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Cluby & nařízení Informace o klubech pro ČSV v jiných zemích, nařízení týkající se ČSV a omezení britského Kennel Clubu...

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Old 20-02-2012, 10:00   #1
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Default Nový klub v Anglii

Dobrý den, obracím se na české chovatele, kteří prodali své štěně do Anglie s prosbou. Angličani chtějí u nich naše plemeno zaregistrovat a legalizovat. (Zatím nemůžou např. chodit na anglické výstavy). Potřebují k tomu sehnat ještě několik majitelů čsv. Můžete prosím majitelům svých "anglických" štěňat předat kontakt na admina těchto stránek, aby se s ním spojili? O to samé prosím samozřejmě i slováky.
http://csvclubofgb.forumotion.co.uk/forum
Děkuji
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Old 20-02-2012, 14:06   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanka View Post
Dobrý den, obracím se na české chovatele, kteří prodali své štěně do Anglie s prosbou. Angličani chtějí u nich naše plemeno zaregistrovat a legalizovat. (Zatím nemůžou např. chodit na anglické výstavy). Potřebují k tomu sehnat ještě několik majitelů čsv. Můžete prosím majitelům svých "anglických" štěňat předat kontakt na admina těchto stránek, aby se s ním spojili? O to samé prosím samozřejmě i slováky.
http://csvclubofgb.forumotion.co.uk/forum
Děkuji
posláno :-)
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Old 20-02-2012, 16:53   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanka View Post
Dobrý den, obracím se na české chovatele, kteří prodali své štěně do Anglie s prosbou. Angličani chtějí u nich naše plemeno zaregistrovat a legalizovat.
I'm sorry but it is not the "right" club. What you are advertising are the breeders who are mixing CsW with other breeds! Please do not send any contacts to them!

If you want to support the PUREBREED breeders and owners in UK who are against crosses please contact these people:
http://www.vlcak.co.uk/
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Old 20-02-2012, 17:12   #4
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If you want to support the PUREBREED breeders in UK who are against crosses please contact these people:
http://www.vlcak.co.uk/
This link is not to purebreed breeders - just those owners and enthusiasts who want to protect the breed in the UK and promote it in a realistic and sustainable way. The website is not fully completed yet so please bear with us, but our hand has been forced by this other group of people.
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Old 20-02-2012, 17:59   #5
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Myslím, že jste se nechali vtáhnout do boje několika skupin majitelů ČsV v UK. Snažte se nejprve zjistit si fakta a až potom posílejte svou podporu.
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Old 20-02-2012, 18:18   #6
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Hi Pavel, Shadowland quoted the wrong reply, she makes part of the www.vlcak.co.uk and suport them.
The http://csvclubofgb.forumotion.co.uk/forum are with Happy Feet & co, which are in contact with Paul Winder and OrkWolf, people who breed mixes in UK.
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Old 20-02-2012, 18:22   #7
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Originally Posted by Nebulosa View Post
Hi Pavel, Shadowland quoted the wrong reply, she makes part of the www.vlcak.co.uk and suport them.
The http://csvclubofgb.forumotion.co.uk/forum are with Happy Feet & co, which are in contact with Paul Winder and OrkWolf, people who breed mixes in UK.
Já tu situaci trochu znám, ale právě proto tu píšu, aby si lidé nejprve ověřili fakta a pak až konali.
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Old 20-02-2012, 18:43   #8
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Já tu situaci trochu znám, ale právě proto tu píšu, aby si lidé nejprve ověřili fakta a pak až konali.
I think the main question is that is interesting to some people to advertise and support the wrong club, being the people of this club the main interessed in import pups from "who announce to them and sell easy - for who pay - independant of the owner or its intentions with the breed".
These people dont care about the breed, lines or quality, they only wants to have purebreed CzW because it will sell easily in their new market.
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Old 20-02-2012, 18:56   #9
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Takže pro ty, kteří chtějí podpořit ČsV v UK :
www.vlcak.co.uk - skupinka majitelů, kteří chtějí chovat čistokrevné ČsV a snaží se o jejich uznání v UK.
http://csvclubofgb.forumotion.co.uk/forum - diskuzní skupina, u které je těžko identifikovat, komu patří. Ale podle sdělení chovatelů v UK je napojena např. na chovatele Collinse, o kterém je info v tomto fóru http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21402
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Old 20-02-2012, 20:07   #10
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I have one more question from one of the UK-owners who want to stay anonymous:

One of the Czech breeders advertising herself as representative of the Czech Breed Club is supporting the breeders of the mixes in UK.
It is true that you, Hanka sold the puppy to orkwolf? And thank to this you was made the administrator/moderator of the "club" consisted of the breeders of the mixes?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg moderators GB.jpg (61.5 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg litters CSV GB1.jpg (73.9 KB, 61 views)
File Type: jpg litters CSV GB.jpg (68.3 KB, 55 views)
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Old 20-02-2012, 21:04   #11
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Ať se dívám, jak se dívám na stránkách nevidím moderátora Hanka, ale Brita1 s fotkou vlčice Brity a ty články tam taky nevidím, ale to bude proto, že nejsem registrovaná.
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Old 21-02-2012, 12:27   #12
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Zajímavé je. že na inzerát zveřejněný jinde admin reaguje, ale když chci zadat inzerát tady, tak to nejde od prosince!
A ještě otázka, jak víte , že Hanka podporuje křížence? To hraničí s pomluvou!
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Old 21-02-2012, 12:36   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadeKKK View Post
Zajímavé je. že na inzerát zveřejněný jinde admin reaguje, ale když chci zadat inzerát tady, tak to nejde od prosince!
I do not understand what you mean. According to the ID you are the ArQeVa-breeder. The litter ad was published already long time ago.

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Originally Posted by RadeKKK View Post
A ještě otázka, jak víte , že Hanka podporuje křížence? To hraničí s pomluvou!
Pavel already mentioned topic about the UK "breeder":
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21402

And here one of his advertisings:
http://www.k9puppy.co.uk/PuppiesforS...herd18149.aspx
"...Mother 3/4 CSV, Father Pure Czech Wolf..."
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Old 23-02-2012, 10:46   #14
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Jiřko, kašli na ně....To nemá cenu. Jak ty stránky začaly fungovat, tak se tam hned hrnuly zaregistrovat. A když je admin vykmitnul, protože z toho nechce mít místo pomluv, tak to je najednou "špatná stránka"....
Vždyť je to pořád dokola....
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Old 24-02-2012, 09:02   #15
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Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Club of Great Britain has been an established group since 2011
We thank ‘wolf dog.org’ for giving the club chance to reply to the remarks made here.

We would like to inform readers that this tread on Wolfdog.org is one sided and only the opinion from members of the other group. The members of http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ are in the main non owners of newly imported dogs for example Shadowlands , Rona and others are all breeders / wolf dog org moderators / admins.
The founders of http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ ;- Patryk [Hedeon], Layla[Tupacs2legs] , Hannah Crook [Tassle] , Chris Hind [Pixie] own non FCI and mixed dogs bought from UK Breeders such as Mr Winder/ Mr Collins’orkwolf’ /Andre Tanner/Lee Church and many other members don’t own any Czechoslovakian wolf dogs and have no experience of them.

This group http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ is a secret group and not open to all. We wonder why is this? and as far as our Club is concerned this group has no credibility .

If said members of http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ insist they are promoting the breed why would they not include all known new dogs to the UK, is this not bias ? Surely it would be a benefit to this group to include all newly imported dogs?

Wouldn’t it of been more beneficial to unite than to slander and mis inform readers.
Does this not make the group http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ look stupid and extremely unprofessional?

Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Club of Great Britain was formed by new owners of FCI registered / imported dogs and members interested in owning the breed in the future, Our Club is not managed/run/linked or owned by any established breeder in the UK.

The Club aims are to unite and then pursue Kennel Club Registration of Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs

The Club also aims to:

Promote the interests, welfare and responsible ownership of the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog in the United Kingdom, bring together owners and future breeders and facilitate the exchange of views and information on all subjects appertaining to the breed.

Keep a register of all litters eligible for registration until such time as the breed is recognised by the UK Kennel Club.

Keep accurate records of all health problems and temperament issues in the breed.

In addition to keeping a register of imported FCI registered Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs, necessary to obtain KC recognition, the Club is also keeping a register of UK bred dogs that will be eligible for KC registration once the breed has been recognised.

Our Club has a agreed Constitution and Code of Ethics and the Committee grows stronger every day.

We as a Club have more important roles to play in promoting pure breeding and development of Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs in the UK. We have no time or desire to troll the internet and discredit other groups on forums and social networks. Not like some members of http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ and wolf dog.org who purport themselves as guardians of the breed that troll the internet causing friction and have done zero to promote the breed only within secret societies, resulting only to discredit themselves as guardians.

Surely Admin and Moderators of this site should be clearer on facts before exasperating such a thread and misrepresenting our Club.

Wouldn’t it be more prudent for the wolf dog.org admin on this tread to give a unbias reply?

We hope this corrects the misrepresentation of our Club and of course welcome support from all members.
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Old 25-02-2012, 10:30   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Club GB View Post
The members of http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ are in the main non owners of newly imported dogs for example Shadowlands , Rona and others are all breeders / wolf dog org moderators / admins.
Just to sort out a misunderstanding:

I'm not a breeder of CSVs, nor of any other breed. I have never been a breeder and don't intend to be one. I know some find it hard to belive that somebody might act and devote time and efforts without a direct commercial interest/purpose in mind, but this is not my problem.

Neither am I Admin or moderator of wolfdog.org or any other site. No time, no skills...
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Old 25-02-2012, 10:51   #17
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I have no interest in breeding these dogs - I am an admirer who has seen the damage done by people who wish only to make money from them. I am a 'non-owner' - but I care for the breed.

I would love to see these dogs registered in this country and bred with a desire to protect and further the breed, and not use them purely for financial and/or personal cross-breeding goals.

For the record - I have attempted to join the forum set up by your group and been banned before I have even had a chance to post an introduction and although I have attempted to contact the Admin, I have been given no response.
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Old 25-02-2012, 12:10   #18
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Exactly Rona

I don't own a Csv, I plan to one day, and when I feel ready to bring one into my life, I'd like the breed to be in a better state in the UK than it is now.

The Csv and saarloos have been as a breed abused, misused by those who should've been their guardians here.

My next dog will be an estrela mountain dog, when I look at those within that and other uncommon breeds in the UK, I see passion and a true love and dedication for the breed...then I look at whats happening with the Csv and it saddens me.

To many times have I had the keyboard warrior label thrown at me.
To many times I've been told, it's easy to sit behind a computer and judge, why don't you do something about it...well, now i am.
But it appears taking action to some, is equally unpopular.


But you no what? That's just to bad, because I'm going to be here, supporting the breed and those who want to do it right, wether some like it or not, wether I own a Csv or not, I'll help anyway I can.

So get used to it.



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Old 25-02-2012, 14:30   #19
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I would like to respond, if you excuse me my english... Hope I will be able to post it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Club GB View Post

We would like to inform readers that this tread on Wolfdog.org is one sided and only the opinion from members of the other group. The members of http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ are in the main non owners of newly imported dogs for example Shadowlands , Rona and others are all breeders / wolf dog org moderators / admins.
The founders of http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ ;- Patryk [Hedeon], Layla[Tupacs2legs] , Hannah Crook [Tassle] , Chris Hind [Pixie] own non FCI and mixed dogs bought from UK Breeders such as Mr Winder/ Mr Collins’orkwolf’ /Andre Tanner/Lee Church and many other members don’t own any Czechoslovakian wolf dogs and have no experience of them.
You getting things a little mixed up here, but there is no point in correcting them. Yes, I don't own CSV yet, and others may not own FCI registered dogs, but this does't stop us from seeing difference between pure, ethical breeding and breeding only for profit, with what ever you can get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Club GB View Post

This group http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ is a secret group and not open to all. We wonder why is this? and as far as our Club is concerned this group has no credibility .
Here I would like to straighten one thing up: vlcak.co.uk is accentually no group. It is just website (still under construction) which is aiming to promote the breed, give some basic info about the breed, and most importantly, make people aware of problems these dogs encountered in UK. Make aware of cross-breeding and puppy mass production for sake of money only. To state that in this moment there is no ethical, pure breeding in UK, and if someone wants CSV has to look overseas. If you check this website closely, you will find tere is no mention of club anywhere.

Now about our closed group on Facebook. This group was created mostly for purposes of discussion, regarding matters of stopping unethical breeding, preventing puppy millers (Ork wolf in this case) from causing more damage to the dogs, and breed in this country. For obvious reasons it cold not be public, as we didn't wanted these breeders to access these discussions. Yes, it meant to be a seed of Club as well but we didn't rushed with it, as for this moment there is very little FCI registered dogs in UK (some are owned by Ork Wolf but, we are strongly against his way of breeding). In fact, first official sign on creation of the club is here: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21839 where we would like to invite every one to join.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Club GB View Post

If said members of http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ insist they are promoting the breed why would they not include all known new dogs to the UK, is this not bias ? Surely it would be a benefit to this group to include all newly imported dogs?
Who told you we would not? Is it assumption? Or just a try to discredit? We need as many as possible FCI dogs, same as you. If someone is happy to cooperate, will just make us happy too. But you maybe have in mind we did not invite Ork Wolf to cooperation. Well, he maybe owns FCI CSV but he also represents everything what we trying to fight with. Breeders like him brought CSV to place where they are in this country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Club GB View Post
Wouldn’t it of been more beneficial to unite than to slander and mis inform readers.
Does this not make the group http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ look stupid and extremely unprofessional?
And saying somebody "looks stupid" makes you extremely professional? Come one, you can do better than that
Unite would be a great thing. But... If I am well told co founders of your group are people like Paul Collins, Hanka, and Sansorella. Two of them are people responsible for destroying this breed in UK. Their actions caused UK to be banned from exporting to. For many years they have cross breed, no even thinking about recognition with UK Kennel Club. There was no need. It was nearly impossible to import puppies from Europe, so they could do whatever they wanted. Registration with Kennel Club would only put restrictions and regulations on them, so why to do it if puppy business is going so well? Recent change in DEFRA law (Department for Environment, Food And Rural Affairs) makes now importing dogs from Europe much, much easier. Now, all these cross breeders have to compete with European breeders. That is no good for business... And these European breed dogs have something UK breed dogs have not - pedigrees. So now change of mind, and they going for recognition - hence, your club.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Club GB View Post
Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Club of Great Britain was formed by new owners of FCI registered / imported dogs and members interested in owning the breed in the future, Our Club is not managed/run/linked or owned by any established breeder in the UK.
But is managed by a breeder from Czech Don't forget we saw it on screen shots If you are all new owners, not breeders, you didn't know each other before. Just wonder, how you guys have meet up, organised? This is biggest forum about CSV. Every day, I am reading this and other forums, facebook group, and nowhere no one mentions importing CSV. Just Ork Wolf. How you have promoted your forum, in such short time? There must be some central point, and I bet it is Ork Wolf - Hanka Ltd. How it comes Hanka who sold puppies to Ork Wolf is one of you moderators/admins? How she becomes in such short time one of persons who deicide what is right or what is wrong on the forum? Don't blame me, but conclusions are pretty obvious. So dont tell me you are just owners, unrelated to current breeders ....

In conclusion - I would be very happy to team up with your club, only if I could see it being right. Without Hanka, ork wolf, sansorella , and others UK cross breeders, and puppy millers. Those breeders should never get registered with Kennel Club as breeders. Excluded form development of this breed in this country. But it will never happen, isn't it?
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Old 25-02-2012, 14:31   #20
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I would like to respond, if you excuse me my english... Hope I will be able to post it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Club GB View Post

We would like to inform readers that this tread on Wolfdog.org is one sided and only the opinion from members of the other group. The members of http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ are in the main non owners of newly imported dogs for example Shadowlands , Rona and others are all breeders / wolf dog org moderators / admins.
The founders of http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ ;- Patryk [Hedeon], Layla[Tupacs2legs] , Hannah Crook [Tassle] , Chris Hind [Pixie] own non FCI and mixed dogs bought from UK Breeders such as Mr Winder/ Mr Collins’orkwolf’ /Andre Tanner/Lee Church and many other members don’t own any Czechoslovakian wolf dogs and have no experience of them.
You getting things a little mixed up here, but there is no point in correcting them. Yes, I don't own CSV yet, and others may not own FCI registered dogs, but this does't stop us from seeing difference between pure, ethical breeding and breeding only for profit, with what ever you can get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Club GB View Post

This group http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ is a secret group and not open to all. We wonder why is this? and as far as our Club is concerned this group has no credibility .
Here I would like to straighten one thing up: vlcak.co.uk is accentually no group. It is just website (still under construction) which is aiming to promote the breed, give some basic info about the breed, and most importantly, make people aware of problems these dogs encountered in UK. Make aware of cross-breeding and puppy mass production for sake of money only. To state that in this moment there is no ethical, pure breeding in UK, and if someone wants CSV has to look overseas. If you check this website closely, you will find tere is no mention of club anywhere.

Now about our closed group on Facebook. This group was created mostly for purposes of discussion, regarding matters of stopping unethical breeding, preventing puppy millers (Ork wolf in this case) from causing more damage to the dogs, and breed in this country. For obvious reasons it cold not be public, as we didn't wanted these breeders to access these discussions. Yes, it meant to be a seed of Club as well but we didn't rushed with it, as for this moment there is very little FCI registered dogs in UK (some are owned by Ork Wolf but, we are strongly against his way of breeding). In fact, first official sign on creation of the club is here: http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=21839 where we would like to invite every one to join.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Club GB View Post

If said members of http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ insist they are promoting the breed why would they not include all known new dogs to the UK, is this not bias ? Surely it would be a benefit to this group to include all newly imported dogs?
Who told you we would not? Is it assumption? Or just a try to discredit? We need as many as possible FCI dogs, same as you. If someone is happy to cooperate, will just make us happy too. But you maybe have in mind we did not invite Ork Wolf to cooperation. Well, he maybe owns FCI CSV but he also represents everything what we trying to fight with. Breeders like him brought CSV to place where they are in this country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Club GB View Post
Wouldn’t it of been more beneficial to unite than to slander and mis inform readers.
Does this not make the group http://www.vlcak.co.uk/ look stupid and extremely unprofessional?
And saying somebody "looks stupid" makes you extremely professional? Come one, you can do better than that
Unite would be a great thing. But... If I am well told co founders of your group are people like Paul Collins, Hanka, and Sansorella. Two of them are people responsible for destroying this breed in UK. Their actions caused UK to be banned from exporting to. For many years they have cross breed, no even thinking about recognition with UK Kennel Club. There was no need. It was nearly impossible to import puppies from Europe, so they could do whatever they wanted. Registration with Kennel Club would only put restrictions and regulations on them, so why to do it if puppy business is going so well? Recent change in DEFRA law (Department for Environment, Food And Rural Affairs) makes now importing dogs from Europe much, much easier. Now, all these cross breeders have to compete with European breeders. That is no good for business... And these European breed dogs have something UK breed dogs have not - pedigrees. So now change of mind, and they going for recognition - hence, your club.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Club GB View Post
Czechoslovakian Wolfdog Club of Great Britain was formed by new owners of FCI registered / imported dogs and members interested in owning the breed in the future, Our Club is not managed/run/linked or owned by any established breeder in the UK.
But is managed by a breeder from Czech Don't forget we saw it on screen shots If you are all new owners, not breeders, you didn't know each other before. Just wonder, how you guys have meet up, organised? This is biggest forum about CSV. Every day, I am reading this and other forums, facebook group, and nowhere no one mentions importing CSV. Just Ork Wolf. How you have promoted your forum, in such short time? There must be some central point, and I bet it is Ork Wolf - Hanka Ltd. How it comes Hanka who sold puppies to Ork Wolf is one of you moderators/admins? How she becomes in such short time one of persons who deicide what is right or what is wrong on the forum? Don't blame me, but conclusions are pretty obvious. So dont tell me you are just owners, unrelated to current breeders ....

In conclusion - I would be very happy to team up with your club, only if I could see it being right. Without Hanka, ork wolf, sansorella , and others UK cross breeders, and puppy millers. Those breeders should never get registered with Kennel Club as breeders. Excluded form development of this breed in this country. But it will never happen, isn't it????
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