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Breed standard & bonitations How typical CzW should look like, measurements and commentaries to the breed standard, information about bonitations and youth presentations....

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Old 30-01-2012, 11:16   #1
yukidomari
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Default 'Vlcak' in Czech language question

If I'm understanding right, VLCAK (minus accents) is the CZ spelling, with Vlciak (minus accents) being the Slovakian spelling of the word.

Can some one who speaks & writes CZ tell what is the correct plural for Vlcak?

As I'm curious on the correct usage. For example, the Komodor club notes the correct plural for their breed is Komodorok, not Komodors, as well as other breeds that retain adaptations of their names in original language.

Thanks!
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Old 30-01-2012, 13:03   #2
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Hi,
the Czech plural for Československý vlčák is Českoslovenští vlčáci. I do not know it for sure in Slovak language, maybe Československí vlčiaci.
But be careful - Czech language is very difficult. Everything depends on in which sentence you want to use it.
For exampl:
Who? Czechoslovakian wolfdogs/Českoslovenští vlčáci
With? S Československými vlčáky
About... O Československých vlčácích
etc.

Isn´t it funny?
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Old 30-01-2012, 13:13   #3
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Wow!
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Old 30-01-2012, 14:23   #4
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Hi,

it is even more complicated in Slovak.

First off all, if it is not in the beginning of sentence, it is never capitalized.
Then, the plural depends on if it is person or thing. The absolutely correct way is to write československé vlčiaky, but as we like the dogs we usually use the form vlčiaci, in that case the proper form would be československí, but on the other hand people that would say vlčiaci usually say čévečka to make sure everybody understands it is not German Shepherd (Alsatian), which are called vlčiak as well by the general public as well as GS owners themselves (sometimes, usually those who own non-pedigree GS or their mix).

And of course depending on the conjugation or how it is called, the spelling (and pronounciation) changes. So it is best to ask somebody to check it for you in the sentence (or even do the translation).

For short translations, you can contact me on my private e-mail, no problem. Even for long sometimes
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Old 30-01-2012, 15:42   #5
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Ok, thanks! I understand it a little, as it seems a bit similar like when conjugating Latin, right? Declensions asides, perhaps, CZ and SL are inflective languages, then?

But I suppose, for adaptation's sake, the 'nominative' usage would be the relevant one..? For as in English we don't care, for example, that Cactus/cacti is the direct object, indirect object, or what .. If we use it as plural, we will always use 'cacti' even though in Latin it would actually depend on the intended use of 'cactus' in the sentence.

Have I understood right?
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Old 30-01-2012, 16:52   #6
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflect...avic_languages

Yeah, basically we conjugate and inclinate everything, including adjectives.

Basicaly, if the rest of the sentence is in English, then nominative is OK (as the English only uses nominatives). Like let's say we want to say "We took our wolfdogs for a long walk today", in Slovak you would say "Dnes sme našich vlčiakov vzali na dlhú prechádzku". So you could say "We took our vlčiaky for a long walk today". But it sounds kinda stupid, sorry to say. But don't take me too seriously, I am quite sensitive to the way things sound like, that's why I hate using localized version of computer programs, as all the things in the menus sound just stupid. I expect they would sound stupid to me also in English if I was native speaker, but as a ex-programmer I am used to that . And it would sound kinda stupid even if you used the proper inclination. .
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Old 30-01-2012, 17:11   #7
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To me sounds better in english sentence english plural with "s":
We walked with our vlcaks.

then czech plural:
We walked with our vlcaky.
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Old 30-01-2012, 17:27   #8
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Hi and thanks for all the input! I suppose it now is something to consider, . .. And I understand, Saschia, that it might sound stupid, because it's the same thing when I read various Asiatic languages as used in English, or vice versa..

But as it is, dog people are sometimes strange... and pay attention to these types of things... So, dogs like Shiba or Akita or any Japanese breed is still just Shiba Inu even in plural, as we don't have differences.. And seeing Shiba INUS sounds stupid to me too.
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Old 30-01-2012, 17:55   #9
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Jing, and you should hear it in Slovak! We incline the first word as the second sounds uninclinable (I am trying to think if there is any noun ending in -u in Slovak in nominative, but remember none), and lots of time we only use the first word to identify the breed.

So we say things like "I saw a Šibu (š is pronounced as sh) finting with Akitou the other day. All the Akity steel the Šibám their chewing toys all the time. Let's keep good distance from those Akít, I don't like the way they look at us." And it is feminine in Slovak, just to be specific
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Old 30-01-2012, 17:57   #10
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i must say, i like the translation czechoslovakian vlcaks very much. it is much better than wolfdog, because many people think, it is a hybrid. that ist some kind american wolfdog... so i like the vlcaks more than vlcaky
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Old 30-01-2012, 18:09   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saschia View Post

So we say things like "I saw a Šibu (š is pronounced as sh) finting with Akitou the other day. All the Akity steel the Šibám their chewing toys all the time. Let's keep good distance from those Akít, I don't like the way they look at us." And it is feminine in Slovak, just to be specific
how interesting and funny!!!! none of the languages i speak are inflective, but i did study Latin for 4 years (but it is not spoken) and even though Czech nor Slovak are Romance languages, I can see many similarities... in classical Latin was the 'problem' of adapting foreign or new words, and names as well..
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Old 30-01-2012, 22:41   #12
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In the times when we still had borders in Europe I used to hike with my dear American friend Ray Coppinger in the National Park Sumava in the Czech Republic.
As I usually did, we crossed the border illegally on some hidden paths in the swamps.
Ray was a little bit worried getting caught and asked me about the consequences.
i told him that they'ed put us in prison and worst of all, they'ed make us learn the Czech language.
The second point frightened him that much that he asked me to go back immediately...

Dobrou noc,
Michael
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Old 30-01-2012, 22:58   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post
The second point frightened him that much that he asked me to go back immediately...

Dobrou noc,
Michael
that's great!
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Old 30-01-2012, 23:16   #14
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I don't know, Michael, from my personal first-hand experience, learning Czech is peanuts to learning French. Of course, the age may have some impact on that

Bonne nuit
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Old 31-01-2012, 04:07   #15
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It's a funny topic, and also really interesting... Wow Czech and Slovak looks for sure more difficult than French (For plural we only put an "s" at the end of the word...).
What is the plural used for Czechoslovakian Vlcak in the USA?
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Old 31-01-2012, 04:54   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Priska182 View Post
What is the plural used for Czechoslovakian Vlcak in the USA?
I guess that's the point of this thread! There isn't a club stance on it yet, I don't think!
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Old 31-01-2012, 05:50   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukidomari View Post
I guess that's the point of this thread! There isn't a club stance on it yet, I don't think!
Ha ha sorry, I probably need to go to bed...
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Old 31-01-2012, 12:52   #18
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And to think, AKC was worried that "Ceskoslovensky" would confuse Americans .

Though we do have the Cesky Terrier here...as I understand that breed was also developed in Czechoslovakia, and wouldn't just be a "Czech Terrier", (same as ours aren't "Czech Wolfdogs"), so maybe someone screwed that one up along the way? Or maybe it should have had Chodsky instead?
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Old 31-01-2012, 13:29   #19
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Well, even thought the Czechoslovakia was the country of origin for this breed, but it was bred in Czech republic. On the other hand, although the first mating for CSW was in Czech republic, the breed itself is the result of work of both Czech and Slovak breeders, and sorry to say, the Slovak part is often passed over (like everybody says it is breed of Mr. Hartl, but most people forget the role of Maj. Rosik). So Czechoslovak is a correct name for the breed.

Chodsky pes is a completely different kind of breed from the Czech Terrier. And it was bred in a region called Chodsko
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