Wolves metabolism - meat & kidneys trouble

[elf]

I had a talk with a vet specialized in dogs internal metabolism. He told me I should not feed my dog with raw meat ; I argued about wolves diet etc... but he told me the wolves in the wild often died because of kidneys trouble around 8 years of age.
My wonders, what is the average life time for wolves in the wild ? What are the death causes ?
Is it true that wolves often died of kidney troubles because of their raw meat diet ? What implications for wolfdogs diet ?

[Hanka]

Hello Elf,
all my wolfdogs eat raw meat . They never had health problems, dysplasy, alergic problems. They are strong and they can work (pull sledge) to 10 years and more. Raw meat is nature food.
I think, in nature is not much 8years old wolves. maybe in Canada, Rossia. But in Evropa the wolves have not chance to live so long time. So I think health problem in 8 years is nothing for them.

[Flinch]

Hi all,

Please remember that wolves also eat roots, berries etc. Only raw meat will not be a balanced diet. Try to ask yourselves why captive wolves live a lot longer than their wild siblings!

Flinch

[Mikael]

I do not know exactly how mush berry a wolf eats, but it is alot !!!
So 100% raw meat is not a wolfs diet, better to give 75% meat,
and 25% vegetables I think.

Swedish foxes was examend in the winter time and had about 70% of vegetarian diet and only 30% of meat.

I also think it is important to vary the food a little with fish, lamb,
chicken, differant vegetables, berrys and fruit.
I also always put in omega-3 and some olive oil.
And at the moment I still give some puppy dog food.

Regards / Mikael

[Nebulosa]

Wolves not eat only raw meat, they eat bones, cartilages and organs togheter as coat and skin.
If you only give raw meat for your dog he will surelly have kidneys problems as lack of some nutricional points, but if you give a complet carcass this situation change.

And no, wolves don't die with kidney problems caused by raw meat as I know, they die because parasits, wounds and viral illness like distemper and rabies.
A 8 years wolf is already a good age that few animals arrive in nature, with this age his body don't work as when he was yung, not such endurace, not such recovering and not such good imunologic system as before, but even like that you can easly find on youtube a material about the "druid's pack" grey wolves pack guide by an alpha couple with 9 years old wich die in fight with other pack.

[elf]

I'm following BARF diet. For this vet this diet is a real risk for kidneys, so still wondering...
Also, what about average life time of dogs ? For him, they are living older, for what I read it's the opposite, so ...

[Hanka]

Wow, I don´t know if you react to me. Of course not only meat. My wolfdogs have meat + rice or past, vegetables, in the nature they eat wild apples, pears, cherries, etc etc.

[leila]

my dog hate vegetables. any kind of. he eats only meat (raw pig, cow, chicken, fish,...), cow or pig bones, organs and rice somethimes, some olive oil, vegetable soup (eats only "wather" and pasta from it, vegetables not)... he also hates fruits. i give him vitamins - tabletes - in his food also. sometimes i cut the vegetblas in sooo small pieces and give it into rice, and he eats a little bit, but thats it...
i also think, that only meat isnt good. but i know a lot of dogs, they eat only meat and they are healthy.

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by elf

I'm following BARF diet. For this vet this diet is a real risk for kidneys, so still wondering...
Also, what about average life time of dogs ? For him, they are living older, for what I read it's the opposite, so ...

Oh noooo!!! Clasical veterinar and WHO mas eat Your dog in this case? Eukanuba, Hills or others dogs food, who have to sale veterinar?
Me dogs eat only RAW and whe have in Lithuania RAW club and RAW eat dogs like Great Dog, English buldog and chichua chua or Yorkshire terrier. If this dogs cann this eat and be live i think ours wolf- dogs cann this eat.

[Pavel]

Originally Posted by elf

I had a talk with a vet specialized in dogs internal metabolism. He told me I should not feed my dog with raw meat ; I argued about wolves diet etc... but he told me the wolves in the wild often died because of kidneys trouble around 8 years of age.
My wonders, what is the average life time for wolves in the wild ? What are the death causes ?
Is it true that wolves often died of kidney troubles because of their raw meat diet ? What implications for wolfdogs diet ?

The industrial food mafia is very strong and this is reason, why you can hear any mostly stupid things from some vets as well. Remember, that industrial pet food exist 20-30 years only and before were dogs feeding with raw or coocking meat, vegetables, eggs etc. only. I never hear about some diet problems by wolves and think logicaly - if is it true, then just this creatres exist no more on the world. Nature is more clever, than all vets and "diet specialist" together.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by elf

I had a talk with a vet specialized in dogs internal metabolism. He told me I should not feed my dog with raw meat ; I argued about wolves diet etc... but he told me the wolves in the wild often died because of kidneys trouble around 8 years of age.
My wonders, what is the average life time for wolves in the wild ? What are the death causes ?
Is it true that wolves often died of kidney troubles because of their raw meat diet ? What implications for wolfdogs diet ?

Wolves in captivity normally get the same food as wolves in the wild and some of them get over 20. The avarage lifetime for the ones in the wild is around 5 years for European ones (depending where they live of course) because most of them die in the first two years because of starving, parasites, diseases. I never heard of kidney-problems.

[elf]

Thanks from my dog

[Margo]

Originally Posted by elf

Is it true that wolves often died of kidney troubles because of their raw meat diet ? What implications for wolfdogs diet ?

Oh, I see that again the fight about food started here.... But is has NOTHING to do with the difference between dry food and feeding with raw meat.... because the same kind of "problems" will have people feeding their dogs with dry food with high content of pure meat and the same people feeding their dogs with high amount of raw meat...

First, as people already wrote here - PURE meat diet is not NORMAL for CzW because wolves do not eat pure cleaned chickens or beef in the nature... Such type of feeding will always cause health problems because many ingredients which dogs (and wolves) need to survive will be missing... In the nature wolves do not eat fruits and vegetables. The missing minerals and vitamis the get while eating the intestines of the killed animals. So pure meat diet will always be harmful for dogs till it is not supported with adding missing ingredients. But it was not what your vet means...

What your vet said is not bullshit but CAN BE true... Feeding with high amount of pure meat is nothing else as typical ketogenic diet, which is very high in fats and proteins and low in carbohydrates. One one side it is natural diet for wolves but on other ketosis can be really bad to the kidneys.
So for sure you can NEVER use it for dogs which have already problems with the kidneys.
The other question is if our dogs are more like dogs and can not handle such ketogenic diet or are still more like wolves. Anyway also by wolves ketosis led to low-grade of acidosis - it is the reason why wolves must drink large amounts of water to aid in proper digestion.

So if a dog has kindney problems such type of feeding can make the problems bigger. If the dog is healthy but for example because it will not get enough of water and will not excrete uric acid it will cause increased amount uric acid in the blood (-> gout) and the higher blood uric acid level can also increase the risk of kidney failure....

But remember - it 'CAN'... For healthy dog which is similar to a wolf (read: "not degenerated" ) such type of diet (not PURE meat but HIGH amout if meat) can be a good solution as it is as you said "wolves diet"...