Go Back   Wolfdog.org forum > English > Breeding

Breeding Information about breeding, selection, litters....

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 27-06-2011, 23:28   #81
yukidomari
Moderator
 
yukidomari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 847
Send a message via Skype™ to yukidomari
Default

Well, I don't have anything against French breeders or any reason to support Admin (I'm not even a breeder..) but I think one simply needs to read carefully.. all the answers are here, as far as I can tell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArImInIuM View Post
EVIDENCE, WE WANT PROOF no ASSUMPTIONS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Admin View Post
Should I go to France - steal Couchka and both her "parents" and make the DNA tests? You all know it is not possible. And second - since the French kennel club is the FCI member country it must care for the credibility of its pedigrees. What is missing now. It is their DUTY.

....
One thing is sure: YOU MUST DO SOMETHING.

The pedigrees are worth nothing at the moment and ONLY YOU AND YOUR KENNEL CLUB can solve this problem.
yukidomari jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2011, 23:35   #82
wolfin
Moderator
 
wolfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Where the wolf lives
Posts: 6,095
Send a message via ICQ to wolfin Send a message via Skype™ to wolfin
Default

I wait from antswers in Admins question, but i think.. we very long for this wait. Ariminium maybe you make this?
__________________
wolfin jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2011, 23:38   #83
ArImInIuM
Member
 
ArImInIuM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 762
Default

si vous regardez un peu ckinay, et ses parents, vous verez qu'il y a beaucoup de ressemblance, si vous arretiez un peu de dire n'importe quoi.....
merlin crying wolf et ossa criyning wolf
la forme des yeux, l'implantation, la couleur, la taille,le masque, l'implantation des oreilles
s'il y avait eu un mariage avec unkas, ne croyez vous pas que le chien aurait eu des signes de AWD ????
mais regardez plus loin , vous êtes bornés, vous prennez les paroles de ADMIN comme paroles d'évangile

if you look a little ckinay, and his parents, you will see there is a lot of resemblance, if you stop just to say anything .....
merlin crying wolf and wolf criyning ossa
eye shape, placement, color, size, mask, ear implantation
if there had been a marriage unkas, do not you think the dog would have been signs of AWD??
but look further, you're limited, you take the words as gospel ADMIN
ArImInIuM jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2011, 23:58   #84
wolfin
Moderator
 
wolfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Where the wolf lives
Posts: 6,095
Send a message via ICQ to wolfin Send a message via Skype™ to wolfin
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArImInIuM View Post
if you look a little ckinay, and his parents, you will see there is a lot of resemblance, if you stop just to say anything .....
merlin crying wolf and wolf criyning ossa
eye shape, placement, color, size, mask, ear implantation
if there had been a marriage unkas, do not you think the dog would have been signs of AWD??
but look further, you're limited, you take the words as gospel ADMIN
if when I see in parents and child i see big diferent, who not see you.
why you think people begin speak about falsh pedigree this dog, when HE is diferent like his genetic line.

and maybe you antswer in admins questions?

p.s. when write please delet french worts, I think this can you make without problem.
__________________
wolfin jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2011, 00:12   #85
ArImInIuM
Member
 
ArImInIuM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 762
Default

"j'y vois de grandes differences......."

donc vous restez campez sur vos suppositions, je reste campé sur les miennes ..........
pour ma part les tests sont bons pour jalisca, le reste quoique l'on en dise est vraiment sans importance ......

j'attends juste les "prétendues" preuves....... on avisera ensuite......
ArImInIuM jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2011, 00:14   #86
wolfin
Moderator
 
wolfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Where the wolf lives
Posts: 6,095
Send a message via ICQ to wolfin Send a message via Skype™ to wolfin
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArImInIuM View Post
"j'y vois de grandes differences......."

donc vous restez campez sur vos suppositions, je reste campé sur les miennes ..........
pour ma part les tests sont bons pour jalisca, le reste quoique l'on en dise est vraiment sans importance ......

j'attends juste les "prétendues" preuves....... on avisera ensuite......
what? say in normal language, can in lithuanian if want
__________________
wolfin jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2011, 07:46   #87
Vaiva
ir Brukne
 
Vaiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vilnius
Posts: 1,768
Send a message via Skype™ to Vaiva
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArImInIuM View Post
EVIDENCE, WE WANT PROOF no ASSUMPTIONS
But aren't you the one, whocan give real proof your dogs are not mixes? Just make a dnr test, it is not that expensive

Kaip su plikiu pešiotis...
__________________
Walkiria Girios dvasia

Vaiva jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2011, 07:48   #88
wolfin
Moderator
 
wolfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Where the wolf lives
Posts: 6,095
Send a message via ICQ to wolfin Send a message via Skype™ to wolfin
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaiva View Post
But aren't you the one, whocan give real proof your dogs are not mixes? Just make a dnr test, it is not that expensive

Kaip su plikiu pešiotis...
about this and speak Admin, but they ignore questions only cry

būtent, koležanke iš trečiosios šalies
__________________
wolfin jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2011, 11:32   #89
michaelundinaeichhorn
Senior Member
 
michaelundinaeichhorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Bad Dürkheim
Posts: 2,249
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArImInIuM View Post

if you look a little ckinay, and his parents, you will see there is a lot of resemblance, if you stop just to say anything .....
merlin crying wolf and wolf criyning ossa
eye shape, placement, color, size, mask, ear implantation
Sorry, either you're joking or you're blind...
This dog looks more like a so called American Wolfdog (this is by far no breed!) rather than any CSW.

Michael
michaelundinaeichhorn jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2011, 12:06   #90
Hanka
Senior Member
 
Hanka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Kadaň
Posts: 1,622
Send a message via ICQ to Hanka Send a message via Skype™ to Hanka
Default

It is a pitty in other countries exist wolfdog clubs only like clubs of friends of wolfdogs. Not really BREEDING clubs. Nobody lead breeding. Not breeding comitees. In breeding with FCI pedigree is everything with 4 legs. Not conditions for breeding dogs. If every breeding wolfdog will must have bonitation, it will be easy. Every not typicle wolfdog (in eyes of bonitation comitee)will have P14 and he will not have pups with FCI pedigree. But it is work for clubs and cooperating with dog organisations in every country.
And if owner will not agree with bonitation comitee, he must show DNA test......
Hanka jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2011, 16:23   #91
Vaiva
ir Brukne
 
Vaiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Vilnius
Posts: 1,768
Send a message via Skype™ to Vaiva
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanka View Post
It is a pitty in other countries exist wolfdog clubs only like clubs of friends of wolfdogs. Not really BREEDING clubs. Nobody lead breeding. Not breeding comitees. In breeding with FCI pedigree is everything with 4 legs. Not conditions for breeding dogs. If every breeding wolfdog will must have bonitation, it will be easy. Every not typicle wolfdog (in eyes of bonitation comitee)will have P14 and he will not have pups with FCI pedigree. But it is work for clubs and cooperating with dog organisations in every country.
And if owner will not agree with bonitation comitee, he must show DNA test......
Hanka, I understand your consern, but do you really have BREEDING clubs in your country that take care of breeding of Dogo Argentino? Croatian Sheepdog? Shikoku? French hounds? Really? Hope you at least have friends clubs of these breeds. And sorry, but this breeding comitee work somehow does not show such great results in Czech Respublic than in some other countries where only breed "friends" clubs exist (even un-official)

We all know that bonitation is not allways the only true answer - or do you still believe in it blindly?

P.S. Does bonitation really make more sense than DNR test?
__________________
Walkiria Girios dvasia


Last edited by Vaiva; 28-06-2011 at 16:36.
Vaiva jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2011, 18:23   #92
z Peronówki
VIP Member
 
z Peronówki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Późna
Posts: 6,996
Send a message via MSN to z Peronówki Send a message via Skype™ to z Peronówki
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanka View Post
It is a pitty in other countries exist wolfdog clubs only like clubs of friends of wolfdogs. Not really BREEDING clubs. Nobody lead breeding. Not breeding comitees. In breeding with FCI pedigree is everything with 4 legs. Not conditions for breeding dogs. If every breeding wolfdog will must have bonitation, it will be easy. Every not typicle wolfdog (in eyes of bonitation comitee)will have P14 and he will not have pups with FCI pedigree. But it is work for clubs and cooperating with dog organisations in every country.
And if owner will not agree with bonitation comitee, he must show DNA test......
I'm sorry Hanka but it is not working... First - atypical Wolfdogs DO NOT get P14... In many cases they get P1 (excellent note) even if the look and move horrible And Mutaras are the best example. Audrey Lupo Mutara - she has 0% of blood of Czechoslovakian Wolfdog; she looks like a malamute-German Shepherd cross but she passed the Czech bonitation The same was with Ave Lupo - she pased the bonitation in Jetrichovice. Not different was with other "Saarlooses" registered in Italy. Mutara Fenrir was bonitated by a Czech club judge and get NOT P14 but P3 (very good - bonitation code with almost no faults). Most of the Mutaras were already bonitated by the Czech club judges and they get PERFECT codes - best example:
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/bonitations/122.html

Sorry but with bonitation you can not make ANYTHING against the mixes. Only DNA tests and liquidation of their pedigrees will solve the problem...
__________________
.

'Z PERONÓWKI'
FACEBOOK GROUP
z Peronówki jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2011, 19:07   #93
wolfin
Moderator
 
wolfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Where the wolf lives
Posts: 6,095
Send a message via ICQ to wolfin Send a message via Skype™ to wolfin
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanka View Post
It is a pitty in other countries exist wolfdog clubs only like clubs of friends of wolfdogs. Not really BREEDING clubs. Nobody lead breeding. Not breeding comitees. In breeding with FCI pedigree is everything with 4 legs. Not conditions for breeding dogs. If every breeding wolfdog will must have bonitation, it will be easy. Every not typicle wolfdog (in eyes of bonitation comitee)will have P14 and he will not have pups with FCI pedigree. But it is work for clubs and cooperating with dog organisations in every country.
And if owner will not agree with bonitation comitee, he must show DNA test......
Hanka who bonitation type mas make? czech slovak or italian? Margo very good say not bonitation say mix or not but only DNA test. Better say when you are in CZ club commision, who czech club planed make with this problem?
__________________
wolfin jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2011, 20:07   #94
Mikael
Scandinavian Member
 
Mikael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 1,089
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by z Peronówki View Post
Hmmm... And this judge are good ???

I mean, would this dogs pass a good Bonitation judge ???

Best regards / Mikael
__________________
_________________________________________________
*Hronec, Rasty, Zilja * Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html
Mikael jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2011, 20:13   #95
wolfin
Moderator
 
wolfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Where the wolf lives
Posts: 6,095
Send a message via ICQ to wolfin Send a message via Skype™ to wolfin
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael View Post
Hmmm... And this judge are good ???

I mean, would this dogs pass a good Bonitation judge ???

Best regards / Mikael
Mikael I understand maybe I am to young to stupid to judge now, but excelent thake for suspicious dogs and "old wolf" in judgement, like Oskar, Sonja, A.Simackova, Jedlicka, Soukupova they JUDGE who judge very long time and judge in bonitation ( a few about 20 years)....

and you quest make bonitation sense in detection suspicious dogs or not
__________________
wolfin jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2011, 20:20   #96
Mikael
Scandinavian Member
 
Mikael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 1,089
Question

Maybe a DNA test are to be made at all Bonitations

Best regards / Mikael
__________________
_________________________________________________
*Hronec, Rasty, Zilja * Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html
Mikael jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2011, 20:29   #97
wolfin
Moderator
 
wolfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Where the wolf lives
Posts: 6,095
Send a message via ICQ to wolfin Send a message via Skype™ to wolfin
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael View Post
Maybe a DNA test are to be made at all Bonitations

Best regards / Mikael
I not see problem in this. this not expensive this test - very good when this make all breeder with they litter before sale puppy and see 5-10 years and we have great DNA databasa
__________________
wolfin jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2011, 23:21   #98
Mikael
Scandinavian Member
 
Mikael's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 1,089
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfin View Post
I not see problem in this. this not expensive this test - very good when this make all breeder with they litter before sale puppy and see 5-10 years and we have great DNA databasa
One Bonitation judge of 10 ... 9 to go !!!

What do you think Hanka is it possible to get the clubs to start to talk about this ???

Best regards / Mikael
__________________
_________________________________________________
*Hronec, Rasty, Zilja * Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html
Mikael jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2011, 06:34   #99
Hanka
Senior Member
 
Hanka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Kadaň
Posts: 1,622
Send a message via ICQ to Hanka Send a message via Skype™ to Hanka
Default

Everybody here knows, Jedlicka is Mutara maker and Mutara owner= mutaras heva good results. And= it is NOT czech club judge, because club does not cooperate wit him many years.
Yes, it is easy to tell "it is not possible", to write here 1000 things why it is not possible. So good, we will write here hundreds pages about terrible french mixes. It is better. Only write and do nothing.
My God......
So Ok, we will look at next and next generations of mixes and we will write how it is terrible....
Hanka jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2011, 07:49   #100
wolfin
Moderator
 
wolfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Where the wolf lives
Posts: 6,095
Send a message via ICQ to wolfin Send a message via Skype™ to wolfin
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanka View Post
Everybody here knows, Jedlicka is Mutara maker and Mutara owner= mutaras heva good results. And= it is NOT czech club judge, because club does not cooperate wit him many years.
Yes, it is easy to tell "it is not possible", to write here 1000 things why it is not possible. So good, we will write here hundreds pages about terrible french mixes. It is better. Only write and do nothing.
My God......
So Ok, we will look at next and next generations of mixes and we will write how it is terrible....
my God.. you make this same too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfin View Post
Better say, when you are in CZ club commision, who czech club planed make with this problem?
who planed make your club ( club country in who born this breed, when CZ club are this who work with breed and protect the breed who we can read almost in all post in CZ forum) in this case?

p.s. Why I quest- club from origin mas begin work with this- and others clubs/people want to help too, but origin club mas make a start and make working plan.
__________________

Last edited by wolfin; 29-06-2011 at 07:59. Reason: p.s.
wolfin jest offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:45.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Wolfdog.org