SVP - when & where?

[Juniorwolf]

I have just been reading the rules(again) for SVP1-3 and I maybe asking stupid but I dont know what is this : "CWBC SR" and "SPZ" ?
...it says at Trial participation conditions part 6)

" The propositions for a trail are to be drawn up by the CWBC SR sufficiently in advance and presented to the SPZ for approval, which in turn sends them to the delegated judge."

I will be very thanksfull for any help I can get to convince Danish Kennel Club to approve these exams

Greetings Rolf

[Juniorwolf]

Ups !!! I am sorry ...I already found out what it is ..it is written earlier in the tekst !

[Juniorwolf]

I have a question about SVP1-3 :

When completed for example SVP1 will the dog have same kind of working certificat as if the dog completed IPO1 ? ...or is it only the fastest dog of each exam(SVP1, SVP2 and SVP3) who will get working certificat ?

Greetings Rolf

[Juniorwolf]

more questions about SVP1-3 :

The course that the dog endurance trial is to be held on must satisfy the following requirements:

"1)at least 2/3 of the course must have a natural surface (grass, field or forest pathways)" ...is it possible to make the course on a asphalt road with grass at the edge of the road(so the dog can choose to run in the grass) or must the whole road be a natural surface(in at least 2/3 of the course) ?

Course shape: a) a circuit, where only overtaking of handlers with dogs occurs, must be at least 5 km in length
b) a straight course, where overtaking and meeting of handlers with dogs occurs, must be at least 10 km in length.
.....does this mean the the course can not be at a normal road with cars and other traffic ?

Greetings Rolf

[Juniorwolf]

Now that I have become breed representative for Czechoslovakian wolfdogs in Denmark(DKK/KHKG) ...the board of special club(KHKG) will have this trial for approval on next board meeting and it should be no problem to get the approval by KHKG
....after approval by KHKG(special club) Danish Kennel Club(Dansk-Kennel-Klub/DKK) must approve it too !

So hopefully I can offer SVP1-3 trials at the 1. Danish Czechoslovakian wolfdog-meeting in 2010

Greetings Rolf

[saschia]

Originally Posted by rolf

So hopefully I can offer SVP1-3 trials at the 1. Danish Czechoslovakian wolfdog-meeting in 2010

I will keep my fingers crossed for you...

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by saschia

I will keep my fingers crossed for you...

Thanks a lot

I have plans of lure coursing and bonitation too ...and ofcourse trip to worlddogshow witch will be in Denmark at same time

Greetings Rolf

[Dayen]

Originally Posted by rolf

I have a question about SVP1-3 :

When completed for example SVP1 will the dog have same kind of working certificat as if the dog completed IPO1 ? ...or is it only the fastest dog of each exam(SVP1, SVP2 and SVP3) who will get working certificat ?

Greetings Rolf

A dog with SVP1-3 (SK) or ZVP1-3 (CZ) doesn't get certificate as IPO1 (you meant permission for working class at all types of dogshows). There are international rules - you want working class, do the IPO or something similar. In CZ we have also ZVV1 and ZPU2 similar to IPO1, with all 3 disciplines as IPO and we get the same certificate as for IPO1.
Also, in CZ you can't get title Czech Champion without an international certificate for working class. So finally, good dog should be clever and handsome too
And to tell the truth, I'm glad. Working dog should do more than just run


But I don't want you to disunderstand me, my dog have got ZVP1, ZVP2 and SVP1 as well. Now I must prepare myself for ZVP3 (100km). My dog is ready everytime, but me not
For my dog this is pleasure. For me pleasure and a hard work.

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by Dayen

A dog with SVP1-3 (SK) or ZVP1-3 (CZ) doesn't get certificate as IPO1 (you meant permission for working class at all types of dogshows).

I don`t understand what you mean ? ....If I have understod this right, you can get CACT(certificate for working class) when passing SVP1-3 and this give your dog right to attend working-class at dogshows.

I am not all sure about the difference between CACIT(international certificate for working class) and CACT, so please correct me if I am wrong ....sorry but I am new in this world of training for exams and titels from dogshows

The more I know about thise trials the easier it will be for me to convince KHKG(special club) and Danish kennel club to approve thise trials in Denmark

In Denmark you need to pass some easier exams to be allowed to train for IPO or BHP(similar to IPO) so this is what we do for now and I also plan to make SVP1 with Uno in October

[Juniorwolf]

Maybe I just don`t understand this text, but does it not say(in the end of the text) that this trials is approved as a working trial and with this trial passed you can get title International champion(can you be international champion in Czech rep. without being Czech champion first?) ? ....and with working trial you can attend working class right ?


Czechoslovak Wolfdog Breeders Club of the Slovak Republic
Trial Rules for dog endurance trial

General provisions

2. 1) The objective of the trial is to create the conditions for systematic monitoring of good breeding practice aimed at attaining the standard of the CW breed. One of the key traits of a CW is its endurance. These Trial Rules are intended for checking the endurance of the CW. The Trial Rules were drawn up by the CW Breeders Club of the Slovak Republic (hereinafter CWBC SR) at the authorisation of the Slovak Hunting Union (SPZ) and were approved by the assembly of the Canine Board of the SPZ on 15 February 2002. the Trial Rules are applicable within Slovak canine units (SKJ) for the CW breed. Passing the trial according to the Trial Rules satisfies the conditions of the working trial for awarding of the title International Beauty Champion – FCI.
   sorry if I ask stupide questions, but I will never learn if I don`t ask

[Juniorwolf]

sorry for the big text

[Nebulosa]

he Trial Rules are applicable within Slovak canine units (SKJ) for the CW breed. Passing the trial according to the Trial Rules satisfies the conditions of the working trial for awarding of the title International Beauty Champion – FCI.

So, that was what I've read too, for homologue the international championship title is needed IPO1 or Sch1 or 40km endurance.

And to tell the truth, I'm glad. Working dog should do more than just run

I agree that run 40km not select behaviour, but select the capacity of the body for work, that is too important as the character.
What's the point to have a dog with super character that isn't able to run few kilometers to catch a bandit and fight with full power, or maybe to walk long and dificult path's for rescue lost people?
Have a dog with bad body and no endurance at work is too bad and even more dangerous than have a dog with no caracter for "work", the dog without behaviour will simply not be used, the dog without resistence will be and can cause some serious problems because this.
Of course I agree that endurance test cannot be considerate exactly a working test because the dog only run, but it test the body capacity of the dog to work, and that is important too seing that some dogs loose their ability to work because the bad selection that only had eyes to win dogshows and impressing judges.
Oterwise, at GSD we can see some show dogs with no behavior even for protect his own territory, with titles as Sch1 or IPO1 only for get the homologation of the Internationa champion, dog's like that never will have body capacity to run as will never work, but can do a very beautifull show at working test in basic level.
In French ( and I think have other countries too) is forbidden to make protection work with CzW (and other breeds), so, if this option of the endurance test not exist these people will never be able to get international champion with their dog's.

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

So, that was what I've read too, for homologue the international championship title is needed IPO1 or Sch1 or 40km endurance.

Thanks for your answer

I agree that run 40km not select behaviour, but select the capacity of the body for work, that is too important as the character.
What's the point to have a dog with super character that isn't able to run few kilometers to catch a bandit and fight with full power, or maybe to walk long and dificult path's for rescue lost people?
Have a dog with bad body and no endurance at work is too bad and even more dangerous than have a dog with no caracter for "work", the dog without behaviour will simply not be used, the dog without resistence will be and can cause some serious problems because this.
Of course I agree that endurance test cannot be considerate exactly a working test because the dog only run, but it test the body capacity of the dog to work, and that is important too seing that some dogs loose their ability to work because the bad selection that only had eyes to win dogshows and impressing judges.
Oterwise, at GSD we can see some show dogs with no behavior even for protect his own territory, with titles as Sch1 or IPO1 only for get the homologation of the Internationa champion, dog's like that never will have body capacity to run as will never work, but can do a very beautifull show at working test in basic level.
In French ( and I think have other countries too) is forbidden to make protection work with CzW (and other breeds), so, if this option of the endurance test not exist these people will never be able to get international champion with their dog's.

and thanks for your opinion/explanation ....I fully agree with this

[Dayen]

Originally Posted by rolf

I don`t understand what you mean ? ....If I have understod this right, you can get CACT(certificate for working class) when passing SVP1-3 and this give your dog right to attend working-class at dogshows.

You asked about certificate, and its not the same thing as CACT or CACIT.

CACT gets the best dog in every cathegory. But certificate gets every dog who made for example IPO... Ask at you kennel club about the diference, they shoul give you better answer. You mixed this two terms together.
In CZ, CACT for SVP1 doesn't mean anything for going to dogshows to the working class. SVP1 is simply too low rated. But, if you want, you can collect several CACT and become Champion of Work. But you don't get Czech Champion for CACT from Slovakia.

About 40km run - I think its too low. If you want certificate for proving endurace of a dog, try to stand for higher rate.
My dog have done ZVP1 and ZVP2 and both without training - i just take my bicycle, my dog and that was all.
But 40km in 4 hours should't be nothing for good dog with good natural endurance. When we finished 40km, my dog wanted wather, 20minutes of rest and than played with others.
70km, well, that's another cup of tea, my dog was tired after we finished. Some of dogs have problem with finishing the ZVP2.

We have got White Switzerland Shepperd and also mixed malamut at ZVP1 and they have no problem with getting excellent mark. Do you still think that 40km is enough for getting certificate for CSW?

No offence (I hope you don't misunderstand me), but you didn't try SVP. I've done three of them with one dog. I know that for beginner looks 40km as a long way to go, but it isn't and shouldn't be for every CSW.
Certificate was meant for a dog that can do more than average dog of a breed. So if you want certificate for SVP2 or SVP3 I thing it's alright, but for SVP1 it would be degradation of endurance of CSW.
Also in SK you don't get the same type of certificate as for IPO1.

And you shold also know that for get the title champion at almost all countries, you don't need any certificate. I thing it's the point behind this all.

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by Dayen

You asked about certificate, and its not the same thing as CACT or CACIT.

CACT gets the best dog in every cathegory. But certificate gets every dog who made for example IPO... Ask at you kennel club about the diference, they shoul give you better answer. You mixed this two terms together.
In CZ, CACT for SVP1 doesn't mean anything for going to dogshows to the working class. SVP1 is simply too low rated. But, if you want, you can collect several CACT and become Champion of Work. But you don't get Czech Champion for CACT from Slovakia.

About 40km run - I think its too low. If you want certificate for proving endurace of a dog, try to stand for higher rate.
My dog have done ZVP1 and ZVP2 and both without training - i just take my bicycle, my dog and that was all.
But 40km in 4 hours should't be nothing for good dog with good natural endurance. When we finished 40km, my dog wanted wather, 20minutes of rest and than played with others.
70km, well, that's another cup of tea, my dog was tired after we finished. Some of dogs have problem with finishing the ZVP2.

We have got White Switzerland Shepperd and also mixed malamut at ZVP1 and they have no problem with getting excellent mark. Do you still think that 40km is enough for getting certificate for CSW?

No offence (I hope you don't misunderstand me), but you didn't try SVP. I've done three of them with one dog. I know that for beginner looks 40km as a long way to go, but it isn't and shouldn't be for every CSW.
Certificate was meant for a dog that can do more than average dog of a breed. So if you want certificate for SVP2 or SVP3 I thing it's alright, but for SVP1 it would be degradation of endurance of CSW.
Also in SK you don't get the same type of certificate as for IPO1.

And you shold also know that for get the title champion at almost all countries, you don't need any certificate. I thing it's the point behind this all.

First of all I really don`t get easily offended but now I really don`t understand ????

CACT I can not find anything about, but CACIT is a Certificate(Certificat d`aptitude au Championnat international de Travail) .....according to FCI ? so I think CACT must be the same as CACIT just national Certificat and not international Certificat ?

My kennel club have no rules for workingclass or International Champion for CSW ....because no one have ever done it ...yet ! I am going to set the rules together with the kennel club at the next board-meeting ...approval of SVP1-3 in Dk will be after I have passed(or tried passing) SVP1 with Uno ...for title Danish Champion dog need only 3 x CAC in DK by 3 different judges ...that is all !

....and no I don`t think 40km is very long way to run for a CSW(I have maybe not tried SVP yet, but I often bicycle/run 15-20km and sometimes more with my dog and we have passed UHP witch is 20km for German shepherds and he could easily run from all of the German shepherds ...and run twice the distance if needed), but many German shepherds(and other working breeds too) would never be able to run 40km in 4 hours !
White German shepherds and Malamute also have better body for running(Malamute is made for running) than "normal" German shepherds so offcourse they can pass 40km in 4 hours ....IF they have body condition for this, witch is the purpose of the trial( The objective of the trial is to create the conditions for systematic monitoring of good breeding practice aimed at attaining the standard of the CW breed. One of the key traits of a CW is its endurance).

What is the name of Certificate for IPO/ZVV1/ZPU2 ?

Do you get CACT for best dog in ZVP1-3 too or is it only in SVP1-3 ?

If I get this right, then when sveral CACT`s is collected you can be working Champion ....that must also mean that you can show your dog in working class ??? ...or how can you be working Champion without working certificat ??? ....sorry, but to me that sounds crazy

"Passing the trial according to the Trial Rules satisfies the conditions of the working trial for awarding of the title International Beauty Champion – FCI." ....If FCI have approved SVP1 as working trial for International beauty Champion, then offcourse it must be good enough for national Champion title too !?!? ....at least this is my opinion

[Dayen]

Originally Posted by rolf

"Passing the trial according to the Trial Rules satisfies the conditions of the working trial for awarding of the title International Beauty Champion – FCI." ....If FCI have approved SVP1 as working trial for International beauty Champion, then offcourse it must be good enough for national Champion title too !?!? ....at least this is my opinion

If I get this right, then when sveral CACT`s is collected you can be working Champion ....that must also mean that you can show your dog in working class ??? ...or how can you be working Champion without working certificat ??? ....sorry, but to me that sounds crazy

I'm sorry I haven't much time for answer now, just this thing:

Every country has different rules for championship. In SK dog doesn't need any working trial to be Slovak Champion of Beauty. Also, in Slovakia, you can get CACT for SVP1 (first dog get it) - so dog can be Slovak Champion of work with just SPV1 - it's very comic situation, don't you thing? So I'm sorry for the mistake, I didn't wrote the country in the title.

But in CZ, you dog must have working certificate (to say in different way - must done a trial that really satisfies international conditions).

There is something wrong with SVP, because only country that allows you to get International Champion for a dog with only SVP is only Slovakia Here in CZ they would think you are kindding in the office, if you want IntCh with just a ZVP or SVP.

Problem is that some things have loose ends. I don't understand SK conditions either, because SVP DOESN'T satisfies the conditions of the INTERNATIONAL working trial, even if SK are telling you that.
SVP is only national trial with only national results. Ask at FCI, you get the same answer. Because for FCI a working doesn't mean a running.

For Int.Ch with CZW, your organization in your country must answer you if you need any trial!!!

[Dayen]

Hey, I goe it! SVP is old. It rules were made when every coutry could named which trial is enough. It was writen BEFORE FCI took the iniciative and made international rules for working dog and SVP didn't fit in it.

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by Dayen

I'm sorry I haven't much time for answer now, just this thing:

Every country has different rules for championship. In SK dog doesn't need any working trial to be Slovak Champion of Beauty. Also, in Slovakia, you can get CACT for SVP1 (first dog get it) - so dog can be Slovak Champion of work with just SPV1 - it's very comic situation, don't you thing? So I'm sorry for the mistake, I didn't wrote the country in the title.

But in CZ, you dog must have working certificate (to say in different way - must done a trial that really satisfies international conditions).

There is something wrong with SVP, because only country that allows you to get International Champion for a dog with only SVP is only Slovakia Here in CZ they would think you are kindding in the office, if you want IntCh with just a ZVP or SVP.

Problem is that some things have loose ends. I don't understand SK conditions either, because SVP DOESN'T satisfies the conditions of the INTERNATIONAL working trial, even if SK are telling you that.
SVP is only national trial with only national results. Ask at FCI, you get the same answer. Because for FCI a working doesn't mean a running.

For Int.Ch with CZW, your organization in your country must answer you if you need any trial!!!

If CACT is not working certificat, then what is working certificat(what is the name of this certificat for IPO) ?

Yes I think working Champion must be more than running, National and International beauty Champion is okey for me with just running.

Organization(DKK) and special club(KHKG) in my country have asked me what CSW will need to get title Int.Ch, because I am breed-representative(protector) of CSW in Denmark ....they don`t know anything about training abilities for CSW and no one have ever tried to make titels Int.Ch or working Champion for CSW in Denmark before, so they really don`t know what will be fair for getting thise titles ? that is why they ask me what do I think .....and I think that CSW must need the same as in countries of origin, but it seems that countries of origin(Czech rep./Slovakia) have different opinions of what is needed for this titels ? ...this is why I ask thise questions here !

BTW : In Denmark we are only 4 members of special club KHKG, and I am the only one who is training and showing CSW in Denmark at this moment.

[Huan]

Dayen, you are wrong. Now I understand why you overreacted on the dog show last time in Bratislava. It's official that SVP1 (not ZVP1) is sufficient to get the International Champion title and your kennel club office has nothing to say because it's FCI board in Belgium that decides about the requirements for IntChampion not the national organisations. It's the fact that FCI did approve SVP as the exam for working class and IntCh title. If your office says different it means they are missinformed. They should just send the papers to Belgium and wait for an reply and not doing any problems.

An example. Amber Wolf which did SVP1:


If you make SVP1 exam in Slovakia you can request an official international working certificate from SKJ by paying 5 EUR.

[Juniorwolf]

Originally Posted by Przemek

Dayen, you are wrong. Now I understand why you overreacted on the dog show last time in Bratislava. It's official that SVP1 (not ZVP1) is sufficient to get the International Champion title and your kennel club office has nothing to say because it's FCI board in Belgium that decides about the requirements for IntChampion not the national organisations. It's the fact that FCI did approve SVP as the exam for working class and IntCh title. If your office says different it means they are missinformed. They should just send the papers to Belgium and wait for an reply and not doing any problems.

An example. Amber Wolf which did SVP1:


If you make SVP1 exam in Slovakia you can request an official international working certificate from SKJ by paying 5 EUR.

Hi Przemek,

Thanks a lot for info

I have just send an email to FCI about this and are waiting for answer
....I will get back with answer from FCI !

btw : will you(and dog) by any chance make more SVP-exams in October this year ? ....I have many questions I would like to ask about this trial