Wolf Dog Education

[draggar]

Originally Posted by Rona

One thing is sure: shyness, according to the CSV standard is a vice, not a breed characterisitc

Luna won't go up and be friends with anyone she meets. Not because she is shy but because she won't be instant friends with anyone. If we wanted that we would have gotten a lab.

I found your post very worrying, because people who know little about vlcaks and come to this site and then read that CSV are like wolfdogs/hybrids get a very false impression! Vlcaks should be vlcaks - there is a detailed breed standard and the fact that certain number of individuals don't meet it, due to various reasons, does not automatically mean the breed is similar to wolfdogs or wolf hybrids with random mixture of genetics.

I have *never* called them wolfdogs or wolf-hybrids nor will I ever call them that. This is why I'm calling the UKC club the "United Czechoslovakian Vlcak Club" (UCSVC) - and I was glad to see Marcy's club is the CSVCA (Czechoslovakian Vlcak Club of America). I've stressed that they are vlcaks and not wolfdogs or wolf hybrids (in fact, I stress this on my vlcak sites). There is a bad reputation here in the USA with 'wolf hybrids" (that's a different debate) and I didn't want the vlcak breed to be mixed in with that reputation. I'd be saying the same with Saarloos and Lupo Italianos.

BUT - there is wolf in the breed. Just like Saarloos and Lupi Italianos and (unofficially) German shepherds (moreso in DDR and Czech working lined dogs). I'm not going to deny that fact.

There are quirks (and I don't mean that as a bad thing) in their personality that are not from the German shepherd side so where did they come from? The only time we've seen these quirks, and they were in a much less scale, was in a Czech line German shepherd whose ancestors were part of the vlcak program but stayed on the GSD side (despite the fact that kennels deny this).

When people start to deny where things come from that's where problems start. I don't deny that herding (as in a dog herding sheep) is modified hunting. I also don't deny killer whale and dolphin shows are hunting demonstrations - just modified to look entertaining to us ignorant humans. When you look at it hat way you respect it and when you lose that respect problems happen.

Yes, they are a vlcak and the vlcak is a breed on it's own. We're far enough out from the initial project so we can consider them their own breed. This doesn't mean you can deny where the breed came from.

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

Some of the foundation GSD blood, as I have read several times, came from a wolf in Karlsruhe...does this mean the GSDs of the early 1900's might have behaved...wolfy?

I have video of Strongheart and will have digital video of the original Rin Tin Tin by the end of the weekend. These weren't far from the original GSD (maybe 10-15 years for Strongheart and 15-20 years for Rin Tin Tin). I'm sure people will notice quirks from them.

Sara and dragger own a CW puppy, and also a puppy from my first litter, Luna. At least in Luna's case, I can assure that she was heavily socialized, and spent her first 8 weeks sleeping about 4 meters from my bed. She was picked up at 8.5 weeks, and I feel very confident that she was socialized nicely from then on. She may have been the youngest/only CSV pup to spend some time in Manhatten. I have not had the opportunity to see Luna as an adult, but she sounds in description very much like her mother - suspicious, but open -and a talker. Anthea is a very vocal dog.

Luna is still training to be a service dog for Sara and she did PHENOMINAL in Orlando (even though she worked her rear end off). No weight support and it was mostly "dry" working (working without working). She kept up with us (even after very long days), even on hot days, and did OK with strangers during her breaks. She never freaked out when a server brought food or drinks to our table and managed crowds extremely well, we were very impressed with her. Luna is a great candidate to take over after Zorro.

The temperament issues are with Pollux (who has washed out of the training program but we may give him another try this fall). He is skittish and doesn't like strangers. I've been working on this a lot, giving neighbors treats and telling them NOT to make eye contact - just have their hand out with treats and it's been (slowly) coming along. He is much better than he used to be and he is beautiful (I think that is his saving grace) and very playful and loves the szhutzhund game (if we get his off-lead obedience down we might be able to put a schutzhund title on him). He's an odd fellow, out on the field he's confident and acts like he's the best one out there. He has it in him we're just trying to get it out more often.

Edit: Here is some Strongheart video I put on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8rEpXcAG0E