MISSING credibility of the French pedigrees

[yukidomari]

Well, I don't have anything against French breeders or any reason to support Admin (I'm not even a breeder..) but I think one simply needs to read carefully.. all the answers are here, as far as I can tell?

Originally Posted by ArImInIuM

EVIDENCE, WE WANT PROOF no ASSUMPTIONS

Originally Posted by Admin

Should I go to France - steal Couchka and both her "parents" and make the DNA tests? You all know it is not possible. And second - since the French kennel club is the FCI member country it must care for the credibility of its pedigrees. What is missing now. It is their DUTY.

....
One thing is sure: YOU MUST DO SOMETHING.

The pedigrees are worth nothing at the moment and ONLY YOU AND YOUR KENNEL CLUB can solve this problem.

[wolfin]

I wait from antswers in Admins question, but i think.. we very long for this wait. Ariminium maybe you make this?

[ArImInIuM]

si vous regardez un peu ckinay, et ses parents, vous verez qu'il y a beaucoup de ressemblance, si vous arretiez un peu de dire n'importe quoi.....
merlin crying wolf et ossa criyning wolf
la forme des yeux, l'implantation, la couleur, la taille,le masque, l'implantation des oreilles
s'il y avait eu un mariage avec unkas, ne croyez vous pas que le chien aurait eu des signes de AWD ????
mais regardez plus loin , vous êtes bornés, vous prennez les paroles de ADMIN comme paroles d'évangile

if you look a little ckinay, and his parents, you will see there is a lot of resemblance, if you stop just to say anything .....
merlin crying wolf and wolf criyning ossa
eye shape, placement, color, size, mask, ear implantation
if there had been a marriage unkas, do not you think the dog would have been signs of AWD??
but look further, you're limited, you take the words as gospel ADMIN

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by ArImInIuM

if you look a little ckinay, and his parents, you will see there is a lot of resemblance, if you stop just to say anything .....
merlin crying wolf and wolf criyning ossa
eye shape, placement, color, size, mask, ear implantation
if there had been a marriage unkas, do not you think the dog would have been signs of AWD??
but look further, you're limited, you take the words as gospel ADMIN

if when I see in parents and child i see big diferent, who not see you.
why you think people begin speak about falsh pedigree this dog, when HE is diferent like his genetic line.

and maybe you antswer in admins questions?

p.s. when write please delet french worts, I think this can you make without problem.

[ArImInIuM]

"j'y vois de grandes differences......."

donc vous restez campez sur vos suppositions, je reste campé sur les miennes ..........
pour ma part les tests sont bons pour jalisca, le reste quoique l'on en dise est vraiment sans importance ......

j'attends juste les "prétendues" preuves....... on avisera ensuite......

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by ArImInIuM

"j'y vois de grandes differences......."

donc vous restez campez sur vos suppositions, je reste campé sur les miennes ..........
pour ma part les tests sont bons pour jalisca, le reste quoique l'on en dise est vraiment sans importance ......

j'attends juste les "prétendues" preuves....... on avisera ensuite......

what? say in normal language, can in lithuanian if want

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by ArImInIuM

EVIDENCE, WE WANT PROOF no ASSUMPTIONS

But aren't you the one, whocan give real proof your dogs are not mixes? Just make a dnr test, it is not that expensive

Kaip su plikiu pešiotis...

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

But aren't you the one, whocan give real proof your dogs are not mixes? Just make a dnr test, it is not that expensive

Kaip su plikiu pešiotis...

about this and speak Admin, but they ignore questions only cry

būtent, koležanke iš trečiosios šalies

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by ArImInIuM

if you look a little ckinay, and his parents, you will see there is a lot of resemblance, if you stop just to say anything .....
merlin crying wolf and wolf criyning ossa
eye shape, placement, color, size, mask, ear implantation

Sorry, either you're joking or you're blind...
This dog looks more like a so called American Wolfdog (this is by far no breed!) rather than any CSW.

Michael

[Hanka]

It is a pitty in other countries exist wolfdog clubs only like clubs of friends of wolfdogs. Not really BREEDING clubs. Nobody lead breeding. Not breeding comitees. In breeding with FCI pedigree is everything with 4 legs. Not conditions for breeding dogs. If every breeding wolfdog will must have bonitation, it will be easy. Every not typicle wolfdog (in eyes of bonitation comitee)will have P14 and he will not have pups with FCI pedigree. But it is work for clubs and cooperating with dog organisations in every country.
And if owner will not agree with bonitation comitee, he must show DNA test......

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Hanka

It is a pitty in other countries exist wolfdog clubs only like clubs of friends of wolfdogs. Not really BREEDING clubs. Nobody lead breeding. Not breeding comitees. In breeding with FCI pedigree is everything with 4 legs. Not conditions for breeding dogs. If every breeding wolfdog will must have bonitation, it will be easy. Every not typicle wolfdog (in eyes of bonitation comitee)will have P14 and he will not have pups with FCI pedigree. But it is work for clubs and cooperating with dog organisations in every country.
And if owner will not agree with bonitation comitee, he must show DNA test......

Hanka, I understand your consern, but do you really have BREEDING clubs in your country that take care of breeding of Dogo Argentino? Croatian Sheepdog? Shikoku? French hounds? Really? Hope you at least have friends clubs of these breeds. And sorry, but this breeding comitee work somehow does not show such great results in Czech Respublic than in some other countries where only breed "friends" clubs exist (even un-official)

We all know that bonitation is not allways the only true answer - or do you still believe in it blindly?

P.S. Does bonitation really make more sense than DNR test?

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Hanka

It is a pitty in other countries exist wolfdog clubs only like clubs of friends of wolfdogs. Not really BREEDING clubs. Nobody lead breeding. Not breeding comitees. In breeding with FCI pedigree is everything with 4 legs. Not conditions for breeding dogs. If every breeding wolfdog will must have bonitation, it will be easy. Every not typicle wolfdog (in eyes of bonitation comitee)will have P14 and he will not have pups with FCI pedigree. But it is work for clubs and cooperating with dog organisations in every country.
And if owner will not agree with bonitation comitee, he must show DNA test......

I'm sorry Hanka but it is not working... First - atypical Wolfdogs DO NOT get P14... In many cases they get P1 (excellent note) even if the look and move horrible And Mutaras are the best example. Audrey Lupo Mutara - she has 0% of blood of Czechoslovakian Wolfdog; she looks like a malamute-German Shepherd cross but she passed the Czech bonitation The same was with Ave Lupo - she pased the bonitation in Jetrichovice. Not different was with other "Saarlooses" registered in Italy. Mutara Fenrir was bonitated by a Czech club judge and get NOT P14 but P3 (very good - bonitation code with almost no faults). Most of the Mutaras were already bonitated by the Czech club judges and they get PERFECT codes - best example:
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/bonitations/122.html

Sorry but with bonitation you can not make ANYTHING against the mixes. Only DNA tests and liquidation of their pedigrees will solve the problem...

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Hanka

It is a pitty in other countries exist wolfdog clubs only like clubs of friends of wolfdogs. Not really BREEDING clubs. Nobody lead breeding. Not breeding comitees. In breeding with FCI pedigree is everything with 4 legs. Not conditions for breeding dogs. If every breeding wolfdog will must have bonitation, it will be easy. Every not typicle wolfdog (in eyes of bonitation comitee)will have P14 and he will not have pups with FCI pedigree. But it is work for clubs and cooperating with dog organisations in every country.
And if owner will not agree with bonitation comitee, he must show DNA test......

Hanka who bonitation type mas make? czech slovak or italian? Margo very good say not bonitation say mix or not but only DNA test. Better say when you are in CZ club commision, who czech club planed make with this problem?

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by z Peronówki

http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/bonitations/122.html

Hmmm... And this judge are good ???

I mean, would this dogs pass a good Bonitation judge ???

Best regards / Mikael

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Hmmm... And this judge are good ???

I mean, would this dogs pass a good Bonitation judge ???

Best regards / Mikael

Mikael I understand maybe I am to young to stupid to judge now, but excelent thake for suspicious dogs and "old wolf" in judgement, like Oskar, Sonja, A.Simackova, Jedlicka, Soukupova they JUDGE who judge very long time and judge in bonitation ( a few about 20 years)....

and you quest make bonitation sense in detection suspicious dogs or not

[Mikael]

Maybe a DNA test are to be made at all Bonitations

Best regards / Mikael

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Maybe a DNA test are to be made at all Bonitations

Best regards / Mikael

I not see problem in this. this not expensive this test - very good when this make all breeder with they litter before sale puppy and see 5-10 years and we have great DNA databasa

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by wolfin

I not see problem in this. this not expensive this test - very good when this make all breeder with they litter before sale puppy and see 5-10 years and we have great DNA databasa

One Bonitation judge of 10 ... 9 to go !!!

What do you think Hanka is it possible to get the clubs to start to talk about this ???

Best regards / Mikael

[Hanka]

Everybody here knows, Jedlicka is Mutara maker and Mutara owner= mutaras heva good results. And= it is NOT czech club judge, because club does not cooperate wit him many years.
Yes, it is easy to tell "it is not possible", to write here 1000 things why it is not possible. So good, we will write here hundreds pages about terrible french mixes. It is better. Only write and do nothing.
My God......
So Ok, we will look at next and next generations of mixes and we will write how it is terrible....

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Everybody here knows, Jedlicka is Mutara maker and Mutara owner= mutaras heva good results. And= it is NOT czech club judge, because club does not cooperate wit him many years.
Yes, it is easy to tell "it is not possible", to write here 1000 things why it is not possible. So good, we will write here hundreds pages about terrible french mixes. It is better. Only write and do nothing.
My God......
So Ok, we will look at next and next generations of mixes and we will write how it is terrible....

my God.. you make this same too.

Originally Posted by wolfin

Better say, when you are in CZ club commision, who czech club planed make with this problem?

who planed make your club ( club country in who born this breed, when CZ club are this who work with breed and protect the breed who we can read almost in all post in CZ forum) in this case?

p.s. Why I quest- club from origin mas begin work with this- and others clubs/people want to help too, but origin club mas make a start and make working plan.