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Upbringing & character How to care for a puppy, how to socialize it, the most common problems with CzW, how to solve them....

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Old 28-12-2011, 21:30   #1
TimoleonVieta
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Default good training/behaviour young CSV

Hi

All things being well I should have a Vlcak bitch from good lines within 2 months.

I have done alot of reading about how bad they can be to train. Does anyone have any stories that offer an exception to this. Has anybody owned a CSV from puppy & not had their sofa partially consumed. Has somebody had an experience when they had a nice car that the CSV did not destroy when young & left in the car for an hour?

Finally did anybody find that socialisation with strangers human & canine came easier than most stories I have read.

It will be my intention for young Vlcak to come with me to the forests daily, to learn soon how to heal & return. Then to the city maybe 3 times a week at heal at a very early age in life. To the pub to watch the football on Saturday & to be close to my sisters baby very early on & as he grows up.

Would be very interested to hear if people have had positive experiences, I have read and understand too much the negative.
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Old 28-12-2011, 21:51   #2
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I don't know so much if it really matters if people have had positive or negative experiences. Each CSV is so different in personality. The dog that may be a breeze inside the home might be more timid and difficult in public. The dog that shows little interest in chewing/destroying may be very difficult to motivate in training. The very social dog (I think of my little Asha!) might bowl over a small child (or large men) in excitement. The very energetic dog might get so crazy that it seems to have no disregard for actually listening, but can go on all day once it actually gets trained. I have all of the above. I would consider every one of my dogs a success story. But each story is different, and none is without it's hurdles. As a whole this breed is very sensitive, and sometimes unforgiving, hence the difficulty - to good and bad treatment. It's why it's so important to start with one puppy only, patience and an open mind - observe and learn from your puppy, and she will do the same from you.
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Old 28-12-2011, 23:15   #3
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Don't think about it as 'bad' to train, think of it as an adventure

whenever you speak to anyone from any breed fancy, they will probably always tell you that all the dogs are different and individuals, but i think with CsV you can expect this to be especially true..

but to answer your question, "Has somebody had an experience when they had a nice car that the CSV did not destroy when young & left in the car for an hour?"

No.
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Old 28-12-2011, 23:38   #4
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all those "naughty" things will only occur if you give a CsV chance to do those things i believe owning a CsV is a learning curve for both pup and owner, you will teach each other things without realising it!

and has already been said ... each dog is different, and instead of trying to change a dog into something it might not want to be, adapt your own way of thinking to understand what you are asking from the dogs POV

with regards to forests and cities - plenty of good quality socialisation at a young age in all areas, and continued socialisation into adulthood will allow your CsV to be able to take these situations in their stride.
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Old 29-12-2011, 02:28   #5
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To the pub to watch the football on Saturday
Most wolfdogs (at least mine) love that...
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Old 29-12-2011, 03:22   #6
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Each CSV is so different in personality. But each story is different, and none is without it's hurdles. As a whole this breed is very sensitive, and sometimes unforgiving, hence the difficulty - to good and bad treatment. It's why it's so important to start with one puppy only, patience and an open mind - observe and learn from your puppy, and she will do the same from you.
Thankyou for the advice, perhaps I am guilty of paying too much attention to the negatives thus far. Yes I plan to learn very much from her, & vice versa all being well that it happens

How was it with you first lone puppy? I feel it may be best this way, although I am thinking to have an older collie as well.(I wrote in another thread) I worry that it would be more difficult when CSV settles in my life to incorporate another dog. & I am hoping a collie will make a good companion with nice differences in each of them to not unite against me!

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Old 29-12-2011, 03:28   #7
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all those "naughty" things will only occur if you give a CsV chance to do those things i believe owning a CsV is a learning curve for both pup and owner, you will teach each other things without realising it!

and has already been said ... each dog is different, and instead of trying to change a dog into something it might not want to be, adapt your own way of thinking to understand what you are asking from the dogs POV
Yes this was very much the case, with my dear deaf collie. It was essential to think very laterally & from the others point of view. I hope this will come as naturally for me with CSV.
Tell me Maddie please, how you might deal with the young vclak if she began to eat your car seat? with my collie it would be a wag of the finger, a glare from me & never again. Although her main trouble in early months was actually being sick on them & then jumping out of car windows!

it will be trained very hard on one thing, she will support Liverpool FC or wont set foot inside my house & never welcome to come for a beer with me!

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Old 29-12-2011, 03:58   #8
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Yes this was very much the case, with my dear deaf collie. It was essential to think very laterally & from the others point of view. I hope this will come as naturally for me with CSV.
Tell me Maddie please, how you might deal with the young vclak if she began to eat your car seat? with my collie it would be a wag of the finger, a glare from me & never again. Although her main trouble in early months was actually being sick on them & then jumping out of car windows!

it will be trained very hard on one thing, she will support Liverpool FC or wont set foot inside my house & never welcome to come for a beer with me!
i would give her a chew toy of some description and remind myself to get heavy duty car seat covers and thats if she was to be on the car seat, i would hope i would have a crate or dog gaurd set up so as to avoid the situation in the firstplace. as the old saying goes ... fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

liverpool? oh no Man Utd all the way :P
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Old 29-12-2011, 05:21   #9
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as the old saying goes ... fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

liverpool? oh no Man Utd all the way :P[/quote]


Haha in Merseyside? so I see you must have steel grills on your house windows

seriously thanks for the advice, I have several vehicles so I will have to judge what is best. But I am hoping she will like sitting next to me when I am driving because I like the company & preferably not in a cage because how can I pat her head on those long drives !
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Old 29-12-2011, 09:51   #10
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Has anybody owned a CSV from puppy & not had their sofa partially consumed.
Yes, mine did not destroy the sofa (only a little fragment of the front door )

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to learn soon how to heal & return.
To learn - sure she will, if you perservere long enough
soon - not necessarily.

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at a very early age in life.
Don't count of that. It depends on many factors inculding the dog's temperamant, the strength of her will, how consistent you are with the training, how often the situation occurs, etc, etc. Usually the bigger change comes around two-three years of age, provided you keep working with the dog despite the results.
First of all you must remember not to show your pup how you do things (open the fridge, cupbaords, windows, unlock doors etc) They learn very quickly the naughty things.
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Old 29-12-2011, 12:21   #11
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Haha in Merseyside? so I see you must have steel grills on your house windows

seriously thanks for the advice, I have several vehicles so I will have to judge what is best. But I am hoping she will like sitting next to me when I am driving because I like the company & preferably not in a cage because how can I pat her head on those long drives !
haha, would you be surprised if i told you my house looked out onto a field, a stones throw from a field to the right, and backs onto a horse paddock?

its no worries ... im still waiting for the day where i can have my own csv, but all it means is that there is more time for research and i'm sure i will never know everything, even when i have one!
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Old 29-12-2011, 20:59   #12
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Hi TimoleonVieta, welcome to the forum!

You will find my stories in English on my webpage. Raksha is still young, but she is much better behaved than what I prepared for according to the warning stories.

She lives outside the house, so the material damage she makes is minimal.

We socialized her thoroughly, there was no panic, she has a calm temperament.
The socialization process taught us, however, that puppy can be surprised or afraid of the strangest things - a limping person, umbrella, playground rocking horse.

Socialization with other canines - we were surprised when she grew adult that she started to growl at some of the female dogs we met. She still can go to a park and play with most of the dogs there, but I have to be careful when introducing her to strange females.
This same-sex hostility is something very common in CSWs, I'm being told.
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Old 30-12-2011, 01:25   #13
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haha, would you be surprised if i told you my house looked out onto a field, a stones throw from a field to the right, and backs onto a horse paddock?

its no worries ... im still waiting for the day where i can have my own csv, but all it means is that there is more time for research and i'm sure i will never know everything, even when i have one!
That sounds idyllic Maddie, what a wonderful place to bring up any dog. I hope when the day comes it will be worth the wait. Thanks very much for your time & trouble
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Old 30-12-2011, 01:43   #14
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Hi TimoleonVieta, welcome to the forum!

You will find my stories in English on my webpage. Raksha is still young, but she is much better behaved than what I prepared for according to the warning stories.
I really enjoyed the webpage, it's a mine of information for the novice & photographer to. Konrad Lorenz seems to have had a good effect on you as well as the breeders good advice you sought. I will look more into Mr Lorenz he's ideas are facinating.

May I ask, considering you had Shiva the cat at the time you brought your puppy home, how you think things might have gone had you had your own 8 month old female collie dog or similar at the home when you introduced Raksha to your lives.

It is a hard thing to hypothesize but do you think this may have helped Raksha bond with other females & been a managable relationship in itself.

I am attracted to this combination because I feel that a well loved & secure collie is one of the most humble animals on earth. That it may prove to be a nice foil & friend for the CSV. Not only that I want a CSV so much but couldn't wait 13 years or more for another collie!
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Old 30-12-2011, 01:50   #15
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First of all you must remember not to show your pup how you do things (open the fridge, cupbaords, windows, unlock doors etc) They learn very quickly the naughty things.
Thankyou for the advice, I shall persevere & remember to be a master of illusion in matters of door opening. Although I think a clever dog can also learn by his or her own initiative. My last dogs mother learned to climb in through the window, walk across the table & eat anything in sight.. she had no role model for this!
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Old 30-12-2011, 10:09   #16
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Hello TimoleonVieta (what an interesting name ),

We have a 4, going on 5, year old CsV female. When she was a small puppy, she craved the company of other dogs - irrespective of sex. About a month after getting her, we were adopted by the tiniest little stray female, whom we dubbed Scrap . She and Shadow immediately became the best of friends, curling up to sleep together in the garden and playing rough and tumble all day long. Scrap has grown up to be a big gentle dog and she and Shadow are still friends except when Shadow comes into season - then poor Scrap is in line to take a real beating , so we must keep them separated for that time. After an initial wariness on Scrap's part, they become friends again once the hormones stop raging (Scrap has been spayed). Right now, we have a new litter of puppies , and again Scrap has to be kept away from Shadow. Interestingly, a neutered male 'stray' we have taken in and our 6 month old female Airedale are not at risk... Once the pups are at the exploring age, Shadow is more than happy to let 'Aunty' Scrap take over as chief babysitter

Female to female hostility is not unheard of in the breed so, were you to get your collie too, just be prepared for the odd time when they will not be friends. The rest of the time, they will get on brilliantly and your CsV will be so happy for the company (4 legged).

We all look forward to seeing pictures and hearing who this puppy is (it is important that you get in contact with some of the breed guardians in the UK as the KC demands 20 individual, unrelated dogs in the country before they will consider recognising the breed - something I am sure you would hope will happen too)
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Old 30-12-2011, 10:27   #17
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Thankyou for the advice, I shall persevere & remember to be a master of illusion in matters of door opening. Although I think a clever dog can also learn by his or her own initiative. My last dogs mother learned to climb in through the window, walk across the table & eat anything in sight.. she had no role model for this!
I don't mean triffles which you mention , but unlocking doors and opening windows with their teeth, getting out of locked crates or cars, etc. etc. I see you belong to the group who enjoy finding things out for themselves.

As somebody wisely mentioned in some other thread, CSVs are "more".... more ingenous, more energetic, more loveable, naughtier, more affective , more determined, etc. than dogs of other breeds.

Good luck with your girl and have fun discoverning the "more" of her.
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Old 30-12-2011, 14:09   #18
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.. isnt TimoleonVieta a book?
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Old 30-12-2011, 17:46   #19
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I don't know so much if it really matters if people have had positive or negative experiences. Each CSV is so different in personality.
I agree, I think every dog is unique and you also need to adapt your methods to what works better with your pup. That's why I think one of the keys to deal with dogs in general is to be open-minded and good at reading them.

Nevertheless, I guess collecting other people's experiences may be helpful.

Mine for example was never a destroyer, he never did any damage, even if he lives indoor and is free to roam around the house when he is alone... but generally he is so tired when I leave him at home that all he wants to do is sleep.

About "training", I wouldn't know since I never did that seriously (only for fun)... personally, I only cared about "education". I ask very "little" to my dog (to be able to walk at heel, with or without a leash on, to stop when I say to stop and to come when I call him) but I tried to make his response to those few requests reliable in more and more difficult situations.

What I noticed with him is that he does not care much for rewards in general. I don't use coercion because I don't like the concept, but even if I did it would not work with him (those few times I had to "force" him to do or not to do something, for emergency, it did more damage than good). He needs to be "convinced" that when you ask him to do something, that's always the best, wiser and more advantageous thing to do. In a few words, that's what makes him "reliable".

About socialization, when I got him at 60 days he was already very self confident and curious, so I didn't have much problem. He did go through a phase (around 7 to 12 months) when he was less confident and more guarded, but never "fearful", and this phase didn't last long. What I noticed about him, which is something that helped me a lot, is that if he encounters something new he never saw before he is "cautious", but he takes him about 10 seconds to decide that strange thing is not a danger and he relaxes quickly... also, if something or someone suddenly scares him or even hurts him or something "traumatic" happens, he will not bear any psychological "scar" or hard feelings, he recovers pretty quickly from such incidents and he quickly forgets about them. I guess this reduced the impact of any mistakes I may have made while socializing him during his growth.

Last edited by Fede86; 30-12-2011 at 18:06.
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Old 30-12-2011, 22:00   #20
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I see you belong to the group who enjoy finding things out for themselves.
this is true for many people, & surely those that ask for advice & then seem to ignore it can be the most infuriating? Certainly I am guilty of this. Sadly the advice must in a way become more logical & cohesive than the impulse to do things my own way.

As a youngster when one is critised too much early on & not heeded then he may become self willed & a little blind to the reason of others. Critical that any advice other than his own could be a poison. Later he finds himself in much trouble if the guardians cannot recover the situation before adulthood.

To try to know oneself, is I think, a little help at least in overcoming these things. People like me must do everything they can to listen carefully & dismiss judiciously. But to not clutter ones head so much, the heart can't think.

But I digress..I am sure you are playing & I thankyou for your good advice, I would never forgive myself if she got hurt due to her own cleverness.
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Good luck with your girl and have fun discoverning the "more" of her.
Cheers, I will smile through the tears!

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Hello TimoleonVieta (what an interesting name ),

Female to female hostility is not unheard of in the breed so, were you to get your collie too, just be prepared for the odd time when they will not be friends. The rest of the time, they will get on brilliantly and your CsV will be so happy for the company (4 legged).
Really appreciate you sharing this I think my situation may end up very similar in the next few years with CSV. It is good to know that Scrap was introduced after Shadow, as were the others you must be a kind soul! I have been worried that it would be very hard that way; CSV then collie, but no, this has helped I think it best I concentrate on CSV alone first, reassured that a new introduction later can be positive for all sides.

I first lived for three years with my collie & her entire pack on the moors before we left together. It was interesting that only my collie bonded with me truly. Despite me offering her brother the same care & exercise it was like he & the 6 or 7 others realised they could not interfere with this bond. How does this work with your pack, is your bond closest with Shadow, Scrap, or equal with both dogs? & has the bond with your first two remained unaffected by the attention you give the others?

With my collie it had repercussions, when they got a chance they tried to kill her quite early on. I had to reorganise the pack leadership quickly & she soon became the alfa between 8 & 10 months old. She became fearless in life & once tried to protect me from a speeding car!


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Nevertheless, I guess collecting other people's experiences may be helpful.
some good & positive experiences may have a place. It is certainly helping me to find a more balanced view.

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About "training", I wouldn't know since I never did that seriously (only for fun)... personally, I only cared about "education". I ask very "little" to my dog (to be able to walk at heel, with or without a leash on, to stop when I say to stop and to come when I call him) but I tried to make his response to those few requests reliable in more and more difficult situations.
Thankyou for the advice, I find it very interesting that the commands were simple but situations gradually increased for him to cope with. It seems that this way he takes the small things you ask very seriously & that they maintain good reason for him. He sounds like a fantastic & faithful friend!

I also do not like encouraging a dog with food, merely that they will like there own & take pleasure from it. In training & learning I need to reserve judgement & plan both ways depending on how I find her young character & how well we can relate & learn without a chicken in my pocket & a car full of stinking tripe
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