Mixes in 'La Louve Blanche' kennel?

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by Admin

Anyway: do you really think that CsW breeders are idiots who can be cheated? Do you think that there is even one experienced breeder who will believe it that THIS DOG is a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog:



Ooooppps - I found by the kennel of American Wolfdogs exactly almost the same looking dog:

That's "Hollywood"...if you look very closely, you will see "Hollywood" is in a pack with "Puff"...very similar in coloration to Erha.

http://wolfhybrids.com/Ourgals.htm
http://wolfhybrids.com/Ourguys.htm

But don't forget, we now have Southern Breeze Europe (google gave me warning that this site might harm your computer - I have a Mac, so had no problems, but please use caution...)
www.southernbreeze-europe.com/

[martiou07]

Franck, It would however be so simple to play the game of tests DNA so indeed you are the quiet aware….

[Rona]

I wonder how would an honest breeder, who has always followed the FCI/AKC breeding principles react/behave if somebody accused him/her of breeding mixes or faking pedigrees...

I imagine the first reaction would be anger, but what would be the next step? Ignore the accusations? Take the case to the Kennel Club or to court ? Make the DNA tests of the dogs/pups and ...pay for them?

I'm trying to figure out what would be the most pragmatic and psychologically rational reaction to such accusation

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

That reminds me at the "Tour de France" (what a coincidence), where all the athletes especially the winners claiming not been on Clenbuterol or other substances.
And of course the positive blood tests lie, they're all honest athletes...
All these slanderers.
By the way, in Heigenbrücken/Germany where Franck took part at the club show with the above mentioned dogs my friend Sona Bognárova and I realized instantly that dogs where American wolfdog crosses.
It's all too visible.

Michael

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by furyos

because i know exactly my work and your jalousy is a real problem but just FOR YOU...

So just a question to you Mr Frank, if you know your work and are sure your dogs are pure, way not just do the DNA test and slam it up the admins face ???

Best regards / Mikael

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by Rona

I wonder how would an honest breeder, who has always followed the FCI/AKC breeding principles react/behave if somebody accused him/her of breeding mixes or faking pedigrees...

I only bean accused for having a F1 Hybrid mix ones, I asked him to call the police and I would wait right there, I also had pedigree copy that I did show him, but he did say the paper was a fake and he was not stupid
It was Swedens biggest holiday ( Midsummer ), so he did say the police will not come all the way out to us in the archipelago, but he was not stupid, he knew it was a F1 Hybrid At this point it was over 30 people looking how this would end, and the man was drunk and angery... I was calm and had not bean drinking at all, so when I did take up my id for him to write of the id number he desided to walk away still very very agery...

But in Sweden, we are accused from the begining by the Swedish Kennel Club, we MUST DNA test all Cs Vlcaks and Saarloos to get the pure FCI pedigree No other dog breeds need to do that...

Very best regards / Mikael

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Furyos

you think really we want do or try to do any collaboration with nazi like YOU ??

It's called Godwin law and it's not the first time I've seen it here.

"there is a tradition in many newsgroups and other Internet discussion forums that once such a comparison is made, the thread is finished and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically "lost" whatever debate was in progress." - Wikipedia

It really works as we can see in this topic.

Originally Posted by Furyos

thanks for your NICE PUBLICITY ,,, 3 reservation today for my next litter after your topic in france and here

Great! And here we can confirm that you sell your pups to everyone who have the childish dream of have his pet wolf to show off to its friends, people who doesn't care for ethics and does not have common sense, not much different of the breeder as we can see here.

Really amazing, after all you win some money selling the dogs and if the animal be abandoned, killed (quite common due the bad character) or pass his entire life suffering with an genetical issue, it's not your problem.

Originally Posted by Furyos

sorry i m free and nobody scare me >>> Y DON T CARE ABOUT YOU OR YOUR POLITIK of dicrimination ...

No one would even care if you did only mixes and sold them like this, the main problem is that you made fakes pedigrees, you cheated. No wonder, pedigree dogs are more expensive and the owner can even go to dogshows, win some titles with judges which have no idea of how to judge the breed and believe that his mutts are an standarded dog of the breed czechoslovakian wolfdog.

Originally Posted by Furyos

scc is not you my DEAR ... HAHHAHAH

I would like to see you laughting when people enter against your "new way of breeding" at FCI and SCC. Admin is not SCC or FCI, but there are several breeders worldwide which would love to have your head for try to destruct their beloved breed, myself included.
I dont know how can you sleep at night, knowing you're trying to destruct an historical breed like CzW which you was suposed to protect and love. But the worst, you're burning your reputation not only as breeder but as person, and all that for NOTHING.

Playing with lives for money.

Deplorable.

[Nebulosa]

Seems I've found the brother of my new czechoslovakian wolfdog at French forum

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

Seems I've found the brother of my new czechoslovakian wolfdog at French forum

Very high resemblance!

PS. But I think your dog has more handsome, very typical, goggles and mask...

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Let's be honest, we all know that at least the "C" and "D" litter de la Louve Blanche is a fraud.
And it's finally in the forum.
All I can say, don't let them ( Franck, Sophie, kennel Sun Gifu and, and, and...) off the hook.
One of the advantages of the www. is transparency.

Michael

[Jennin Lauma]

What is the status of wolf x dog crosses (or "wolf hybrids" for clarification, though the term is incorrect for a mix of two Canis Lupus sub species) in FRANCE ? Are they illegal / banned like in UK and Scandinavia for example?
-This would maybe explain why some breeders are trying to use the FCI recognized wolfdog breeds as a safe (but unethical and wrong!) way to own and breed illegal wolf crosses...
Apparently they just don't stop to think about what might happen to the breeds they put at risk while doing so... they might get banned too after the public starts to realize what is going on and looses their respect for the breeds...

And for the view of making money with pedigree dogs, I have to say that I don't think this is worth for the risk of putting these FCI breeds in danger and so digging the ground under own feet, as there are several relatively new "design breeds" that have a higher price than pure bred dogs (even the wolfdog breed). So if someone wnats to make money out of wolfy dogs, they don't need the FCI recognition for that.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Mikael

But in Sweden, we are accused from the begining by the Swedish Kennel Club, we MUST DNA test all Cs Vlcaks and Saarloos to get the pure FCI pedigree .

It's not bad... if such requirement existed in other countries there wouldn't be problem with breeding mixes now. Well, unless the tests were conducted honestly

I don't think Frank realizes how much harm he's doing to all honest French breeders by refusing 'DNA confrontation'. Many good owners/breeders (not the wolf maniacs!) from other countries, who aren't particularly knowledgeable in lines, pedigrees, standard, kennels, etc., but who want a typical, pure bred CSV might give up buying a French pup just to be on the safe side
It would be a pity - I rememeber after visiting French club show Margo and Daiva wrote on the Polish WD there were some interesting breeding dogs desceding from ancestors imported to France years ago. The lines which 'disappeared' in the the Czech Republic and Slovakia but survived in France might be valuable for breed diversification now. Provided foreign breeders are not afraid to use them now...

[Priska182]

Originally Posted by Jennin Lauma

What is the status of wolf x dog crosses (or "wolf hybrids" for clarification, though the term is incorrect for a mix of two Canis Lupus sub species) in FRANCE ? Are they illegal / banned like in UK and Scandinavia for example?

Hybrids are not leagal for common owner. If you want to own an hybride or a pure wolf you need to obtain an "ability certificate"...

Arrêté du 19 mai 2000: http://www.loup.org/jo_19_07.htm

Bing Translator:
S. 1.-the detention of live Wolves of the species Canis lupus, including hybrid individuals whose recent ancestry includes a Wolf, is subject to prefectural authority pursuant to article l. 212 - 1 of the rural code.
With the exception of persons holding wolves at the entry into force of this order, only establishments for breeding or presentation to the public of non-domestic animals receiving an authorization to open in application of articles l. 213 - 3 and l. 213 - 4 of the rural code can obtain such authorization.
Permission is granted for a maximum of five years, which can be renewed at the express request of the beneficiary.
When it allows the hosting of wolves, authorization of opening of the institution, issued pursuant to article l. 213 - 3 of the rural code, is detention authorization in respect of this order.
By way of derogation from the provisions of article 3B of the Decree of 17 April 1981 referred to above, approval of detention is authorization to transport the animals held.
The authorization must be presented whenever the administration officers referred to in article l. 215 - 5 of the rural code.

S. 3 - The detention authorization is not granted if the following conditions are met:
-the animals have a lawful origin;
-the place of accommodation is designed and equipped to meet the physiological needs of the species;
-the applicant has skills ensuring that animals will be treated with care;
-the prevention of risk to safety of the applicant, the security and tranquillity of the third party, to the introduction into the natural environment of wolves, the transmission of human or animal diseases is ensured.


S. 4 - Except for establishments rearing or presentation to the public of non-domestic animals receiving an authorization to open allowing them to maintain wolves, leave prefectural wolves, issued by order, detention may be granted only for specimens present at the date of publication of this order; the reproduction and the replacement of animals are prohibited; for incidental reproduction, the young are, within the period of three months after their birth, transferred to an institution for breeding or presentation to the public of animals of species not servants allowed to host wolves.


S. 5 - Permission States including:
-the duration of the authorisation and the terms of renewal;
-the maximum number of animals which may be held;
-the characteristics which will need to meet animals detention facilities.
Authorization requires the holding by the recipient of a register of entries and exits of animals which appear, for each animal, sex, age or date of birth, identification number, the date of entry and of exit, the name and address of the holder of origin and the destination. The registry must be filled in each input or output operation.

[admin]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

That reminds me at the "Tour de France" (what a coincidence), where all the athletes especially the winners claiming not been on Clenbuterol or other substances.
And of course the positive blood tests lie, they're all honest athletes...
All these slanderers.
By the way, in Heigenbrücken/Germany where Franck took part at the club show with the above mentioned dogs my friend Sona Bognárova and I realized instantly that dogs where American wolfdog crosses.
It's all too visible.

Michael

I think it is visible even more since the breeder feels untouchable by the French kennel club and cheats more and more pedigrees. There is already no doubt that he is producing AWD with CsW pedigrees. It is a fact - also this "athlete" use Clenbuterol. A LOT OF IT...

I think we can easily put ALL de la Louve Blanche dogs as MIXES (since it is not known which are purebreed and which one are mixes - or better said: we have no idea if there are still at least some dogs which are PUREBREED there). Not in the database but in our minds - he is cheating the pedigrees. It is sure. So the whole name of this kennel, all pedigrees coming from this kennel and all kennels using his dogs are worth NOTHING. They are just useless piece of paper....

[draggar]

The issue with dalmatians is that that 100% of them have some genetic issue (kidney failure?) and back in the late 70's or 80's the crossed in one generation of another breed and it cured them of this issue.

Even now, the dogs from that project, even though 99.99% dalmatian are not allowed to be registered as a dalmatian. The reason being is because the majority of the club don't want their advantage taken away. Allowing these dogs in would be a huge benefit and make the breed healthier.

It can go either way. It all depends on how the majority of the club members (or officers?) feel.

Yet other "breeds" thrive on being mixes and want to get acceptance (Inuits) or want their own selective breeding program to be it's own breed (Shiloh Shepherds).

Other times mixed litters are born and paper work is falsified. I know of a malinois / Dutch Shepherd litter but the "breeder" sold them all off as pure malinois (he even got someone who is very well known to sign off on the paperwork so they could get them registered as pure).

Its getting harder to even tell if "purebreds" if they real purebreds or not.

[Mikael]

Originally Posted by draggar

Its getting harder to even tell if "purebreds" if they real purebreds or not.

Very soon it will be very very easy, in 10 years of time we will probably have DNA test on every litter on every breed

Very best regards / M

[GalomyOak]

Lol...AKC already registers these dogs - we call them "All American Dogs", Jing. We only need to give them breeding rights.

[yukidomari]

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

Lol...AKC already registers these dogs - we call them "All American Dogs", Jing. We only need to give them breeding rights.

Congrats goes to the AKC then! But they must modify the name... surely these "All American Dogs" have equal fans in other countries and an arguable claim in this breed's foundation.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Hi Sasha,

can't you get someone of the SKJ having a chat with the FCI guys.
I know that Mr Stefik has quite a lot of influence in the FCI.
It could be organized through the Slovakian club, since Slovakia is the garant of the breed...

Michael

[martiou07]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Hi Sasha,

can't you get someone of the SKJ having a chat with the FCI guys.
I know that Mr Stefik has quite a lot of influence in the FCI.
It could be organized through the Slovakian club, since Slovakia is the garant of the breed...

Michael

Yes good idea Michael, chat with FCI, French club CBEI, SCC ......

Why not speak about this at the world dog show .....