large extent to the Swedish and Norwegian ban.

- Pet passports are not considered proof that a CSW is not a wolf (personally I would challenge that but lets drop it for now)

- The wolfblood content of the CSW is a problem. There is the opinion of an expert (from the London Zoo) that any animal with more than 1% wolfblood is likely to be dangerous - contrast that to the roughly 7% of German Shepherds...

- There was a public consultaion on this issue in 2004 - no wolfdog owners responded during this time therefore DEFRA concluded that there was no issue here - basically we missed the right time to protest.

There is a lot more information, somewhere I even have the name of the chap who deals with this issue - Let me know if you are interested and I will see if it can be dug up.

Also you may be interested in contacting masairotts who was very active in this area earlier in the year.

Good luck with anything else which you may like to do. If you really are interested in getting things off the ground, let me know.

J.

Dharkwolf · 10-11-2005, 21:02

Ah yes, one more thing:

Paul if you are around and reading this let us know if you've gotten any farther with DEFRA, as you can see we are still very interested in this topic which concerns us all to a small or large extent.

(personally I would love to be able to visit the UK with my dogs, and who knows maybe even to move over there one day)

Rona · 14-11-2005, 12:20

I suppose British CzW owners may think you are from DEFRA and are trying to spot them....

But seriously speaking: would you put at risk your best friend's life or face a threat that for no reason he'd have to spend the rest of his life in a cage? No wonder the owners prefer to keep quiet....

I think only people who don't own CzWs yet, but would like to buy one could safely participate in the campaign.... But then,
1. how many such people might there be in the UK where the breed is practically unknown?
2. How may of those who are interested in the breed use the Internet?
3. How many of those who know the breed, want to buy a CzW and use the Internet know about the wolfdog webpage....?

I used to live in the UK and personally think Untonagens fit much better the British administration system than CzWs

solowolf · 12-02-2006, 21:48

hi everyone its been long time, there are at present 7 wolfdogs in u.k. and i have just returned from spain to uk with two of my czech wolfdogs on pet passports, i have been fighting for three years with defra and very soon hope to met a representitive to talk about the czech wolfdogs, i know it is frustrating but i ask everyone please do not write to defra regarding the wolfdogs, facts,,,,,,,,, the czech wolfdog is not band in the u.k, the czech wolfdog in the uk is classified by defra as A DANGEROUS WILD ANIMAL you need a DWA lience to own one. but before you all even think of getting a wolfdog and lience let me explain with a lience the dog must be keot in a secure pen, it can not be taken into a public place, you must have special cadge made to ministry spec just to transport the dog to a vets. the dog is no more than a zoo animal, do you want to keep your dog like this ........NO so please do not bring in any to the uk, defra are not educated with the czech wolfdogs so what they dont know they fear, they are compairing the czechs to timberwolf F1 crosses in USA i am fighting and i will get there but i need time, i did get my pups registered with the kennel club then they where removed i have refused to return my registration papers to the kennel club and i have refused to comply to getting a DWA Lience for my dogs, i have been warned that i could get jailed, so how far are you prepared to go to own a czech wolfdog in uk...... i will once again have a czech at crufts to the embarasment of the uk kennel club . i will be speaking to the kennel club soon,, defra have never seen a czech wolfdog and they claim they can take blood tests from my dogs to tell wolf content, this is how ignorant they are, the uk is the only place i know of that does not agree that the dog is a direct desendant of the wolf. so you can only imagine how hard it will be even talking to these people,, my dogs travel free in uk they go everywhere as do all there brothers ans sisters, we do not comply to the ministery and will not, i will now keep the site posted and one piece of good news there is one person in the kennel club a high member who will give us suport with the czech wolfdogs,, i will be at crufts utility day, IF I CAN GET PAST THE DOOR ////////// BEST REGARDS PAUL

*myschievous* · 12-02-2006, 22:32

Well done Paul

We will all have you to thank when the day finally comes that defra pull their heads out of their arses...I can't even believe they base such stringent regulations yet never have studied or even met one in the flesh so to speak.

Good luck and thanks for keeping us posted...Look forward to hearing from you here again soon, hopefully with good news...

Nebulosa · 12-02-2006, 22:41

I find one .PDF that talk all about Wolfdogs in UK (per DEFRA)

Paula

Rona · 12-02-2006, 23:36

Paul, we keep our fingers crossed!!! Please, keep us informed on the developments. Good luck

Anneka · 17-02-2006, 00:51

I have thoroughly enquired about the importation of a Czech wolfdog and have spoken in person to DEFRA and to the vet in charge of importation at DEFRA and have been told that a Czech wolfdog IS NOT A DANGEROUS DOG as is NOT on the dangerous dog list. You do not need a dangerous dog liscense and you can keep it as any other domestic pet.
The only trouble you have is that the UK, being as island without rabies has a strict 6 month rabies vacination passport scheme for which there are no loopholes. This means that any puppy purchased must either do 6 months quarantine or stay in it's country of birth for 6 months and undergo the 6 months of rabies and blood tests to aquire entry to the UK. If you bring over a dog well over 6 months old (since it will take 6 months of vacinations and blood tests before being allowed into the UK) you will be aquiring a very unsocialised, untrained dog who will NOT recognise you as the alpha. The dog may never truely respect you or bond with you for life, as it's temperament makes it more wolf than dog. It is 'however' a realistic and hopeful option for a breeder to import such dogs to breed from and you can take a pup off that litter IN THE UK, but any impulsive importation of a small puppy with no passport will result in a quarantined dog, resulting in an unbalanced dog, as they have so much wolf instinct in them, which makes them vary warey to those they do not know and also they will not see you as the boss when you finally take them home.

Believe you me, I have gone through all the channels finding out about this and DEFRA assured me that a Czech is so far removed from the original hybrid that is is now classed as a domestic dog NOT a hybrid.

The Kennel Club told me that in order for this breed to be recognised thoroughly in the UK, more numbers need to be imported and a proper breeding programme must start. There must be a regulated breed standard, an organisation and an aim for the breed. Once this has been approved by the Kennel Club, then the Czech will be recognised over here.

SO COME ON all you wolfdog breeders, let's get some quality dogs over from the top breeders, such as Passo del Lupo and get a good UK line going- also it is VITAL that such special dogs are sold for a high price to the correct people who love the breed and want to improve and protect it, not just look 'tough' with a wolf on their arm. It is a very sensitive dog and once abandoned, may never truely bond with another.
Love Anneka Svenska xxxxx

Nebulosa · 17-02-2006, 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anneka

I have thoroughly enquired about the importation of a Czech wolfdog and have spoken in person to DEFRA and to the vet in charge of importation at DEFRA and have been told that a Czech wolfdog IS NOT A DANGEROUS DOG as is NOT on the dangerous dog list. You do not need a dangerous dog liscense and you can keep it as any other domestic pet.
The only trouble you have is that the UK, being as island without rabies has a strict 6 month rabies vacination passport scheme for which there are no loopholes. This means that any puppy purchased must either do 6 months quarantine or stay in it's country of birth for 6 months and undergo the 6 months of rabies and blood tests to aquire entry to the UK. If you bring over a dog well over 6 months old (since it will take 6 months of vacinations and blood tests before being allowed into the UK) you will be aquiring a very unsocialised, untrained dog who will NOT recognise you as the alpha. The dog may never truely respect you or bond with you for life, as it's temperament makes it more wolf than dog. It is 'however' a realistic and hopeful option for a breeder to import such dogs to breed from and you can take a pup off that litter IN THE UK, but any impulsive importation of a small puppy with no passport will result in a quarantined dog, resulting in an unbalanced dog, as they have so much wolf instinct in them, which makes them vary warey to those they do not know and also they will not see you as the boss when you finally take them home.

Believe you me, I have gone through all the channels finding out about this and DEFRA assured me that a Czech is so far removed from the original hybrid that is is now classed as a domestic dog NOT a hybrid.

The Kennel Club told me that in order for this breed to be recognised thoroughly in the UK, more numbers need to be imported and a proper breeding programme must start. There must be a regulated breed standard, an organisation and an aim for the breed. Once this has been approved by the Kennel Club, then the Czech will be recognised over here.

SO COME ON all you wolfdog breeders, let's get some quality dogs over from the top breeders, such as Passo del Lupo and get a good UK line going- also it is VITAL that such special dogs are sold for a high price to the correct people who love the breed and want to improve and protect it, not just look 'tough' with a wolf on their arm. It is a very sensitive dog and once abandoned, may never truely bond with another.
Love Anneka Svenska xxxxx

Wen I have reading, all dogs that have one % of wolfblood is forbiden in UK, no mattering if is "low content" ou "high content", Saarloos and Czechoslovakian wolfdogs have one % of wolfblood, I belive that this is the problem of these breeds for the DEFRA.

Paula

*myschievous* · 17-02-2006, 01:43

Just to echo what Nebulosa / Paula said...

It isn't about if the Czech wolfdog is on the dangerous dogs list or not, your right it isn't...But the problem is that that yes the CWD is not a hybrid, you've got that right BUT it is a wolfdog of wolf ancestry, with some wolf content.

Some so called expert that DEFRA is in conjunction with deems that a any dog with even just 1% or more wolf content will need a dangerous wild animal license....

The problems are with that are what Paul already outlined...The DWA licence requirement does not mean that the CWD is illegal here in the UK but it does mean you legally require this license to own one and part of fulfilling the regulations set by that license you have to satisfy certain criteria, again which paul describes in his message...All in all it means that the CWD can't be kept as an ordinary pet dog...leading to not such a happy, natural life here in the UK.

Czunksolov · 17-02-2006, 17:44

As i understand the DETR not DEFRA report into the keeping of wolf hybrids it is up to each individual borough council to decide for themselves whether THEY see the CSV as a domestic dog or as "any other canid species". This means you need permission from hundereds of councils just to go for a drive to Cornwall! Very interested in what Anneka said though. Lets hear more about this!

26-01-2005, 00:41	#64
Mosi Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Wales Posts: 26	okie dokie I also have something to show, a friend of my wrote a very very well worded email about a week or two ago, the original: Mr. Adams, I am contacting you at the suggestion of the Defra website. I have been studying the keeping of wild animals as pets and have found the legislation on the subject somewhat confusing, particularly where a certain breed of dog is concerned. The breed in question is called the Ceskoslovensky Vlcak, or Czechoslovakian Wolf Dog. This breed was founded in 1955 by crossing German Shepard Dogs to Carpathian Wolves. The final out cross of the breed to a Wolf was made in 1983. Would this breed, which has not seen new wolf blood in 22 years still considered a Wolf-Hybrid, or would you class it as a domestic dog? Thanks, Kelly Reply!: Dear Mrs Kelly Thank you for your e-mail I apologise for the delay in replying. The Dangerous Wild Animals Act regulates the keeping of certain kinds of dangerous wild animals. The Act aims to ensure that where private individuals keep dangerous wild animals they do so in circumstances which create no risk to the public and safeguard the welfare of the animals. It does not prohibit keeping of such animals entirely but requires such keeping to be licensed. In answer to your query about the Czechoslovakian Wolf Dog, all species of the family Canidae are covered by the Act unless they are specifically excepted such as Canis familiaris, the domestic dog. In Defra's opinion, any generation of wolf-dog "hybrid" with wolf in its ancestry falls within Canidae but cannot be classified as Canis familiaris, the domestic dog, and therefore continues to be covered by the Act. Licensing and enforcement relating to this Act is a matter for the relevant local authority, so each local authority is able to decide if it wishes to consider animals as domestic dogs if perhaps they are many generations removed from the wild species and essentially indistinguishable from a domestic dog. Please note that the Act refers to "species" rather than "breeds", so it is the species which should be considered in interpreting the Act. If you are keeping wolf-dog hybrids of any generation then I recommend you contact your local authority to see whether it considers that the animals concerned should be licensed. Otherwise you could leave yourself open to possible commission of an offence. You may be interested to know that we have been reviewing the Act and a consultation paper proposing various amendments to the Act was published earlier this year (a copy can be found at http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/co...-two/index.htm). This included amendments to species listed on the Act's Schedule, developed with advice from a panel of experts. However, the consultation proposals did not put forward any plans to change the Schedule in respect of wolf hybrids. The consultation period has now closed and we are underway on developing advice to Ministers on the next steps. However, you are welcome to submit information on wolf-dog hybrids if you would like it to be taken into account. Any help? Kelly also wants to help shes asking to rally information and support, "KitsufoxINC: In fact, if you want to lobby them for iinformation for me to send in my reply, I'm happy to help support a responibly created wolf-blooded dog breed and help to ensure that they're never unfairly prosecuted with the leagle system." her email is [email protected] __________________ come see my art ---> www.afiach.deviantart.com

22-08-2005, 10:01	#65
nevada Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Auxonne Posts: 31	legislation of CSV in UK Hello, I live in France and I would like to know if Wolfdog are awlowed in the UK? If yes, what are the condition and reglementation for the owner of a Wolfdog? If any are they many CSV in UK? Thanks

12-02-2006, 21:48	#73
solowolf Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 316	wolfdogs and defra hi everyone its been long time, there are at present 7 wolfdogs in u.k. and i have just returned from spain to uk with two of my czech wolfdogs on pet passports, i have been fighting for three years with defra and very soon hope to met a representitive to talk about the czech wolfdogs, i know it is frustrating but i ask everyone please do not write to defra regarding the wolfdogs, facts,,,,,,,,, the czech wolfdog is not band in the u.k, the czech wolfdog in the uk is classified by defra as A DANGEROUS WILD ANIMAL you need a DWA lience to own one. but before you all even think of getting a wolfdog and lience let me explain with a lience the dog must be keot in a secure pen, it can not be taken into a public place, you must have special cadge made to ministry spec just to transport the dog to a vets. the dog is no more than a zoo animal, do you want to keep your dog like this ........NO so please do not bring in any to the uk, defra are not educated with the czech wolfdogs so what they dont know they fear, they are compairing the czechs to timberwolf F1 crosses in USA i am fighting and i will get there but i need time, i did get my pups registered with the kennel club then they where removed i have refused to return my registration papers to the kennel club and i have refused to comply to getting a DWA Lience for my dogs, i have been warned that i could get jailed, so how far are you prepared to go to own a czech wolfdog in uk...... i will once again have a czech at crufts to the embarasment of the uk kennel club . i will be speaking to the kennel club soon,, defra have never seen a czech wolfdog and they claim they can take blood tests from my dogs to tell wolf content, this is how ignorant they are, the uk is the only place i know of that does not agree that the dog is a direct desendant of the wolf. so you can only imagine how hard it will be even talking to these people,, my dogs travel free in uk they go everywhere as do all there brothers ans sisters, we do not comply to the ministery and will not, i will now keep the site posted and one piece of good news there is one person in the kennel club a high member who will give us suport with the czech wolfdogs,, i will be at crufts utility day, IF I CAN GET PAST THE DOOR ////////// BEST REGARDS PAUL

17-02-2006, 00:51	#77
Anneka Junior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 2	Importation of a Czech wolfdog to the UK is OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have thoroughly enquired about the importation of a Czech wolfdog and have spoken in person to DEFRA and to the vet in charge of importation at DEFRA and have been told that a Czech wolfdog IS NOT A DANGEROUS DOG as is NOT on the dangerous dog list. You do not need a dangerous dog liscense and you can keep it as any other domestic pet. The only trouble you have is that the UK, being as island without rabies has a strict 6 month rabies vacination passport scheme for which there are no loopholes. This means that any puppy purchased must either do 6 months quarantine or stay in it's country of birth for 6 months and undergo the 6 months of rabies and blood tests to aquire entry to the UK. If you bring over a dog well over 6 months old (since it will take 6 months of vacinations and blood tests before being allowed into the UK) you will be aquiring a very unsocialised, untrained dog who will NOT recognise you as the alpha. The dog may never truely respect you or bond with you for life, as it's temperament makes it more wolf than dog. It is 'however' a realistic and hopeful option for a breeder to import such dogs to breed from and you can take a pup off that litter IN THE UK, but any impulsive importation of a small puppy with no passport will result in a quarantined dog, resulting in an unbalanced dog, as they have so much wolf instinct in them, which makes them vary warey to those they do not know and also they will not see you as the boss when you finally take them home. Believe you me, I have gone through all the channels finding out about this and DEFRA assured me that a Czech is so far removed from the original hybrid that is is now classed as a domestic dog NOT a hybrid. The Kennel Club told me that in order for this breed to be recognised thoroughly in the UK, more numbers need to be imported and a proper breeding programme must start. There must be a regulated breed standard, an organisation and an aim for the breed. Once this has been approved by the Kennel Club, then the Czech will be recognised over here. SO COME ON all you wolfdog breeders, let's get some quality dogs over from the top breeders, such as Passo del Lupo and get a good UK line going- also it is VITAL that such special dogs are sold for a high price to the correct people who love the breed and want to improve and protect it, not just look 'tough' with a wolf on their arm. It is a very sensitive dog and once abandoned, may never truely bond with another. Love Anneka Svenska xxxxx

20-01-2005, 16:23	#61
oblivion Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Plzeň Posts: 86	pet passports are titled "passport for small animals" so they're not dog-specific (any cat, fox, wolf can get it as well).. although there are lines like "species:" and "breed:", as long as an F1 cross can get a dog show result (cac - ave lupo mutara), it can also get a pet passport with "species: dog; breed: csw".. but shhh.. ;o)

20-01-2005, 18:30	#62
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	The EU-passport was created for the new EU travelscheme, that mentions cats, dogs and ferrets. It is called pet-passport in Germany. It is not for wolves and other non-pets. Ina

20-01-2005, 22:38	#63
Dharkwolf Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Brussels Posts: 201	Ina is absolutely correct, the reason why pet passports are a good example to give to DEFRA is because they are defined by Commission Decision 2003/803/EC and it is clearly stated that they are to be called "Pet passport" and yet "apply only to pet animals of the species dogs, cats and ferrets." (Incidentally there is your legal basis for saying that Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs are legally of the "dog" ie Canis familiaris species.) That is the sort of thing you need to point out in the cover letter. I apologize to all those who are not interested for the legal jargon (though some might find interesting exactly how a pet passport is supposed to look like). Anyhow... cheers. Dhark

22-08-2005, 10:29	#66
Koos Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 731	Hello, If you followed this forum, than you can notice, that, as far as I know, the CW is not allowed in the UK, because of the rules of the DEFRA, till now. Maybe, you can look back in this forum and you will get a lot of information about that. greetings, Letty

22-08-2005, 20:27	#67
Dharkwolf Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Brussels Posts: 201	Actually technically wolfdogs are allowed in the UK, however they fall under the Dangerous and Wild animals act... That means that they have to spend their lives in a cages, are never allowed to go out and are not allowed to breed. Furthermore in order to even consider having one you will have to demonstrate your ability to handle wild animals so as to get the right permits, as well as having the adequate facilities available for having such animals. It's ridiculous, but those are the rules. Apparently things are slightliy different from burough to burough, but honestly who would want to keep a wolfdog in such a way?

23-08-2005, 10:31	#68
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	Actually there are some signs that things may change. I got a mail from a friend in GB that knows the kennel club quite well. DEFRA has contacted the Kennel Club for a statement for the breed. It seems that some people in the Kennel Club and not DEFRA are against registration because they consider them as to difficult for GB !?! I wrote a statement that nobody in Europe understands this point of view, that there hasn´t been a wolf crossed in for over 20 years and that there are a lot of family dogs and even rescue dogs in this breed. My statement has gone to the person looking for informations about the breed in the Kennel club, how things will end up - I don´t know. At least there has been some movement. Regards Ina

23-09-2005, 15:54	#69
myschievous Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 18	Hi That's very interesting...I live in the UK and I'm looking forward to the day that the restrictions are lifted... Hopefully if anyone has any more news they will post it I'm trying to keep updated on this situation.

10-11-2005, 20:57	#70
Dharkwolf Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Brussels Posts: 201	First of all welcome Samatha! It's always good to see a fly hopping off the wall and coming in to join us. Secondly - people have written to DEFRA in the past (most notably Paul from the Masai Rottveiler Rescue) and they have certainly gotten answers to their comments. Some of the things which DEFRA has said in their letters: - The ban in the UK is linked to a large extent to the Swedish and Norwegian ban. - Pet passports are not considered proof that a CSW is not a wolf (personally I would challenge that but lets drop it for now) - The wolfblood content of the CSW is a problem. There is the opinion of an expert (from the London Zoo) that any animal with more than 1% wolfblood is likely to be dangerous - contrast that to the roughly 7% of German Shepherds... - There was a public consultaion on this issue in 2004 - no wolfdog owners responded during this time therefore DEFRA concluded that there was no issue here - basically we missed the right time to protest. There is a lot more information, somewhere I even have the name of the chap who deals with this issue - Let me know if you are interested and I will see if it can be dug up. Also you may be interested in contacting masairotts who was very active in this area earlier in the year. Good luck with anything else which you may like to do. If you really are interested in getting things off the ground, let me know. J.

10-11-2005, 21:02	#71
Dharkwolf Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Brussels Posts: 201	Ah yes, one more thing: Paul if you are around and reading this let us know if you've gotten any farther with DEFRA, as you can see we are still very interested in this topic which concerns us all to a small or large extent. (personally I would love to be able to visit the UK with my dogs, and who knows maybe even to move over there one day)

14-11-2005, 12:20	#72
Rona Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kraków Posts: 3,509	I suppose British CzW owners may think you are from DEFRA and are trying to spot them.... But seriously speaking: would you put at risk your best friend's life or face a threat that for no reason he'd have to spend the rest of his life in a cage? No wonder the owners prefer to keep quiet.... I think only people who don't own CzWs yet, but would like to buy one could safely participate in the campaign.... But then, 1. how many such people might there be in the UK where the breed is practically unknown? 2. How may of those who are interested in the breed use the Internet? 3. How many of those who know the breed, want to buy a CzW and use the Internet know about the wolfdog webpage....? I used to live in the UK and personally think Untonagens fit much better the British administration system than CzWs

12-02-2006, 22:32	#74
myschievous Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 18	Well done Paul We will all have you to thank when the day finally comes that defra pull their heads out of their arses...I can't even believe they base such stringent regulations yet never have studied or even met one in the flesh so to speak. Good luck and thanks for keeping us posted...Look forward to hearing from you here again soon, hopefully with good news...

12-02-2006, 22:41	#75
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	I find one .PDF that talk all about Wolfdogs in UK (per DEFRA) Paula

12-02-2006, 23:36	#76
Rona Distinguished Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kraków Posts: 3,509	Paul, we keep our fingers crossed!!! Please, keep us informed on the developments. Good luck

17-02-2006, 01:43	#79
myschievous Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 18	Just to echo what Nebulosa / Paula said... It isn't about if the Czech wolfdog is on the dangerous dogs list or not, your right it isn't...But the problem is that that yes the CWD is not a hybrid, you've got that right BUT it is a wolfdog of wolf ancestry, with some wolf content. Some so called expert that DEFRA is in conjunction with deems that a any dog with even just 1% or more wolf content will need a dangerous wild animal license.... The problems are with that are what Paul already outlined...The DWA licence requirement does not mean that the CWD is illegal here in the UK but it does mean you legally require this license to own one and part of fulfilling the regulations set by that license you have to satisfy certain criteria, again which paul describes in his message...All in all it means that the CWD can't be kept as an ordinary pet dog...leading to not such a happy, natural life here in the UK.

17-02-2006, 17:44	#80
Czunksolov Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Prestatyn, Wales Posts: 21	As i understand the DETR not DEFRA report into the keeping of wolf hybrids it is up to each individual borough council to decide for themselves whether THEY see the CSV as a domestic dog or as "any other canid species". This means you need permission from hundereds of councils just to go for a drive to Cornwall! Very interested in what Anneka said though. Lets hear more about this!