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Old 03-10-2002, 14:24   #1
Per Olav
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Default German sheperd dog vs Alsatian wolfdog

Hi.
Sometime ago it was written on this mailing llist that the former name of
the GSD was German Wolfdog.
I'd like to have more info about this matter. Anyone?

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Per Olav
http://www.norwolf.no




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Old 03-10-2002, 14:49   #2
catar2catars
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Default German sheperd dog vs Germaan wolfdog

Hoi Per,

The former name was not German wolfdog buth
Alsatian wolfdog.
Alsatian = Alsace , a region in Germany.(Elzas)
at http://www.grapevine.net/~wolf2dog/index.html
there is a very well documented article written by Ann Dresselhaus including
copy's of some pages of the originals studbook of the GS and more, also a
copy of a former Belgian magazine about the Alsatian wolfdog.
In Belgium, older people , still speak about "Elzasser" meaning a German
shephard and in older books (for instance Juliette de Bairacly Levy , a
vet.) they write about the alsatian wolfdog , meaning GS.

Greets
Roger
Belgium.
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Old 03-10-2002, 16:39   #3
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Default German sheperd dog vs Germaan wolfdog

Thank you Roger.
Love and .. eh... hugs :-)

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Old 03-10-2002, 16:51   #4
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Default German sheperd dog vs Germaan wolfdog

I believe the name was Alsatian Wolfdog.

Sanna
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Old 06-10-2002, 23:47   #5
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Default German sheperd dog vs Alsatian wolfdog

Hi everyone.

I have read Ann's article regarding the origin of the GSD. In her article
Ann says "The original German Shepherd studbook, Zuchtbuch fur Deutche
Schaferhunde (SZ), shows several pure wolves were used to 'create' the
breed". In my letter to the Norwegian Minister of Justice this statement
may be a valuable one. If the origin of the GSD is a cross of dog and wolf,
there should be no need of a Norwegian banning of the CSV because the
origin of the the two breeds (CSV and GSD) are equal and the GSD is one of
the most popular working breeds in Norway.

The content of Ann's statement regarding the origin of the GSD is denied by
someone obviously very much familiar to the GSD. In order to present facts
I do have to have this statement verified.
Anyone? Please.
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Old 07-10-2002, 00:12   #6
catar2catars
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Default German sheperd dog vs Alsatian wolfdog

Per,
At the same http where you found the article there is a copy of a few pages
of the original zuchtbuch fur deutsche schaferhunde (SZ) Band 1 to 70000
erste teil 1 to 37000 .
Look at number 65 the mother is a mix schaferhund X wolfin.
And there are more on this pages.

Gr.
Roger.
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Old 07-10-2002, 00:17   #7
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Default German sheperd dog vs Alsatian wolfdog

Per,
On the same http where You found the article of Ann Dresselhaus there is a
copy of one page of the orignial zuchtbuch fur Deutsdche Schaferhunde.
for instance nr. 65 "wolffs von wolfsnest" , his mother is a cross between a
German shephard and a wolf.
"wanda-saar halbblut aus schafer und wolfin"

Gr.
Roger
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Old 07-10-2002, 00:51   #8
catar2catars
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Default German sheperd dog vs Alsatian wolfdog

Per,

Try this one:

http://www;grapvine.net/~WOLF2dog/uhistory.htm
than click on the art.icle sept. 18 2000
"history of the german shephard."
there are six copies , one of them is a page of the original zucht book gs.
There you can see for yourself
Ann Dresselhaus can tell You who you have to contact for a copy of the
original.
I'm sure she will help You when she reads this, isn't it Ann?


Succes
Roger.
Belgium.
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Old 07-10-2002, 01:48   #9
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Default German sheperd dog vs Alsatian wolfdog

Quote:
The content of Ann's statement regarding the origin of the GSD is denied by
someone obviously very much familiar to the GSD. In order to present facts
I do have to have this statement verified.
Anyone? Please.
I sent your request to a friend of mine that provided Ann with most of her
documentation. Hopefully he will join this list, or reply to me and I will be
happy to share his answer.
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Old 07-10-2002, 02:28   #10
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Default German sheperd dog vs Alsatian wolfdog

Quote:
http://www;grapvine.net/~WOLF2dog/uhistory.htm
than click on the art.icle sept. 18 2000
"history of the german shephard."
I tried this, but it did not work
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Old 07-10-2002, 02:34   #11
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Default German sheperd dog vs Alsatian wolfdog

Quote:
http://www;grapvine.net/~WOLF2dog/uhistory.htm
than click on the art.icle sept. 18 2000
"history of the german shephard."
I tried this, but it did not work ;(
Check this one:
http://www.grapevine.net/~wolf2dog/uhistory.htm


Greetings,
Margo
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Old 07-10-2002, 13:51   #12
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Default FW: FW: CSV and GSD VAR: Isn't it odd

Hi Margo.

Quote:
I hope it is a joke and you will not unsubscribe. Sorry, but the only
person which can say you to end this topic are other members. And as you can
see they recognized this theme as really interesting... )
Margo
Thank you for your immediate response. No, it was not ment as a joke, honestly
:-)

I was not sure if cross of wolf and GSD is recognized as a topic on our list,
and if this is causing someones trouble, I better leave the list instead of
causing any harm.

As I previously wrote, - this might be an interressting topic regarding the
proposed banning of wolfdogs in Norway. If the popular and most used
workingdog of Norway, the GSD, in its origin is a wolf/dog cross, the
authorities should have problems banning a breed like the CSV.

If a situation like the Norwegian is supposed to occur in other European
countries, then this argument also might be a good one for others:-)

Regards
Per Olav
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Old 07-10-2002, 14:04   #13
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Default FW: FW: CSV and GSD VAR: Isn't it odd

Quote:
I was not sure if cross of wolf and GSD is recognized as a topic on our list,
and if this is causing someones trouble, I better leave the list instead of
causing any harm.
Per Olav
It's not a topic of our list, but have connections with it.
I'm a really interested in crosses between wolf and GSD. I translated some
texts about history of GSD for online service about German Shepherd Dogs and
many of the first GSDs were wolfdogs (you can see it on the photos ). I
also spoke about it with Mr. Hartl and he told me also Stephanitz tryied to
use wolf do make GSD better. The GSD-breeders say now the crosses where shy
and absolutely useless. What's funny: they get entirely other results than
Mr. Hartl 50 years later.... ))

Greetings,
Margo
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Old 07-10-2002, 14:14   #14
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Default FW: FW: FW: CSV and GSD VAR: Isn't it odd

Hi Margo

Thats interesting.
A Norwegian expert on the subject is absolutely denying any wolf/dog crossing
concerning the origin of the GSD, irrespective of the content of the reference
made by Mrs. Dresselhaus.

Per O.
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Old 07-10-2002, 14:30   #15
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Default FW: FW: CSV and GSD VAR: Isn't it odd

Quote:
I hope it is a joke and you will not unsubscribe. Sorry, but the only person which can say you to end this topic are other members. And as you can see they recognized this theme as really interesting... )<<
If it can help to bring the Norwegian authorities on other ideas this is in
favour of all wolfdogs, as wel CSV as wel as SWH, and surely not off topic.

Gr.
Roger
Belgium.
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Old 07-10-2002, 14:38   #16
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Default FW: FW: FW: CSV and GSD VAR: Isn't it odd

Hello,

Quote:
Thats interesting.
A Norwegian expert on the subject is absolutely denying any wolf/dog
crossing concerning the origin of the GSD, irrespective of the content of the reference made by Mrs. Dresselhaus.
Maybe he's not such a big expert after all. It is a well known fact that
wolves were used to create todays GSD. Almost every breed history available
on the web says about wolfdogs used in the breeding.

Greetings,
Przemek
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Old 07-10-2002, 14:43   #17
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Default Re:: CSV and GSD VAR: Isn't it odd

Quote:
Thats interesting.
A Norwegian expert on the subject is absolutely denying any wolf/dog crossing
concerning the origin of the GSD, irrespective of the content of the reference
made by Mrs. Dresselhaus.
Per O.

Can you tell me what expert you are referring to?

Sanna
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Old 07-10-2002, 14:53   #18
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Default VAR: Isn't it odd

Quote:
Maybe he's not such a big expert after all. It is a well known fact that
wolves were used to create todays GSD. Almost every breed history available
on the web says about wolfdogs used in the breeding.
Przemek
Would this fact make the GSD breed qualified as a topic on such lists as this, being a wolf dog breed?

Sanna
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Old 07-10-2002, 14:59   #19
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Default Isn't it odd

Quote:
> Are these available online?
> Sanna
Sorry, but not. You can find the photos and text (german version only) in
"100 Jahre - der Deutsche Schäferhund".
Here is one funny part of a texts you can find there:
"Besides it he fighted against attempts at crossing GSDs with wolfs: this
expert [Stephanitz] knew, wolfsblood is bad for persistence, endurance and
sharpness." )))

Greetings,
Margo


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Old 07-10-2002, 15:03   #20
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Default CSV and GSD VAR: Isn't it odd

Quote:
Maybe he's not such a big expert after all. It is a well known fact that
wolves were used to create todays GSD. Almost every breed history
available on the web says about wolfdogs used in the breeding.
Przemek
...and all we need to do is to show the experts photos of first GSDs breed
by Stephanitz and our F1-F3 crossings ))) He will not be able to show the
differences... ))

Greetings,
Margo
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