Checking the percentage of wolfsblood

[elf]

Ce ne sont pas des marqueurs de race : ils ne permettront pas de déterminer si les parents de Vorss sont des loups à 100 % ou des hybrides.......

Comme je suis une personne obstinée, je vais prendre contact avec le Service de Recherche et Développement, pour demander si l’on peut obtenir d’autres informations complémentaires par un biais différent.....

I was working for a while on DNA microsatellite evolution and I'm pretty sure you can check whatever you want but it's time and money , except if it fits on a R&D program. I guess I remember that the "Laboratoire d'Ecologie Alpine de Grenoble" was doing research on wolves DNA at some point, worth checking there if you need deeper tests one day.
Regards.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

As far as I know this can only be done by one labaratory in Poland and not as easily as you should think.

Ina

[elf]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

As far as I know this can only be done by one labaratory in Poland and not as easily as you should think.

Ina

Those methods are well known among population genetics researchers, the fact that they are mostly not publicly available is another story. With allelic/haplotypic frequencies of sub-species (Italian, American etc.) one can determine the population origin of an individual. In addition DNA microsatellites evolutionary models are more and more accurate and some suitable markers are available, so we can also have an estimation of the divergence degree.
The fact that these methods are mostly not publicly available is owing to time and money, for example I had the confirmation that the laboratory I told about can provide these methods (they won't because have not the time for that), also they are not astonished that "Antagène" (the French laboratory that provide DNA tests) does not provide it.

[Lorry - MLS]

Originally Posted by elf

I was working for a while on DNA microsatellite evolution and I'm pretty sure you can check whatever you want but it's time and money , except if it fits on a R&D program. I guess I remember that the "Laboratoire d'Ecologie Alpine de Grenoble" was doing research on wolves DNA at some point, worth checking there if you need deeper tests one day.
Regards.

Hello,
Let us can continue this conversation on the French Forum ?
I not mastery not enough English writes to answer you and I am not admitted (supposed) on the English Forum, if I write in Frenchman

Thank you in advance....
Lorry Leclerc

[saschia]

Originally Posted by elf

TIn addition DNA microsatellites evolutionary models are more and more accurate and some suitable markers are available, so we can also have an estimation of the divergence degree.

Yes, but this works (as far as I know) for populations diverged for some significant time. As all CSW are actually descendants of one female wolf, and several female GSD, and as the first pairing was done some 50 years ago, you would get results that some percent of CSW population are 100% GSD and other percent of CSW are 100% carpathian wolf, and the percentage of GSD or wolf in the population of CSW would depend only on the relative amount of female lines used, so in theory if only male descendants of the wolf Brita were used, than according to mitochondria only GSD are present, or on the other hand, if only male descendants of the GSD females were used, than we have only wolf mitochondria...
Of course assuming that actually mitochondria from sperm do not play role.

Does anybody know, if there was found any significant difference in overall DNA between wolf and dogs other than genes for skin/coat/eye pigmentation?

[elf]

Yes, but this works (as far as I know) for populations diverged for some significant time. As all CSW are actually descendants of one female wolf, and several female GSD, and as the first pairing was done some 50 years ago, you would get results that some percent of CSW population are 100% GSD and other percent of CSW are 100% carpathian wolf, and the percentage of GSD or wolf in the population of CSW would depend only on the relative amount of female lines used, so in theory if only male descendants of the wolf Brita were used, than according to mitochondria only GSD are present, or on the other hand, if only male descendants of the GSD females were used, than we have only wolf mitochondria...
Of course assuming that actually mitochondria from sperm do not play role.

To get ride of sex biaised inheritance mtDNA is used in combination with nuclear Y-chromosome and autosomal markers. Furthermore microsatellites are VERY more polymorphic than any other makers, this solves the "signifiant time" needed.

Does anybody know, if there was found any significant difference in overall DNA between wolf and dogs other than genes for skin/coat/eye pigmentation?

I guess this is not the way to look for, promising ways are modifications of mRNA expression and genetic regulatory networks.

[elf]

Originally Posted by saschia

Yes, but this works (as far as I know) for populations diverged for some significant time. As all CSW are actually descendants of one female wolf, and several female GSD, and as the first pairing was done some 50 years ago, you would get results that some percent of CSW population are 100% GSD and other percent of CSW are 100% carpathian wolf, and the percentage of GSD or wolf in the population of CSW would depend only on the relative amount of female lines used, so in theory if only male descendants of the wolf Brita were used, than according to mitochondria only GSD are present, or on the other hand, if only male descendants of the GSD females were used, than we have only wolf mitochondria...
Of course assuming that actually mitochondria from sperm do not play role.

Does anybody know, if there was found any significant difference in overall DNA between wolf and dogs other than genes for skin/coat/eye pigmentation?

If you need you can find many reference papers from http://lib.bioinfo.pl/

[elf]

Good review which gather available computer tools: http://darwin.eeb.uconn.edu/eeb348/s...06/nrg1904.pdf

(Some of these tools was used in the recent work "Conservation Genetics of Wolves and their Relationship with Dogs" (Uppsala university).)

[lupis]

Originally Posted by elf

worth checking there if you need deeper tests one day.

Can you check if breeder use wolf crosses and not real czech wolfdogs?

[elf]

Originally Posted by lupis

Can you check if breeder use wolf crosses and not real czech wolfdogs?

Depend on the wolf used, of the dilution ...
Private companies that provide DNA tests for dog identification for example won't be a great help, you need to get in touch with research department (population genetics, ecology and evolution) of Universities. Also I don't know if exists yet a DNA database of "100% sure" real CsV.

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by lupis

Can you check if breeder use wolf crosses and not real czech wolfdogs?

What save CzW in these cases is that we have little genetic pool because the breed basis is only in 5 lines, so, if you have some tipical dogs, you can start making a genetic bank and compare the suposed mixes DNA with the pure dogs DNA, with that you can get what dogs are mixes and what not.