Mixes in 'La Louve Blanche' kennel?

[lupis]

i read you write in your country breeder register mixes. but i hear you breeder not register mixes but also breed with false parents and puppies look different line parents. why you not make DNA test for all breeders? I read about mixes in de Louba tar. I show you in last post mixes in France from mixed parents from italian line and my friends say in france are more breeder with mixes. Margo write mix look like more husky or like Sangria and italian breeder find dog from france who is not purebreed. you know something about it?

you see it is husky goggles and not czech wolfdog mask and dog look like Sangria brother or saarloos/husky.

But i think there are more false dogs in france. my friends show me photos and i show it you. look litter merlin and ossa. in first litter you see normal wolfdog like parents





in not see blazy but blue is small like crying wolf dogs. but i hear second litter with same parents is very much different. very much huge - more like normal czech wolfdog and also look different http://www.wolfdog.org/de/gallery/cat/1/0/9967/


you see dog is not from same parents. i not see photos of other dogs from same litter but i see it by my friends and all dogs are different. my friends asked ENCI how we can check if dogs are real czech wolfdog but ENCI told we must use italian club. and we can not use italian club because main officials in our club have or breed mixes too and will not help. do you can make something in france to see if it is real. you make DNA test for de Louba tar so maybe you can make test for it litter too? because for us it is new mixes litter

[Hanka]

Hmmm Lupis, Elf. You have only one reason. Buy pups only from kennels, where (you think) is all correct. Because dog associations in some countries does not work and countries of origin can do nothing if theese dogs have cz.wolfdog pedigree.....

[Nebulosa]

The best of all this is that you can see dogs like that winning pure dogs at dogshows, even with well know judges.
This takes away any of the little credibility dogshows can have with our breed.

[lupis]

more question because i see something strange in database. how big is normal wolfdog litter? i hear from breeders normal is 5-8. and i check crying wolf litter and all have normal size - from 2 till 8 puppies. and i see french litter i wrote before and breeder use dogs from crying wolf but all liters are very much big. most small one is with 8 puppies and biggest is with 14 puppies. do you know litter with 14 puppies because people (CLC breeders) say it is not possible because 11 is maximum puppies in CLC. they say huge litter is normal for "outcross" it means if you use dog of other breed.

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by lupis

more question because i see something strange in database. how big is normal wolfdog litter? i hear from breeders normal is 5-8. and i check crying wolf litter and all have normal size - from 2 till 8 puppies. and i see french litter i wrote before and breeder use dogs from crying wolf but all liters are very much big. most small one is with 8 puppies and biggest is with 14 puppies. do you know litter with 14 puppies because people (CLC breeders) say it is not possible because 11 is maximum puppies in CLC. they say huge litter is normal for "outcross" it means if you use dog of other breed.

The biggest litter I have ever seen was a 16 puppies born from a Brazilian Mastiff, a really huge female, I think will be really rare a wolfdog gave birth to more than 12 puppies in one litter.
Outcrossing will have more puppies than a inbreeding or line breeding, but in CzW we don't have real outcrossings, so, this would never happen, only if we open the bloodline with new dogs... or mixes, all dogs have minimally a huge linebreeding in Rep Z PS, that's why imbreedings like happen in other more poppular breeds is almost forbiden, it's too dangerous.
But, even like that 14 puppies is in my point of view too much for a wolfdog, is even a huge litter for a mastiff.
Independant of how good is the litter control, will be ever pretty easy to put puppies from different litter in a small litter and register as pure dogs with the parents of the small litter, and so, make a false pedigree of "pure dogs" in mixes... I dream one day people wil need call a vet for colect blood of each puppie in the litter for make a DNA test... and even like that will be possible cheat.

[furyos]

hi paula.. how are yu??? y don't speak about this balrog .. but balrog de la louve blanche .. (in "B" litter) ...y show yu him for info ...

[furyos]

sorry paula but if yu don't find wolf mix are not nice it's just a difference from point of view .... y like this look so wolfish .. and it's my choice ... .. BUT don't like behaviour from this danderous mix with alsakan malamute etc .....but y reconize the really nice look from them ... best regards ...

[hanninadina]

Nebulosa, sorry I like wolfmixes and of course real wolves. But I love csw too. Franky, I am fine and thanks for the litter Myla and Miky. Ok, it seems that you wanted to make some avertisement for your kennel with different wolfcrosses but not with csw, I mean first litter of Ossa and Merlin. You did not answer why you first took pics from wolfhybrids in french internet side for selling dogs and than after some people ask why your are making marketing for the first litter of Ossa and Merlin with these pics you took the pics off? Ok, it is private everyone of us can make marketing how we like. It is for me no problem. And if you are lucky too have a puppy who is looking more like wolf, congratulation. So, from my side I don´t blame you, for me it is ok and I am happy for you!

Christian

[Angelika]

Originally Posted by furyos

.. ossa NEVER have 14 pupp ..

Just have a look at the data of Ossa:

9 B descendants
9 C descendants
14 D descendants

If it´s not true it should be corrected.

[furyos]

hi angelika .. it will be great to change it .. sure .. and know in same time who send this information ... not me in this case .. but .. if some peolpe like spend time ... best regards .. frank

[furyos]

for information .. "d" litter 10 pupps ...

[Nebulosa]

By the way I really don't think they will acept and put online a information about a new litter wich haven't been sended by the breeder like that.
Nor even that they would put wrong the number of puppies.

[furyos]

ok paula .... y send a mail to margo ;... but y m so curious to know WHO ploay to send bad info litter on my kennel .. strange not????

[furyos]

HEYYYY LUPIS !!! how are yu??? y don't note yur last topic on my dogs .... hum thanks a lot if yu show them and open discussion on .. very good publicity for my kennel .. well just for yu .. yu have doubts for blazy and blue .. not twinn sure .. but go to boheme on database and see more same type (compare female with female and male with male please for morphotype) .. well for c 'pouchka sure she 's darker ... but do yu see Balrog from first litter ??? for clearly coat yu can see ckinai and cyrcee (same than blasy/blue/boheme)... . just a question do yu know enigmatik and genetik in a new breed in construction??? but if yu want .. yu can visit me in france and do all ADN test yu want .. y m so happy to help yu ... !! BUt if yu couldn't prove anything y hope yu give me a lot of money for my time spend near yu ... For the end :say hi !!!to yur friend who speak about me with you ... y m so glad to note my work is in yur discussion .... for dream 'wolf yu have devil grey /demoniak diamond and darween in same litter ....all different BUT so so wolfish and so so nice .... y forget to say ... yu know what .. y have 100 wolwes in my garden in Paris and y do mariage with them ... all color yu want .. red /black/green / pink..etc .. witch one yu need .... ???? best regards ;.. yur friend frank

[hanninadina]

Frankie, C`Pouchka, nice looking, but I can not understand too, that Merlin und Ossa should be the parents...?! I remember I think it was a good 1 1/2 year ago maybe a bit more, that you did publish in french homepage for selling dogs the first litter from Merlin and Ossa. But the funny thing was that you took pictures from american wolfdogs with brown coat like C´´Pouchka has and white mask from wolf. It has been hybrids but not Merlin and Ossa. And some people ask you and you remember what, it took 1 day and you took the pictures from the net and did not answer the questions what kind of dogs these were. I think there is here in english forum a thread. If I have time I will search. And when I see now C´Pouchka for me she looks like not Merlin was father but one of these hybrids. What do you say?

I remember talking to some people who saw you with your dogs at the end of june in germany and they told me these were not csw. Funny is that one of these people were Michael Eichhorn who now took Blue for breeding his Falin. He told me that the C-litter could not have the same parents. And if I see here this pic from C´Pouchka, no I think too, different parent.

Christian

owner of the sister to Merlin, Myla Crying Wolf

[hanninadina]

I just notice that the thread is right on top Frankies kennel and I wrote on 21.1.2007. But it was another pic with two hybrids standing right beside a hut. Not the mother with new puppies.

Christian

[furyos]

hi christian .. yes y remember yu ...how are yu ?.... y know that c'pouchka is darker than blue or blazy but in "B" litter y have 1 male dark too(balrog )and ...ckinai in same litter is clearly and is the brother(go to database to see) .. yu cando test blood dna ..if yu want ... just before this topic lupis say y have husky blood and saarloos blood and now yu say y have usa hybrid wolf ... good things because it'will be great to have this look for my kennel ... it's a real honnor and compliment if yu think that .. but sorry if y couldn't satisfy yur curiosity in the good way ....... y hope yu wait very nice litter from miky ..(y love him too) and y do with velaskez (induk's son)a marriage ... y hope so.... future can say if y go in a good way ... best regards .. frank

[Nebulosa]

Botis and Balrog only have silly differences in collor, they're pretty similar in body and are tipical CzW, all these differences we can wait for a normal litter, different of the litters mentioned here, where we see a suposed CzW with googles and other things that turn these dogs atipical even for the breed.
if you find a "honour" someone think your dogs are mixes, I think you need studie a little bit about " breed" and "selection" as actualise yourself about the problems CzW is passing.

[lupis]

Originally Posted by hanninadina

I remember talking to some people who saw you with your dogs at the end of june in germany and they told me these were not csw. Funny is that one of these people were Michael Eichhorn who now took Blue for breeding his Falin. He told me that the C-litter could not have the same parents. And if I see here this pic from C´Pouchka, no I think too, different parent.

Thank you for explanation. Now i see it is true what i see in photos and what also breeders in italy say about furyos litters. Because if people in germany see dogs of this litter and say dogs are not real czech wolfdog and german breeder is sure furyos make mixes for me it is clear too and i have no more question

[Backman]

HI LUPIS on the picture of Dream Wolf above, he is about 4 months old, so I do not think it is the right time of dogs age to judge what he will be like as grown up. so when he is all grown up and you still think he looks like a husky..*hihi* you can tell me..
Who are you? who are you to judge my dogs, I love my dogs,they are the best I have!
And I trust Frank, and just to prove you are all wrong I will take DNA test to prove Crying Wolf Volos is father to Dream Wolf.
I think this is really ridicoulus.
Take good care of your own dogs instead and give them all your time, and not put all your energy surfing on the net to blame other breeders.

Jenny ,Finland