Black under jaws, from wolf or GSD ??? - Page 2

michaelundinaeichhorn · 20-10-2008, 18:11

Oh now I see

. No I haven´t seen it in wolfs but I must confess I didn´t look for it, I will do next time. Our wolfs don´t have it. I think I can remember some GSD with it.

Ina

Juniorwolf · 20-10-2008, 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Oh now I see

. No I haven´t seen it in wolfs but I must confess I didn´t look for it, I will do next time. Our wolfs don´t have it. I think I can remember some GSD with it.

Ina

Hi Ina,

I train with my CSW`s in club of German shepherds and no one there have never seen it on GSD too, but ofcourse even they havent seen all GSD`s

I was just wondering if it was due to inbreeding ? or maybe somebody know if some German shepherds have it for sure ?
because I can not imagne that it comes from wolf....

Greetings Rolf

michaelundinaeichhorn · 20-10-2008, 19:37

I think I found some:
here Platz 4: http://www.schaeferhunde.de/site/index.php?id=914

http://www.deutscherschaeferhund.net...anox/yanox.jpg

http://www.deutscherschaeferhund.net...ndi/ghandi.jpg

Juniorwolf · 20-10-2008, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

I think I found some:
here Platz 4: http://www.schaeferhunde.de/site/index.php?id=914

http://www.deutscherschaeferhund.net...anox/yanox.jpg

http://www.deutscherschaeferhund.net...ndi/ghandi.jpg

Hi Ina,

Thanks for the links

So I guess that I comes from GSD ...untill I see photos of wolves with the same muzzle

Just to be sure, curly coat and outstanding eyes is due to inbreeding right ? ...or have you seen any wolves or GSD (without inbreeding in their lines) who have any of this ?

Greetings Rolf

michaelundinaeichhorn · 20-10-2008, 20:00

no definetly not, but with outstandig eyes I am not so sure because the only dog I know is not very inbred. Not everything new or unusual must be an inbreeding effect.

Greetings Ina

Nebulosa · 20-10-2008, 20:07

Seems that this wolf have a little bit of cezar nose.

And this more than the first.

Of course, much less than the GSD,but I think if start inbreeding and line breeding in wolves like happen in dogs, few time cezar nose will appear.
When more old the dog seems that this turn more visible.

michaelundinaeichhorn · 20-10-2008, 20:14

Well, that´s interesting though the first one I would see as the normal nose. But the second one seems to be different. Where does this wolf come from?

Juniorwolf · 20-10-2008, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

no definetly not, but with outstandig eyes I am not so sure because the only dog I know is not very inbred. Not everything new or unusual must be an inbreeding effect.

Greetings Ina

I have seen several CSW`s with outstanding eyes, but they all somehow have bonitation where this is not mentioned at all and when I think again at least one of them don`t have strong inbreeding ? ...but all three CSW`s I have seen with curly coat do have strong inbreeding !

Greetings Rolf

Nebulosa · 20-10-2008, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Well, that´s interesting though the first one I would see as the normal nose. But the second one seems to be different. Where does this wolf come from?

I take on Wolfdog.org, Uk by monty Sloan

Other one, this from Großwildfreigehege Gangelt

Wolves have it veery silly, most of then seems not have it.
I had see some fothos of european wolves from the São Paulo zoo, seems they have more cezar nose than these wolves from europe, probably due the high imbreeding, not only cezar nose but some bad formation at body start to appear, like a female wich born with his front paw at the side of the leg.
I think somethings wich we can commonly find at dogs like prognatism lack of tooths and even cezar nose can comes from wolves too, but rarelly we will find wolves with this problem because the natural selection some times and the "not human selection for X or Y carachteristic".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolf

I have seen several CSW`s with outstanding eyes, but they all somehow have bonitation where this is not mentioned at all and when I think again at least one of them don`t have strong inbreeding ?

Outstanding eyes are associate with defects on head shape, we can find some dogs with this problems comming from inbreeding but it's not relactioned with the inbreeding itself.

Juniorwolf · 20-10-2008, 20:47

Very interesting photos from nebulosa

Are thise european wolves ? not to say that wolves can not have this "cesar" nose, but I have read somewhere reliable(unfortunatly I don`t remember where) that some european wolves in the international zoo breeding program back in the `70 accually was not pure breed wolves even that experts was claiming that is was, first 30 years later thise experts confessed that the wolves they delivered to the zoo was not pure breed and therefore many wolves in the zoo`s today is maybe not 100% pure

...did anybody else hear or read about this ?

Greetings Rolf

20-10-2008, 18:11	#21
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	Oh now I see. No I haven´t seen it in wolfs but I must confess I didn´t look for it, I will do next time. Our wolfs don´t have it. I think I can remember some GSD with it. Ina

20-10-2008, 20:07	#26
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	Seems that this wolf have a little bit of cezar nose. And this more than the first. Of course, much less than the GSD,but I think if start inbreeding and line breeding in wolves like happen in dogs, few time cezar nose will appear. When more old the dog seems that this turn more visible. __________________

20-10-2008, 19:37	#23
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	I think I found some: here Platz 4: http://www.schaeferhunde.de/site/index.php?id=914 http://www.deutscherschaeferhund.net...anox/yanox.jpg http://www.deutscherschaeferhund.net...ndi/ghandi.jpg

20-10-2008, 20:00	#25
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	no definetly not, but with outstandig eyes I am not so sure because the only dog I know is not very inbred. Not everything new or unusual must be an inbreeding effect. Greetings Ina

20-10-2008, 20:14	#27
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	Well, that´s interesting though the first one I would see as the normal nose. But the second one seems to be different. Where does this wolf come from?

20-10-2008, 20:47	#30
Juniorwolf Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 575	Very interesting photos from nebulosa Are thise european wolves ? not to say that wolves can not have this "cesar" nose, but I have read somewhere reliable(unfortunatly I don`t remember where) that some european wolves in the international zoo breeding program back in the `70 accually was not pure breed wolves even that experts was claiming that is was, first 30 years later thise experts confessed that the wolves they delivered to the zoo was not pure breed and therefore many wolves in the zoo`s today is maybe not 100% pure ...did anybody else hear or read about this ? Greetings Rolf