Go Back   Wolfdog.org forum > Česky > Vlci a vlčáci

Vlci a vlčáci Vše o zvířatech podobných ČSV... Informace o jiných vlčácích: Saarloosův vlčák, Italský vlčák (Lupo Italiano)...

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 16-11-2011, 23:53   #41
Rona
Distinguished Member
 
Rona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Kraków
Posts: 3,509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orkwolf View Post
Information came from:-
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/czechoslovakianwolfdog.htm
"mother's countries - Czech Republic and Slovak Republic. The first breedings were recorded in Austria, Slovenia, and Hungary; animals were imported to a number of countries."
!!!!!!!!!!?????????
Věříte všemu, co čtete na internetu?

Kde tady je zmínka o "země původu"?
(print screen 31.Oct 2011)

Je vidět, že od 31 X jste změnili motivaci křížení plemen
(print screen 31.Oct 2011)

(print screen 31.Oct 2011)

Sorry, but if somebody changes his mind at such speed, it's hard to belive in anything he/she says
__________________

Rona jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2011, 00:06   #42
yukidomari
Moderator
 
yukidomari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 847
Send a message via Skype™ to yukidomari
Default

Mr. Collin's page writes:

"The Czechoslovakian or Saaloo Wolfdog have the appearance of a wolf, and these dogs are strong, supple, fast, energetic, full of stamina and possess quick reactions.

They display lots of elegance and at the same time can have a look of fierceness - these dogs are without fear and are also very brave.."

Saarloos is not the same as CsV but it is described as the same? Perhaps better knowledge of the breed before creating more? Or is that why they are bred together - they are the same breed to him..

_________________________

Google translate:

Pan Collin na stránce píše:
"Československý vlčák nebo Saaloo mají vzhled vlka, a tito psi jsou silné, pružné, rychlé, energické, plné energie a mají rychlé reakce.

Projevují spoustu elegance a zároveň může mít výraz hněvu - Tito psi jsou bez strachu a jsou také velmi odvážný .. "

Saarloosův není totéž jako CSV, ale je popisován jako stejné? Možná, že lepší znalost plemene před vytvořením více? Nebo je to důvod, proč jsou chováni společně - jsou stejného plemene s ním ..
yukidomari jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2011, 20:21   #43
orkwolf
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hedeon View Post
Just to simplify it, I see 2 main reasons for someone to breed:

1. Breed welfare, love for breed etc,
2. Money

Since cross breeding is no way working for the good of breed (how could it?) OrkWolf in my opinion has only one reason to breed: money. And it confirms in examples like: charging 1000pound for cross puppy, and asking us the other day on the English forum for two bitches just for breeding
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showpos...&postcount=128
Mr Collins claims he is taking good care of his dogs, that they have wonderful conditions. It may be true, I don't know. But in my opinion his taking good care of the dogs is no different of manufacturer taking good care of his machines. After all these machines are bringing him the money. That small difference in attitude but makes it a lot different to me. Another thing I think is trust, as breeder suppose to be trustworthy. And no one should ever trust to any one whose main goal is money. And Mr Collins desire for change from cross to pure breeder by coincidence happened to be while we have been discussing DEFRA (british Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) change rules. For those who don't know: at the moment is quite difficult to import any animal from Europe into UK, basically 9 months of quarantine is required. But it is about to change after 1.1.2012, and quarantine of 21 days only will be in place. So we have been discussing that, making a conclusion that CSV lovers from UK will be finally able to get pure, FCI registered pups from Europe, instead of being doomed for CSV crosses with no papers in price of 1000 or even 1500 pounds for pup. And then comes OrkWolf asking as for help as he now wants to breed pure. Great sense of timing, isn't it? I think if DEFRA would never change the rules for importing pets OrkWolf would never change his mind about cross or pure breeding. Why? Mixes were selling quite fine, as there was no choice. But DEFRA is changing rules, and it may damage a bit the market. Apart of that there are some crazy people in UK promoting pure breeding of CSV. For me OrkWolf is just adopting to new situation. And once again, I think, he is very good businessman, but not necessarily breeder.

Google Translate:
Who do you think you are! You do not know me, you certainly are not qualified to talk. All this talk from a man who doesnt even own a csv, so get off your high horse. Instead of slagging me off who you do not even know, look at others here who openly mix the breed and then put pictures up, I though this site was for Csv wolfdogs, mot mix!

Further Pavel you are debating a experimental mating which took place in CZ in 2003 with a real female Canadian wolf and CSV without registration?! Apparently pups from this mating F1 has been registered as CSV dogs and good laugh about this is that pure CSV is a cross of Carpathian wolf with GSD. Saarloos on the other hand is outcome of Canadian wolf with GSD?.
They have F1 crosses there which possibly has been mixed with breeding of pure CSV and all of them are stating that kennels Passo del Lupo and Foresta Incantata have mixed some of the offspring of this experimental dogs into their breeding.
There is a chance that such dogs are still in CZ so what a laugh they talking about crossbreeds if they mixed in the wrong wolf to start with and potentialy even in some cases selling hybrids! And you bad mouth me!!
You are all Hypocrites! I have a small kennel but it seems to me that all the problems arise in Europe and are far more serious.

http://www.wolfdog.org/site/dbase/d/7853
http://www.wolfdog.org/site/dbase/d/5570
orkwolf jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2011, 22:23   #44
Pavel
Moderator
 
Pavel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,190
Send a message via Skype™ to Pavel
Default

Milý Paule,
prosím, stačí si přečíst usnesení poslední klubové konference, která schválila změnu v Zápisním řádu KCHČSV. Podobní kříženci a jejich potomci nemohou být v ČR zapisováni jako ČsV. Takže Tvé invektivy míří zcela vedle, zřejmě proto, že neznáš situaci, vzhledem k jazykové bariéře.

http://www.cswolfdog.cz/index.php?vi...tent&Itemid=78

"I.4 Za představitele plemene „československý vlčák“ se nepovažují:
a) psi a feny s jiným průkazem původu nežli uznávaným FCI, příp. bez průkazu původu.
b) psi a feny ze spojení rodičů, jimž nebyl vystaven průkaz původu uznávaný FCI, ve kterém jsou uvedeny minimálně 3 úplné generace u všech předků narozených v roce 1999 a později – včetně jedinců importovaných.
c) vyjímkou z bodu b) tohoto článku jsou jedinci, kteří jsou potomky psů zapsaných v registru PK (P reg, Z reg), vzniklých křížením realizovaným na základě zvláště pro tento případ sestaveného plánu evidovaného chovu navrženého chovatelskou komisí, projednaného a schváleného konferencí KCHČSV – viz. článek IV.4 boc C) ZaCHŘ: Evidovaný chov. V takovém případě je chovatelská komise povinna v každoroční zprávě o chovu zveřejňovat všechny dostupné údaje a výsledky evidovaného chovu. O zařazení potomků psů z evidovaného chovu do čistokrevné plemenitby rozhoduje konference KCHČSV dvoutřetinovou většinou hlasů přítomných delegátů."
Pavel jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2012, 19:42   #45
yukidomari
Moderator
 
yukidomari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 847
Send a message via Skype™ to yukidomari
Default

Today I saw that someone had posted OrkWolf's newest mixed-CzW litter:

http://www.orkwolf.co.uk/index.php/photos/new-pups.html

"Pups available from Kizzy our high content Timber Wolf Hybrid and Zavvie our F8 Czech wolfdog." (what is that??)

Which became available just in December..

Despite multiple public warnings here not to place dogs with this mix kennel, it seems they have brought dogs from Od Uhoste (Ennie II od Uhoste) and z Dubnicanky (Brita z Dubnicanky)????


I'm sure these breeders must have been aware.

__

Dnes jsem viděl, že někdo vyslán OrkWolf tyto nejnovější smíšenou CZW vrh:

http://www.orkwolf.co.uk/index.php/photos/new-pups.html

"Štěňata jsou k dispozici od Kizzy náš vysoký obsah Timber Wolf Hybrid a Zavvie naše F8 Česká vlčák." (co je to?)

Který se stal k dispozici jen v prosinci ..

Přes více veřejných varování zde není umístit psy s touto mix chovatelské stanice, zdá se, že přinesli psy od OD Uhoste (Ennie II od Uhoste) a z Dubnicanky (Brita z Dubnicanky)??

Jsem si jistý, že tito chovatelé musel být vědom.
__________________
"Learn to do well; seek judgment."
www.greyfarer.com/
yukidomari jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2012, 20:02   #46
orkwolf
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26
Default What is this to do with you?

Orkwolfs pure FCI registered CsV with ONLY be mated with Pure FCI registered CsV.

Try to mind your own business instead of interfering with other peoples lives and in things you have NO knowledge over!

I have given my word to the breeders that I have bought from that I will NOT cross or mix breed with CsV bought from Europe, I WILL keep that promise.

Nie masz nic lepszego do roboty w swoim życiu?

Moja czysta FCI zarejestrowana CSV TYLKO być kojarzone z Pure FCI zarejestrowanej CSV.

Spróbuj pilnuj swojego nosa zamiast ingerować w życie innych ludzi!

Co daje ci prawo do ingerencji?
orkwolf jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2012, 20:06   #47
yukidomari
Moderator
 
yukidomari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 847
Send a message via Skype™ to yukidomari
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orkwolf View Post
Orkwolfs pure FCI registered CsV with ONLY be mated with Pure FCI registered CsV.
But the puppies won't be able to be registered with anything because they are not KC recognized! So the resulting puppies will all be sterilized and not be bred further?

And why the difference between "pure FCI registered CsV" breeding ethics and un-papered "F8 Czech Wolfdog" mix breeding?

--

Ale štěňátka nebudou moci být registrován nic, protože nejsou KC uznána! Takže výsledné štěňátka budou všechny být sterilizovány a neměli být chováni dále?

A proč je rozdíl mezi "čistými FCI registrovaným CSV" chovných etiky a un-tapetovali "F8 České vlčák" mix chov?
__________________
"Learn to do well; seek judgment."
www.greyfarer.com/
yukidomari jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2012, 20:38   #48
orkwolf
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26
Default FCI vs KC

Jestem właścicielem CSV i Saarloos. Również, hybrydy wilka

Obiecuję nigdy nie mieszać FCI zarejestrowanych psów, które mam, że kupiłem w Europie.

Jaki biznes jest dla ludzi, którzy myślą, że mają prawo do ingerencji ze mną, lub którzy nie rozumieją moje przyszłe cele.

Niechęć do sprzedaży w Wielkiej Brytanii jest hodowla doprowadziło do mieszaniny w pierwszej kolejności.!

Kiedy KC uznanie CSV następnie Orkwolf będzie mógł się zarejestrować z mojego FCI wilczaków rasowych.

Miłego nowego roku.
orkwolf jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2012, 20:40   #49
orkwolf
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26
Default

Tłumaczenie nie jest dobre: {
orkwolf jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2012, 20:41   #50
orkwolf
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 26
Default

pożegnanie
orkwolf jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-12-2012, 20:45   #51
yukidomari
Moderator
 
yukidomari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 847
Send a message via Skype™ to yukidomari
Default

- UK is part of Europe..

- So you will only breed purebred CzW with dogs which have proper registration - but will also continue to breed mixes with dogs which have no registration? What's the difference?

Based on this, I can assume you won't be breeding any of your FCI-registered dogs until/if they become KC recognized then?

And - if not, puppies from your FCI-registered adults who cannot be registered (yet, ..or ever?) are also available to be used in your mix program?

---

- UK je součástí Evropy ..

- Takže se jen chovat plnokrevník CZW se psy, které mají řádné registraci - ale bude i nadále chovat mixy se psy, které nemají žádnou registraci? Jaký je rozdíl?

Na základě toho, mohu předpokládat, nebudete chov žádné z vašich FCI-přihlášených psů, dokud / pokud se stanou KC uznána pak?

A - pokud ne, štěňata z vašich FCI registrovaným dospělých, kteří nemohou být zapsána (? Dosud, .. nebo vůbec) jsou také k dispozici pro použití ve vašem mixu programu?
__________________
"Learn to do well; seek judgment."
www.greyfarer.com/
yukidomari jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2013, 17:45   #52
Rona
Distinguished Member
 
Rona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Kraków
Posts: 3,509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orkwolf View Post
Jestem właścicielem CSV i Saarloos. Również, hybrydy wilka

Obiecuję nigdy nie mieszać FCI zarejestrowanych psów, które mam, że kupiłem w Europie.

Jaki biznes jest dla ludzi, którzy myślą, że mają prawo do ingerencji ze mną, lub którzy nie rozumieją moje przyszłe cele.

Niechęć do sprzedaży w Wielkiej Brytanii jest hodowla doprowadziło do mieszaniny w pierwszej kolejności.!

Kiedy KC uznanie CSV następnie Orkwolf będzie mógł się zarejestrować z mojego FCI wilczaków rasowych.

Miłego nowego roku.

Proč polský jazyk na českém fóru? Jste si jisti, že víte, ze které země pochází Vaše štěně?

Quote:
Why do you write Polish on the Czech forum? Are you sure you know which country your pup comes from?
__________________


Last edited by Rona; 02-01-2013 at 18:03.
Rona jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2013, 08:58   #53
yukidomari
Moderator
 
yukidomari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 847
Send a message via Skype™ to yukidomari
Default

I hear that some breeders in GB make advertisements to sell puppies 'from FCI parents' - yet still without registration ..same as mixed breeding in terms of usefulness to the breed.

great job!! <- this is sarcasm.
__________________
"Learn to do well; seek judgment."
www.greyfarer.com/
yukidomari jest offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2013, 17:07   #54
yukidomari
Moderator
 
yukidomari's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 847
Send a message via Skype™ to yukidomari
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by orkwolf View Post
Orkwolfs pure FCI registered CsV with ONLY be mated with Pure FCI registered CsV.

I have given my word to the breeders that I have bought from that I will NOT cross or mix breed with CsV bought from Europe, I WILL keep that promise.

http://www.k9puppy.co.uk/PuppiesforS...dog-41967.aspx

isn't the male in the photograph FCI-registered Cullen Lucky of Lukava (~10mths)?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2013-10-17 at 7.12.46 AM.jpg (19.7 KB, 13 views)
__________________
"Learn to do well; seek judgment."
www.greyfarer.com/

Last edited by yukidomari; 17-10-2013 at 17:16.
yukidomari jest offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(c) Wolfdog.org