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Old 01-10-2012, 18:54   #1
raven
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Default degenerative myelopathy in Crying Wolf

Hi everybody!
I'm writing this post just to explain a case that happend to a very good friend of mine.
He bought a puppy from Crying Wolf,  he had to fight hard in order to obtain his puppy pedigree...near one year with lawyers...
Now he had made the test for degenerative myelopathy in laboklin, and surprise...his dog from Crying Wolf is positive, and the owner of this breeder doesn't make anything, and she doesn't responsabilice of anything...please if you are thinking in buying a healthy puppy don' t buy there...
If someone wants more info contact me...
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Old 01-10-2012, 20:18   #2
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Do you mean by "positive" it is a carrier (N/DM) or he is a sufferer (DM/DM)? A substantial difference. Of what age is the dog in question? Be aware that the DM test for the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog could not be performed until about two years ago and it is even shorter that it became a requirement in breeding to breed for safe (DM tested) combinations, or at least an ethical obligation of the breeder to do so if the breed association of a country did not prescribe it yet as an obligation. Safe combinations mean that also carriers can be born (t would be totally irresponsible from a genetic point to only breed with fully free dogs, but that's another discussion).


Sorry, but I think this is little decent communication and of incomplete provision of information. I am becoming a little tired of such incriminating, damaging and even maybe unjustified statements.

Last edited by buidelwolf; 01-10-2012 at 20:24.
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:44   #3
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The female is more than two years old nowdays...and when I say positive I mean she suffers the illness (DM/DM)...If she was carrier this post has no sense...don't you think? I have the results from laboklin where they say she is ill...not a good new for any owner to know what is going to happen to your loved dog...and not having any reply from the breeder that didn't her "job" well...and this means an ill dog. I think it's a serious matter to leave it that way.
As I said before if someone whats more info I don't have any problem in giving it.
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:04   #4
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Very sad of course and I wish the owner much strength.

Quote:
The female is more than two years old nowdays
If the dog is over two years old, then the test could not be performed at the time of mating, so don’t blame breeders in this case. Tackling this terrible disease does not benefit from it blackening breeders this way.

if you are engrossed into this disease, then you know that we have a database where the results are collected in. I may assume that the owner simply announces the results in it instead of passing information by you through personal messages ?
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Old 03-10-2012, 01:54   #5
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Of course I blame this breeder..in my opinion a good breeder looks for health...if you are not sure you should use a free desease, even not carrier couple for your dog...this is a good breeder, and a good breeder assumes his or her fault....and the info is not throught personal messages. He is my friend and we talk and we go for a walk with our dogs. He not uses any forum and I think is important to share this info to advise future owners, and I did it.
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Old 03-10-2012, 05:20   #6
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Quote:
Of course I blame this breeder..in my opinion a good breeder looks for health...if you are not sure you should use a free desease, even not carrier couple for your dog
You seem to be very obstinate. One more time: at the time of the mating in this example, the test on DM was not yet possible. No breeder could perform it at that time, even not this one! Your allegations in this case are unjustified and serve no purpose. Furthermore you make the issue very unsportsmanlike surfacing old posts of equal muckraking content. Not really a textbook example of decent communication. That is precisely the reason why many enthusiasts nowadays avoid this forum.

If you really want to contribute to the eradication of this disease, ask the owner to convey the results in the aforementioned database as already many did.

Actually you never really introduced yourself on this forum. Do you own a wolfdog yourself or are you orienting? How did you get in contact with our beautiful breed? Just out of curiosity. Or do you only want to provide this information by PM...?

Good luck with your witch hunt against this breeder, some will enjoy it.....!

Last edited by buidelwolf; 03-10-2012 at 05:24.
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Old 03-10-2012, 07:34   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raven View Post
Of course I blame this breeder..in my opinion a good breeder looks for health...if you are not sure you should use a free desease, even not carrier couple for your dog...this is a good breeder, and a good breeder assumes his or her fault....and the info is not throught personal messages. He is my friend and we talk and we go for a walk with our dogs. He not uses any forum and I think is important to share this info to advise future owners, and I did it.
I'm not a fan of Crying Wolf kennel, but how can you blame the breeder if the test for DM had not been available before 2010 , the first, single dogs were tested in late 2010 and the massive testing began in 2011 when Daniela's project was introduced?

I understand the disappointment, but it's not a reason to be unfair!
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Old 03-10-2012, 16:08   #8
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You say the dog is ill, already affected (lameness, dragging it's hindlegs and so on) or is the dog just (DM/DM) tested?
Being (DM/DM) doesn't mean the dog will suffer from this disease necessarily...
In fact the amount of (DM/DM) dogs getting affected in the end is quite small and so far nobody really knows why some dogs get it and others not.
So if the dog is not ill get yourself informed and be careful with any sort of accusations.

Michael
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Old 03-10-2012, 20:01   #9
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I spent my last evenings reading the forum and I found plenty posts against this particular kennel. It's not my place to judge, maybe there's some truth involved, but in this case it's just an unfortunate situation. Sure, if we look at the pdf file showing DM tests, the name 'Crying Wolf' appeares a bit too often... the fact that this test wasn't available till recently is a perfectly good excuse, but from now on, it should be mandatory for all breeding dogs from certain breeds, it isn't that expensive, and it isn't that hard for any breeder to avoid producing affected puppies.

I saw a case recently...it's a terrible sight....the poor dog was barely able to move, he had to be carried everywhere, covered in his own poo most of the time (that's specific to DM)... The only thing he was able to fully control were his eyes, and that was enough for his owner to decide not to put him to sleep...

Of course, DM doesn't affect young dogs (Lord-the dog I was talking about-was almost 10 years old), if he makes his regular exercise daily, and lives in a healthy enviroment it might never be affected. Everywhere you read about it, it says that death comes when vital neural connexions are affected, but in reality if the dog cannot be supervised 24/7 all sorts of stupid accidents can happen, they simply cannot be avoided...

It's criminal from a professional breeder not to spend a few coins to make DM tests for all dogs (including old ones, to warn their offsprings' owners about possible problems). There's no excuse now, but things are still moving slow, very few dogs are DNA tested, and so it happens that you can't find a couple of breeding dogs in planned litters sections, both fully tested. Think about it, a new guy (like me) comes here to look for a puppy and sees these threads...of course next move is to look for a healthy dog rather than one coming from a good line...

How hard is to test your dogs for DM and dwarfism?
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Old 03-10-2012, 20:11   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post
You say the dog is ill, already affected (lameness, dragging it's hindlegs and so on) or is the dog just (DM/DM) tested?
Being (DM/DM) doesn't mean the dog will suffer from this disease necessarily...
In fact the amount of (DM/DM) dogs getting affected in the end is quite small and so far nobody really knows why some dogs get it and others not.
So if the dog is not ill get yourself informed and be careful with any sort of accusations.

Michael


.........................

And the buyer also have the responsibility to look up and ask for health results,,,

And try also to find out who the breeder is, talk to people or look at this forum...

Some CsV is not even pure, so talk to people that knows allot / ask the club´s if you are just a little unsertain...

Look for this test or results...

DNA = DM, Dwarf
X-ray = HD and ED
MH test or breed specific tests as Bonitation Test...

Very best regards / Mikael

PS, And do not look at the dog show results, they mean from little to nothing at all, DS.
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Old 03-10-2012, 23:17   #11
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Buidelwolf...you are obstinated too..I blame not no reply to the owner that is passing throught a bad moment with that news, a good breeder would talk and reply the owner...I not want to start a witch hunt against anybody, only explain a fact that really happend....an yes...I'm a wolfdog owner if not I wouldn't be here..why are you so affected because I explain that situation? And that the breeder does anything and no answer anything to the owner?
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:29   #12
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I agree and think the breeder should of course respond and help the owner at least with advice. It's the responsibility of a decent breeder even if it were not possible to screen for a problem at the time.
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Old 06-10-2012, 15:24   #13
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Edit molnar is an imposter and a liar. She still owes me pedigree for my dog.She doesnt reply in e-mails and the few times she does she is lying.she was realy typical and professional until she got the money.DO NOT make business with her.
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Old 06-10-2012, 17:25   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conan cwd View Post
Edit molnar is an imposter and a liar. She still owes me pedigree for my dog.She doesnt reply in e-mails and the few times she does she is lying.she was realy typical and professional until she got the money.DO NOT make business with her.
Send me the data's of the dogs. I'll help get you the pedigree. I heard that in the last six months there wasn't any wolfdogs pedigreed.

I want your answer in e-mail so I can forward it to the Hungarian Kennel Club.

I wrote about the Hungarian pedigree here in the forums, take a look at it.

Varga István
Neckartal Kennel
Hungary
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Old 10-10-2012, 20:32   #15
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In Spain there are also dogs from Crying Wolf are DM/DM
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Old 23-11-2012, 00:44   #16
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I've testes my female in december 2010 and the stud we used for her that time was tested before, so I knew that he is clear. I'm pretty sure, that testing in Laboklin for DM was available in 2010. How old is that female exactly?
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Old 27-12-2012, 13:09   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rona View Post
I'm not a fan of Crying Wolf kennel, but how can you blame the breeder if the test for DM had not been available before 2010 , the first, single dogs were tested in late 2010 and the massive testing began in 2011 when Daniela's project was introduced?

I understand the disappointment, but it's not a reason to be unfair!
Our GSD was tested in 2009 by OFI. The breeder also knew DM was in her lines - the owners of Forrest Crying wolf became advocates for DM after Forrest fell ill - we also noted that Pollux (Pongo) was a carrier (N/dm or N/a).

Here is a video of Forrest, just a warning, it is very sad to watch it.

http://canine-dm.com/index.php?optio...d=54&Itemid=60
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Old 27-12-2012, 13:31   #18
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It´s not just in Crying Wolf´s lines... It´s in ALL lines...

But there is a DNA test for DM, so it is easy to breed away from it, even whit out narrowing the gene pool...

Test info >>> http://www.wolfdog-healthinfo.org/dm-4.html

Very best regards / Mikael
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Old 28-12-2012, 17:32   #19
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here in holland we had to wait until the test was validated for the CSW before we could sent blood to the lab. I did test my dog as one of the first in februari 2010 before that date it was not possible to test a CSW in Holland.
I agree with some of the earlier commentes, don't blame breeders for having bred DM dogs in the past, BUT blame breeders who don't test their breeding stock now before they breed! And blame new owners who still takes dogs from untested parents.
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Old 29-12-2012, 01:36   #20
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Just look at the vast majority (and I'm talking 95% +) of German shepherd breeders who just ignore it - "I don't test because it's not in my lines" (then how do you know?) or "It's not a big issue" (really? 75% of the dogs are at least carriers isn't a big issue?).

We posted Kiri's results on our website and breeders actually had the nerve to ask (well, tell / order) us to take it down. Um, no.
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