MISSING credibility of the French pedigrees

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Yes, it is easy to tell "it is not possible", to write here 1000 things why it is not possible. So good, we will write here hundreds pages about terrible french mixes. It is better. Only write and do nothing.

What I see here is more and more forum members who calmly and continously keep asking French owners/breeders to act rationally and DNA test their dogs with the questioned pedigrees. In return we get loads of hysterical, hostile and arrrogant posts with accusations of the Admin, wd database, self-victimization, etc. etc. A lot of insecurity and aggressiveness can be seen, where rational, calm cooperation could be expected on the part the declared "breed lovers".

What do you then propose realistically, Hanka? Because writing that the French Breed Club should function better and the Frenech should bonitate their vlcaks doesn't help solve the problem any further.

Especially, that obligatory bonitation and strong Breed Club did not save Czech breeding from a scandal with breed-mixing and it took honest Czech breeders quite a while to deal with the problem oficially . Unofficially it still exists, because the dogs are still bred on, bonitated etc.

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by Mikael

Maybe a DNA test are to be made at all Bonitations

Best regards / Mikael

And we will soon have twice as many litters from unbonitated parents, as we have now... But of course, the idea of DNA testing of every litter would be great.

[Hanka]

If you think Mutaras, it was "work " of a few people, behind back of all club. Reaction of czech club was quick. These people was kicked out from club goverment. Thanks to members of club. Now is not possible to breed these dogs and their offsprings in countries of origin. It is enough what we need. Breeding in other countries is thing of other clubs in the World. If they do nothing against mixes (not only mutaras)...............:confus ed2

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Hanka

If you think Mutaras, it was "work " of a few people, behind back of all club. Reaction of czech club was quick. These people was kicked out from club goverment. Thanks to members of club. Now is not possible to breed these dogs and their offsprings in countries of origin. It is enough what we need. Breeding in other countries is thing of other clubs in the World. If they do nothing against mixes (not only mutaras)...............:confus ed2

ah.. in this case czech club DOING nothing, when this not are in CZ republik- "not ours house not ours problem"? I good understand? niice - where did a worts about "only we protect breed, the best breeding plan, we very loove CSV"
but and in CZ are suspicious dogs who have example Galiba blood- who make in this case- or this is old problem,- and breed with this dogs today without problem?

[Hanka]

Daiva, you know very well we are NOT garant of breed. = we can do nothing. So we can do things only in Czech- of course.

[Hanka]

And what is with Galiba? How you know he has problem?

[wolfin]

but why in this case others club and people want work with this problem, but not CZ club- now we heard only this " we not, we not can, why" and moore

Galiba - read forume my dear. And think ..

[Hanka]

We have not problem with mixes here. Reason is in hands of clubs of every country. Did your club sent official letter to garant of breed? No? So do it, maybe you will know more.
I write all threads here, don´t worry. But: what is Galiba problem?

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Hanka

We have not problem with mixes here. Reason is in hands of clubs of every country. Did your club sent official letter to garant of breed? No? So do it, maybe you will know more.
I write all threads here, don´t worry. But: what is Galiba problem?

yes yes "not ours house not ours problem"

You send too? I think not. DO you speak with FCI and french club- I think not? do you know concret who is problem? I think not too

for this Hanka you not have a right speak about "bad others countrys" when self doing nothing.

I say read, if you want have all in silver tray? we not have Galiba child in Lithuania but know moore for you.

[Hanka]

Daiva, I need not to send letter to slovak club. Czech club is in contact with them and if we need some info, we ask, it is simply.Everybody can do the same. But when I read your topic, it looks, you need more info. Not me.
I need not to speak with french club. Why yes? I have not question for them.
Why you think, czech club has any problems? You don´t know what we do, you know nothing about czech club. So, please, don´t comment what we do or not....Not everybody must write to WD about every step.
Yes, I read here much about Galiba. But I ask you again: what is his problem? (Easy question)

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Hanka

If you think Mutaras, it was "work " of a few people, behind back of all club. Reaction of czech club was quick. These people was kicked out from club goverment. Thanks to members of club. Now is not possible to breed these dogs and their offsprings in countries of origin. It is enough what we need. Breeding in other countries is thing of other clubs in the World. If they do nothing against mixes (not only mutaras)...............:confus ed2

OK. So I ask again: what do you propose realistically to do, if writing is bad?

Without reliable DNA test results or certified declarations of the fraud witnesses, nothing can be done. All (except the owners ) may see the dogs look strange and do not resemble their parents, but since there are no proofs, the French Kennel Club or FCI can do nothing. BTW I don't think there is a rubric on the bonitation card called "resemblence to parents"

Since the dogs that should be tested are in hands of people who do not want or intend to conduct the tests, only hypocritically shout "we want proofs" nothing can be done except writing and warning potential buyers agaist purchasing dogs from certain kennels that have something to hide.
As you could see such economic pressure evoked fits of anger - so it seems more effective than other measures taken .

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Daiva, I need not to send letter to slovak club. Czech club is in contact with them and if we need some info, we ask, it is simply.Everybody can do the same. But when I read your topic, it looks, you need more info. Not me.
I need not to speak with french club. Why yes? I have not question for them.
Why you think, czech club has any problems? You don´t know what we do, you know nothing about czech club. So, please, don´t comment what we do or not....Not everybody must write to WD about every step.
Yes, I read here much about Galiba. But I ask you again: what is his problem? (Easy question)

Maybe in this case say this in forum who know I think all people who read this forum want know- or problem this make?
Dear Hanka yes, all who is white are in CZ club - this we know very long, and Vaiva say very corect, speak with you like su plikiu pesiotis.
If you not see problem - you realy are great profesional breeder

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Rona

OK. So I ask again: what do you propose realistically to do, if writing is bad?

Without reliable DNA test results or certified declarations of the fraud witnesses, nothing can be done. All (except the owners ) may see the dogs look strange and do not resemble their parents, but since there are no proofs, the French Kennel Club or FCI can do nothing. BTW I don't think there is a rubric on the bonitation card called "resemblence to parents"

Since the dogs that should be tested are in hands of people who do not want or intend to conduct the tests, only hypocritically shout "we want proofs" nothing can be done except writing and warning potential buyers agaist purchasing dogs from certain kennels that have something to hide.
As you could see such economic pressure evoked fits of anger - so it seems more effective than other measures taken .

rona, she not antswer. she say all - this not cz club problem and this not interesing for she.

[Hanka]

It is easy Rona. Poland club can officialy ask FCI or garant of breed about next steps. (If you need info about it). If poland club does not exist- it is problem. So you can ask like privat person, but I am not sure if you will have answer.
But I will always write the same. Reason is in hands of clubs in every country, if they really want breed wolfdogs and care about breed. If goverment of club does not work, members of club can kick up bad leaders out and make new club goverment, which will like our breed. It is easy. Who can change situations in other countries if not club?

Here on WD you can see photos of possible mixes again and again and write about it. But it is not reason.

[Rona]

Originally Posted by wolfin

rona, she not antswer. she say all - this not cz club problem and this not interesing for she.

Calm down Daiva. Hanka's arguments are usually rational and useful and she often has an interesting perspective to problems. I just want to understand her way of reasoning.

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Rona

Calm donw Daiva. Hanka's arguments are usually rational and useful and she often has an interesting perspective to problems. I just want to understand her way reasoning.

I think you see shes way

[Hanka]

Daiva please,
1- dont write me dear. I am not your dear and you know it.
2- I never wrote problem does not exist
3- I never wrote in Czech is everythin white. We have our own problems. But it is not your problem (But you don´t know czech breeding, so you can´t write "we know very long".)
4-Where I wrote I don´t see problem? (I don´t wait answer)
5- I am not professional breeder, I am amateur breeder. And please, don´t comment my breeding.It is not your problem. I don´t comment your too. So respect it please.
All disscuss on WD forum is sometimes like witch hunting club. I will never in this club. I only write my view to solving. And I will repeat it always. If you have other reason (in moment when you have in hand NOTHING) , you can write it here too. and I promise, I will not attack you and your "team".
I remember time, when WD was nice place for writting about wolfdogs.
So I end writting with you again, because it is about nothing. my first thread was for clubs in other countries, where is problem with possible mix dogs.
If you have question to czech or slovak club, write official question. From czech club you will not be without answer.
If you read here, you could read answer from Sonja. Do you mean, everything will be finished in two days? (I dont wait answer from you)

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Hanka

Daiva please,
1- dont write me dear. I am not your dear and you know it.
2- I never wrote problem does not exist
3- I never wrote in Czech is everythin white. We have our own problems. But it is not your problem (But you don´t know czech breeding, so you can´t write "we know very long".)
4-Where I wrote I don´t see problem? (I don´t wait answer)
5- I am not professional breeder, I am amateur breeder. And please, don´t comment my breeding.It is not your problem. I don´t comment your too. So respect it please.
All disscuss on WD forum is sometimes like witch hunting club. I will never in this club. I only write my view to solving. And I will repeat it always. If you have other reason (in moment when you have in hand NOTHING) , you can write it here too. and I promise, I will not attack you and your "team".
I remember time, when WD was nice place for writting about wolfdogs.
So I end writting with you again, because it is about nothing. my first thread was for clubs in other countries, where is problem with possible mix dogs.
If you have question to czech or slovak club, write official question. From czech club you will not be without answer.
If you read here, you could read answer from Sonja. Do you mean, everything will be finished in two days? (I dont wait answer from you)

thanks, you speak very good- i respect this. who know maybe in future we be good friends and breed thogether.

yes without DNA test we not can make next step, but maybe you know in who methods we can begin make this- say who think? maybe CZU laboratory can make this test?

noo this are minimum a few years but are in die point. question why.

realy I think for all people interesing info from your club - can put this? or this info are only for club members why pay a taxes?

[Rona]

Originally Posted by Hanka

But I will always write the same. Reason is in hands of clubs in every country, if they really want breed wolfdogs and care about breed. If goverment of club does not work, members of club can kick up bad leaders out and make new club goverment, which will like our breed. It is easy. Who can change situations in other countries if not club?

Yes, agree... provided the club members and club authorities are not involved in the fraud. I hope there are enough honest members in the French Club, who are able to think in terms of the breed interest rather than nepotism, i.e. friendship with unethical beeders. Otherwise the economic pressure remains the only option.

[Hanka]

Rona, I know a few (in my eyes) good french breeders. So I belive in changes.
Daiva- I have not problem use some your dogs for breeding, if they will have "interest" blood for me. Maybe we have the same idea- to breed wolfdogs "well".
About Prag institut- you must ask Daniela. Not me.
Czech club can cooperate with all clubs from other countries, it is not problem to inform them. On our website you can see contacts, your club can write. Where is problem?
Of course. Some "more detail" info are possible for members of club. It is normal, it is "servis" of club for members.