Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs said to be Man Killers

[Mirkawolf]

Phillippe,

I am affraid this forum is kind of very public as well! And if somebody reads here such a BULLSHIT (sorry had to say so) about CSW´s, what will they think?
It shows clearly that Christopher Maddene knows nothing about the history of the breed and nothing about the wolfdogs themselves. God knows from where he got his crazy informations. If he has it from the breeder who sold him his CSW, then it is really bad because Christopher might not be the only one, who was told such insane and untrue informations.
I think it is only good, if people show in the forum that they disagree with things that Christopher says. It helps to make clear to anyone who visits the website and reads about this case to get an idea, what is true and what is false.
On the French forum about the same thing there is more than 90 posts, so why people could not discuss it here also?

Mirka

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf1

On the French forum about the same thing there is more than 90 posts, so why people could not discuss it here also?

No, it is not the point - we can talk about it (and we must talk) but I think Philippe is right: it is impossible to find any logic, arguments or real facts in the texts written by Christopher Maddene.

It is really hard to treat seriously someone who is telling such lies and was not able even to deal with 10 months old CzW female (what finished as tragedy for small kid and also for the dog). But it is not enough if we will only talk about it here. There must be other steps because Christopher published his words in the newspaper so it is much more serious now....

Anyone can talk about everything - we have freedom of speech. But I think Christopher doesn't unterstand what it means and he doesn't know he must be responsible for this what he is telling. Freedom of speech simply do not mean freedom of telling lies....

[Philippe]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf1

On the French forum about the same thing there is more than 90 posts, so why people could not discuss it here also?

Hi, all,

Mirka, it seems there is a misunderstanding about my comments (may be not really clear)... What I wanted to say is : don't look for precise reasons which can explain the way Christopher is thinking such horrors about the CsV... Many things in his words, his attitude, preferences are self-predictive... But if you refer post after post to this person and his article, you maintain attention on him. Now, what about a single opinion faced to numerous ones? Examples, stories, descriptions of what a CsV looks like, act, work, play, coming from many different sources, can help to destroy the bad draw and to give back the right and true vision of the CsV, don't they?

Philippe

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by Philippe

Now, what about a single opinion faced to numerous ones? Examples, stories, descriptions of what a CsV looks like, act, work, play, coming from many different sources, can help to destroy the bad draw and to give back the right and true vision of the CsV, don't they?
Philippe

If they get public, yes, they might change things. But what do you suggest? I know you are about to publish another article in the same magazine, to explain things. But is there something we can do to help?

Mirka

[slarman]

As a person from a country which has no CSW at present,and as a person who is keen to learn more and one day import dogs to Australia,I can honestly ask-WHAT ON EARTH DID CHRISTOPHER MADDENE SAY??????
I couldn't understand any of his inane ramblings that were neither logical or rational.The best I could do was that his 10mth old CSW attacked his 3yr old child,but the circumstances as I understand that basically the child patted or grabbed or pinched the dog,the dog attacked-simple or was it.If you jump out behind an animal and touch it,it will see that action as an attack in a lot of cases and act on it by defending itself,most times it will threat display and move on,but if it sees the attacker as a threat it will bite.The question I'd like to ask was what was the relationship between dog and child,did the child often do this and did the parents teach the child that you should never,ever approach a dog from behind and touch it because it may become agitated,no matter how much you trust the dog.A DOG IS A DOG IS A DOG,it is still 75% wild,it will react by flight or fight,10000 years of domestication has not bred the wolf out of the dog.Children and dogs alone DO NOT mix.Christopher Maddene is a person looking for trouble and shouldn't be given a chihuaua to look after.
Simon

[ligerwolve]

hey everyone, I just want to make 3 points.
1. This guy firstly is obviously biased and why any article would be written on him is beyond me. Firstly he has strong feelings towards war and the dogs use. And I can understand why he is afraid of the breed, any parent would feel that way after what happened. It's not logical it's instinct. So I understand where he is comming from.
2. This guy doesnt sound like he understands k9 behaviour. He never mentioned anything about the animals temperement. This animal could have thought itself dominant to the child and if it hasnt been around children much how is it to know how to react? And lets keep in mind it was only what 10 months old? How can you hold essentually another child responsible. Such a young animal and young child should be very carefully watched. I personally would be helping my 3 year old niece and nephew pat the dog and only for a short time. Children that age cannot help but give the dog a poke any more than a puppy giving a child a nip to see what happens. Thats how all babies learn.
3. Does this guy breed CWD's? Then he has no true understanding of the breed. Yes he can voice his fears, but he obviously has no experience with a group of cwd's so he can hardly be considered a good source of information.
I have carried on a bit but i believe all dogs come from wolves and all breeds needed to carry some level of aggression to perform there jobs. I personally think Kelpies should be watched carefully as they often are overly timid. They are cattle dogs so what is his piont? Sorry Sorry I will go

[Dajka]

Hello at all!and Philippe

I´ve two CWD plus three Childs.

The female dog is 8 years old and the male dog 3 years but i´ve buyed this male dog for 6 weeks ago!
My Childrens are 1,3 and 4 years old...my chidrens have respect to the dogs because of the greatness, they except them and the dogs except the children.
The male dog have had no experience with children, and he have no problems with them.He is very nice to them. In the morning he gave them kisses...

I`ll tell you a nice story:
my second boychild felix was 1year old when he loved to sleep between the legs of my female dog...she loved it,and it was a very nice picture.

My Opinion is that:
You cannot leave a 10 month old Dog with a three years old child alone, because in this age plays every race of dogs very hard and a three years old child is too little for that kind of play and so it will come to an accident...Not the Dog is wrong! Only that person who allows this kind of play.

Phillipe if you need Photos for your article Cwd and Children you can take a look under Dajka Draga Feherlofja, I´m sure you´ll find some

Bye Birgit

[Nebulosa]

....
The dog (wolfdog and even though the wolf) is the mirror of the owner. independent of the breed, the size and the color.
....

[Ori]

Hello!
I was shocked hearing such things about wolfdogs!
I have i male wolfdog, now 2,5 years old,
we have no childrean at home but from time to time I have some guests also with childrean
my wolfdog never acts dangerous!
he loves to play with them, he even listens to their commends!
I have some photos of them if someone can't believe



I also agree that we can't leave a very little child with a wolfdog, but it is the same with any big dog!

As you can see he is really a man killer!

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Ori

As you can see he is really a man killer!

OK, we can add next 6....7(?) real killers....

[Czunksolov]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

....
The dog (wolfdog and even though the wolf) is the mirror of the owner. independent of the breed, the size and the color.
....

EXACTLY.

[freewild]

hello

I made a "petition" against this article moreover thanks to people who agreed to send their experiments to me, I made an article which should leave on the site loup.org if people have knowledge in translation I want their to send well by mail

C B E I should receive the petition and the article very soon if people have remarks that they hessite not

by advance thank you

petition!!



We owners and stockbreeders of Czechoslovakian dogs wolves (C L T) and of the dogs wolves in general are brought to protest high and strong our indignation following the article in the Last News of Alsace and of which here an extract: “Bus if Christopher dedicates a true worship in Saarloos, this dog born in the Thirties of the loves of a German shepherd and Fleur, a she-wolf of Russia, it does not have enough strong words to speak about the Czech wolfhound, a hybridization created in the Eastern European countries, in full period of cold war, a “dangerous aberration”, a killer of men of which it disadvises acquisition formally. “ “Saarloos, like the Czech should remain confidential dogs, animals reserved for people knowing perfectly the behaviors canine and lupin. ”

end of quotation

Indeed the Czechoslovakian Dog Wolf is a dog which was envisaged and raised as a watchdog border, (temperament and endurance higher than B A). Since 1958, by very rigorous selections it is today an excellent dog of work well in its head, needing to be spent daily and to have a very rigorous education. It has a physique and a mentality asking much attention and softness. Much more sensitive than one cannot think it, it has only one only Master, hates loneliness and needs his pack which is often the family. It is very independent and acts in a way posed and considered, it is a dog which deserves itself, which must have a Master conscious of his needs and its needs. In other words informed and considered people.

We know all what such articles can generate (cf rottweiler). Such a judgement is out of matter and lack of objectivity. That concerns the denigration pure and simple, that is not to in no case acceptable and this whatever the race concerned. We deplore this kind of reaction which can come only from ignorant people of the real nature of this splendid dog; because the love of the truth and the love of the dogs go together. This is why to inform on true nature of this race and to put forward its real aptitudes (tracking, obedience, agility etc.) us appears paramount.

We do not doubt your support which you can concretize by signing this petition that we will transmit to the club of race (C B E I)

By advance thank you in the name of impassioned dogs wolves and races in general.

Hello here a small presentation of the Czechoslovakian dog wolf: First of all a little history: In 1955, at the time in CSSR, one crossed by way of biological test the German shepherd with the wolf of Carpates. These tests showed as it is possible to obtain and to as well raise a descent by the crossing wolf/bitch as by the crossing dog/she-wolf. The majority of these products of crossing had the genetic aptitudes necessary to the continuation of the breeding. In 1965, the once finished experimentation itself, one worked out a systematic of this new race, judicious project of breeding to link and draw the best possible party from advantageous qualities of the wolf and favorable aptitudes of the dog. In 1982 the Czechoslovakian dog wolf was recognized as a national race by the committee of associations of stockbreeders of the CSSR of the time. A SUCCESSFUL HYBRIDIZATION The Czechoslovakian Dog Wolf or “Ceskoslovenky Vlcak” is with the Dog wolf of Saarloos one of the two only officially recognized races born from crossing recent between the dog and the wolf, species inter fertile like all are canidés domestic the or wild ones. The history starts into Czechoslovakian, at the end of the Fifties, with the section cynophile of the guards borders of Libejovice (Bohemian of the south), which as many other military units all over the world uses German Shepherds. In order to improve the physical performances and resistance of the dogs, the idea is essential to try crossing with the wolf, then to consign the results of the experiment. The initiator of the program is colonel KAREL HARLT, section head. The first hybrids of she-wolf BRITA and the German Shepherd Cesar Z Brizoveho haje are born on May 26, 1958. BRITA is coupled then with the German Shepherd Kurt Z Vaclavky. The products, including one certain number are sent as Slovakia, are tested from the behavior point of view and endurance, and are crossed with other German Shepherds. The hybrids of 3rd then 4th generation are used without difficulties by the army; certain civil undertake some has their turn the breeding.

Another line is founded with the kennels of the police force of Bychory, with the wolf ARGO and the female German Berger Astra. The regeneration of the German Shepherd is prolonged in the creation of a new race. One starts to speak about "Dog Czech Wolf" and the results of work are published, meeting a clear animosity on behalf of the amateurs of German Shepherds. In the years 1970, the general political context being more critical after the invasion of the country by the troops of the Warsaw Pact, the majority of the dogs are sent as Slovakia, meadows of Malacky, they integrate the kennels of the section of the guards borders of Bratislava. Major Frantisek Rosik deals with the program. A third wolf, Sarik, enrich the livestock: it is coupled with two hybrid females. Within sight of the essential role of the Slovak ones, which will take again the torch of the selection of the race, it from now on is indicated like "Czechoslovakian Dog Wolf"; in Tchéquie, the breeding périclite, before beginning again in 1981 thanks to subjects coming from Slovakia. A last contribution of wolf is operated in 1983 with the crossing of German Shepherd BOJAR VON SCHOTTERHOF and the Ledjy she-wolf. On the whole, the race was thus built starting from four wolves and of various German Shepherds, being thus maintained within the framework of a good genetic variability.


For a long time, the Czechoslovakian authorities cynophiles remain refractory with the recognition of the race. But it is finally thing made in 1982, year with an official club is founded; between 1982 and 1991, 1.552 pups are registered with the book of origins. In 1993, it is the scission of the country, in two independent states; the club also separates in two groups, which each one deal with the breeding in their respective country. The recognition of the race by the FCI becomes completely official in 1994; the responsibility is entrusted by it to Slovakia. The Czechoslovakian Dog Wolf integrates the group of the sheepdogs, with test of work. Into France, it is imported during the Nineties. The race is there still extremely rare, with only some subjects, as it is the case in other European countries. Put aside Tchéquie and Slovakia, it remains a little more frequent in countries bordering like Austria.


My small reaction in response to the messages of the two protagonists at the origin of this post. First of all one can only all regret what arrived at this small girl of course it could not be of it differently, but will know that following this unhappy accident my glance carried to my Dogs did not change for as much. Dice my first visit, dice my first contact with a CLT, I was conscious of that of which I planned to make return to the house. It was not about the "small Doggie" to its mémère with which one was going to play "BABALE", without for that being a deer intended to live out of cage, but well of a very particular Dog with which one was going to maintain a relation quite as particular. Mine (because I have happiness to have two of them) live outside what permanently does not prevent me from being with them (even a little too with the statements of some at the house), they of course côtoient all the other members of the family, the ones more than of others, it is for me a passion and I do not want to force people to divide it. My small daughter as often as it can it, badly likings that it is also often disappointed their attitudes "why do not bring they back not this famous BABALE? ", my small catch is not reassured too much him then I do not force it and redoubles attention when it is with them and as for my wife, she takes the changing during my absence and without aucuns concern. Then if the goal of this article were preventive I find that it was not necessary to write it and if it were very different it were not need to speak about the CLT. I think that just like me, people who became owners of CLT knew very well what they did and this with what to leave it EC marvellous Chien. To say that it was creates and used by people with a quite precise aim in the beginning yes, that there were difficult subjects with starting certainly, but this time there is quite completed, this Dog east left the barracks, intended now for impassioned, selection and the objectives of the stockbreeders turned to other things. That of which it was treated in this article, is not the prerogative of the CLT, any Dog being useful in the army, organizes or gendarmerie is able to hold an individual in respect and to even neutralize it if need be, it was not necessary of him to give exclusiveness in it. What is now likely to occur, it is to attract malevolent people, the undesirable ones to be interested in this marvellous Chien. Then to answer and continue to attract crowd or then, like that were proposed, to prepare something for the day or this kinds ears of the legislators

Hello, I am called Uinseann, but everyone calls me Sean. The EC what I could hear, that wants to say “conqueror” as a Celt, and I find that this first name suits me rather well! That made now a little more than one year that I share my life with my adoptive human family. After having left mom and my brothers and sisters a little before my 3 months I was thus taken charges some by my new mom and my new dad. I was rather content, because I had also full buddies with me: a she-cat and two horses. One has fun often together. I learned how to be wary of their back legs, and they learned how to prevent me when I annoy them too much: they raise their shoes and seem to say to me: “If you given up not in the 10 seconds, the blow will leave! ! ” Ca goes rather well since one never fought. They like when I scrape the chamfer with my teeth to them, there is of them even one of both which tightens me its blow so that I continue. I have chance because dad and mom deal well with me and even if times they are a little severe, I believe that it is because I try to become a small chief. I understood well that that did not go like that. It should be said that dad, as regards buddy-dog, it knows himself there a little, because he always had of it (and apparently they had character! ! !) The morning, when I hear the alarm clock, I will sit down to dimension bed and I look at mom. It is always it which rises in first. I couine a little, I encourage it. When it does not come, and Ben I turn over to lie down and tests itself a little later. I am content when it rises, I say to him hello, and it also it is content. I annoy it a little when it threads its pyjamas, it, that all the time does not make it laugh. Then one goes outside, so that I make my needs. Often I Re-return with it. While it take its shower, me I recouche. As dad sleep, I benefit from it and I go up on the settee. And then after one alarm clock dad. I will give to eat with the horses with him. When I return to the house, Sam who is 6 years old is lunching. Me I wisely wait to dimension of it because when it does not manage to finish its milk bowl, and Ben it gives it to me. It is funny, because it makes like dad and mom: “Sean, sitting, not to move”. She poses the bowl beside my mess tin and she says “go! ” and there I have the right of me empiffrer. Sometimes it plays cat perched with me. I always do not include/understand what she wants but good, I runs to him afterwards and when she climbs some share and that she cry “not” and Ben I stop and I assoie. Ca makes it much laugh! What makes laugh dad and mom, it is that sometimes they leave us all alone in the house to go to seek something outside, and when they return and Ben they all the time find me lying with its feet! I do not see what is funny, it is normal that I supervise my small sister! Sometimes she shouts me after because I wants to play doll's tea party with her, and it appears that I annoy it more than another thing. Such an amount of worse for it, I will seek my girlfriend the she-cat to run to him afterwards. Often it cheating and it is of bad mood, it does not want to play with me. And after it brings back themselves like a flower and comes to prick of the croquettes in my mess tin! ! ! When dad and mom go to work, and that Sam is at the school, I remain at the house, I make a little silly things to occupy myself (I adore to dig holes!). The evening when they return one plays in the garden with my balloon. As soon as the weather is nice, one goes down to the river to bathe. Me I adore water! Or one will walk with the horses. And then after eaten, everyone will lie down. I am tired so much that I sleep of a feature all the night without annoying anybody. And then the alarm clock sounds.

hello with 2 CLT and 3 little children My Dogs like to be inside the House around the whole of day family and night. Maintaining the History: of my children and me had sat in the garden. David and Felix played between the dogs it was a pleasant image. When Felix started to cry (bus fallen by ground; the dogs come and look at what arrives is really pleasant, the dogs deals with my children like its pups…. Simon had 7 months then when it started to cry, the oldest dog comes to him and looks at it wondering which arrives and Sees whether it could help it.

My children David 3 years, Felix 2 years and Simon 12 months live with 2 dogs Czechoslovakian wolf Anka (8 years) and Barnie Z Uher (3 years) together in our house. The dogs live surroundings 90% in the house, in dining room they are there only when I want it, because it is necessary for me of place for that. Anka was 5 years old, when my first David child was born. It accepted immediately and never has was jealous or malicious. At the beginning I showed with my two dogs the worn “Pampers” so that they are accustomed. My Labrador Charlie was a little skeptic at the beginning what changed very quickly. this time we still lived in the apartment with 3 rooms of my husband. (In November 2002, we moved in our own house of series with a small garden). My children are in oneself careful with the dogs and leave them in peace, if it is necessary. One day my small Felix with 13 month wanted to examine the teeth of Anka, to hide between their legs, that appeared comfortable because it fell asleep with the hollow of the belly. It plays that with calms with the children. My Charlie dog died à 15 years last November. Since the 23.01.2005 Barnie lives with us, it was in the emergency mediation, at the beginning I paid particularly attention, because it did not know the environment and secondly front it did not live with children. And thirdly it is still impetuous and thus can without wanting it to wound the little children; as other large dogs can do it too. I go regularly with my dogs in a canine club. Anka makes a program of obedience and of agility and it also à the formation of the dogs of rescue takes part. Barnie takes part in the courses of obedience, the service of protection and the way. As Ca my two dogs are employed to the maximum. Each day one goes for some 3 hours walks and excursions of bicycle with the children and the dogs. The evening, the dogs are on their places of layer in the stay. Barnie was accustomed marvelously. The CLT is dog super which only seeks to be loved. They are perfect dogs for families

The stories does not resemble each other but have a whole a common point: the love of the owners of the dogs and an overflowing passion what do not have this passion and this will to do something with their dog stops very quickly and this in spite of the warnings of the stockbreeders .L' history with my dog is not an account of fairies farmhouse approaches them a real complicity and agreement and this in spite of the silly things: opening of the doors, display of the litter for cat in all the house, hole in the ground or the pup can be put entirely inside without counting the last destruction of door of the bird cage because all alone in the car. If not of good large bursts of laughter. My dog tex adores to sleep the belly in the surface japper in its sleep

with the children it was a little “BRUTUS “but with the age it became more protective became calmer. Tex began in education (first of all socialization then education) and to finish it makes has the hour current of obedience and tracking. The courses of obedience have twice per week; are never very long and the exercises are repeated only if it is not well made; if not it refuses there to continue. The exercises must be varied if not it ignores some. Tex is a dog which includes/understands very quickly but it is necessary that it sees its characteristic intéré it is all that characterizes the race. At the time of stroll it is very fond of delicacies of meeting calves cows sheep and dogs of any hairs .Un day by trotting me with friends I moved away a little from them in a little bulky wood and well I said to him to seek them and it found all the participants of this strolls in a fast way it prevents me if it does not know the people

On the other hand he likes to run after the joggeurs this concern was restored quickly because their educations should not be missed. Impetuosity is overflowing and one must channel this ardour by the long one strolls (it in raffole) but especially he wants to always know or I am are dogs extremely attaching and which unceasingly seek the affection of its Master .je do not have nor not children but in the park downtown he meets a certain number of it and this without concern but always under monitoring brought closer .com me for any dog. My dog in the family is the last of the pack in a hierarchical plan; and it is at the very least of primary importance because they have a very thorough direction of the hierarchy. This is why the Czechoslovakian dog wolf is not an easy dog because it must be to educate in any other manner that major the part of the dogs known as family because, it is necessary to be conscious of the duties and of the need for such a dog a good reflexion is of setting as well as a good knowledge cynophile is advised but all this will not replace the love has to bring to them which must be unbounded that makes it possible to include/understand it well. Education must be strict but in a velvet glove. Are dogs much more sensitive than one cannot think it bus under his rustic carapace hides a heart of “wolf” tender but full with promptness. The endurance belongs to its qualities which make of him an untiring trotter; this is why very long strolls are necessary for him for its balance and its good condition which make of him a partner for days sporting and if you finish tired; he will redemandera of it still always more .Il very quickly recovers in order to be always ready A to set out again for new moment of complicities with its only Master. All the disciplines are carried of its legs tracking, obedience, agility, flyball cani cross-country race, etc…. the whole is to find the good manners of justifies

A dog selected for its aptitudes for raising, in fact for the attack, is by definition a balanced dog, therefore nondangerous with the direction ethologic of the term. Consequently, to put forward this characteristic (race created for the attack) to underline the dangerosity of this dog there there, is rather contradictory, since what characterizes the dangerous dog is the unpredictability and the inconsistency, “qualities” preventing the trainings.

Here while hoping to have been rather clear on true the nature of the Czechoslovakian dog wolf and not Czech wolf!! Thank you impassioned all Czechoslovakian dog wolf which were mobilized and contributed in this article in any forms, testimony or photography.

with the text I added photographs various and varied

I ask you for forgiveness for the length of this text and the some errors which infiltrated in the translation if people wish the text original would be with pleasure as well as the petition

[Margo]

Originally Posted by paida99

with the text I added photographs various and varied

It was very good idea to write such text! I like it.
It is only a pitty you have to prepare and send petitions only because ONE man was not able to handle his dog....

[freewild]

hello


I know well but we cannot accept of such matter more especially as nobody never has (my knowledge has) problems like that.