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Breed standard & bonitations How typical CzW should look like, measurements and commentaries to the breed standard, information about bonitations and youth presentations....

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Old 19-03-2013, 20:05   #1
z Peronówki
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Default Typical Czechoslovakian wolfdog by Ing. Karel Hartl

Sketch by Ing Karel Hartl (founder of Czechoslovakian wolfdogs). It shows perfectly how a typical Wolfdog should be built... It is easy to see how different from it are numerous show winners - it is hard to call most of them typical Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs... It is sad that many dogs built exactly like the standard shows are put on the end positions because of "too short bodies", "too long legs" or "too steep angulation" (simply for all this what is typical for our breed) ....

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Old 19-03-2013, 23:10   #2
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a básník tím chtěl říct co? že všichni dělají vše špatně? proč?
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Old 19-03-2013, 23:16   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alissea View Post
a básník tím chtěl říct co? že všichni dělají vše špatně? proč?
??? Could you write it in English?
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Old 20-03-2013, 08:10   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alissea View Post
a básník tím chtěl říct co? že všichni dělají vše špatně? proč?
All issues need to be addressed Hartl here his drawings and his authorial SIGNATURE
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Old 20-03-2013, 08:25   #5
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So I think I uderstood it right. I just could not belive that a breeder can write something like it...

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Originally Posted by Alissea View Post
a básník tím chtěl říct co? že všichni dělají vše špatně? proč?
The translation is:
"What the poet had in mind? That all do it wrong? why?"

As Daiva wrote it already - the "poet" is the founder of this breed. This drawing was made by HARTL - you should respect it.
It is not just a picture but a very good projection of everything what is written in the breed standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alissea View Post
že všichni dělají vše špatně? - That all do it wrong?

Who do you mean with ALL? Your friends? Czech breeders? Czech Club?

Most of MY friends try to keep the the breed standard -> they try to breed dogs similar to the one showed on the picture...

If your friends (or breeders you know) do it totally different way - it means they breed dogs which DO NOT resemble the animal on the picture and:
YES, they do everything wrong because they breed ATYPICAL Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs.


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Originally Posted by Alissea View Post
proč? - why?
You have the ask THEM why they are breeding not typical dogs. In my opinion it is because lack of basic knowledge of the breed standard and because they slander everything what Hartl was trying to teach the breeders...
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Old 22-03-2013, 09:13   #6
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Margo umíš česky, vy taky píšete u nás anglicky, já anglicky neumím
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Old 22-03-2013, 14:20   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alissea View Post
Margo umíš česky, vy taky píšete u nás anglicky, já anglicky neumím
this is english forum or we mas writte in lithuanian polish and czech and others language, please used translator?
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Old 26-03-2013, 20:19   #8
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fantastic! now, in the absence of kennel-blindness , it's pretty easy to use one's own dogs to measure against this pictorial standard and see what and where should be improved..
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Old 27-03-2013, 11:35   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfin View Post
this is english forum or we mas writte in lithuanian polish and czech and others language, please used translator?




You know what's really sad? as you can everything. The Czech forum normally write English. But that you too have used the compiler, it will not. Update your information and not cooperate with breeders who sent you the information and the only thing you're doing, how all gossiping about everywhere. Because only you are all doing well. No one else. Only your dogs are the best. Only you have the right to this server. Perhaps listen to the majority and stop to use it.
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Old 27-03-2013, 11:59   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alissea View Post
You know what's really sad? as you can everything. The Czech forum normally write English. But that you too have used the compiler, it will not. Update your information and not cooperate with breeders who sent you the information and the only thing you're doing, how all gossiping about everywhere. Because only you are all doing well. No one else. Only your dogs are the best. Only you have the right to this server. Perhaps listen to the majority and stop to use it.
oo very interesing - found a post when I say " the best dog are from Wolfin" I think not can found this.
p.s. foto post Margo not I, when why you say this, better speak with Hartl about breeding when you can make this I not and begin you and others work with his ideas
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Old 08-04-2013, 19:53   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alissea View Post
Update your information and not cooperate with breeders who sent you the information and the only thing you're doing, how all gossiping about everywhere.
I think you mistook Daiva with someone else. If you are looking for the biggest liars and goosip spreaders - get in touch with the new Czech breeding comittee. You will find them there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alissea View Post
Only your dogs are the best. Only you have the right to this server. Perhaps listen to the majority and stop to use it.
MAJORITY? I think you do not understand what is the GOAL of breeding of purebreed dogs. It is not to breed that same dogs as the majority because usualy there are tons of ignorants who breed dogs for money and who promote (only) their own dogs (of any reasons). In every breed "the majority" breeds average or poor quality dogs. So do not try to convince us to breed bad quality dogs only because other breeders do it....

The goal of breeding is to breed dogs which fulfill all this what is written in the breed standard. I have no idea why so many exactly Czech breeders and owners have such agressive reaction everytime I post words or pictures prepared by Hartl.....
Yes, I know there is a strong group of breeders in Czech Republic who will be happy if people would burn all the books written by Hartl so they would be able to promote their "Czech Shepherds" as the only perfect dogs. But we do not plan to make their aspirations to destroy this breed so easy...
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Old 10-04-2013, 10:44   #12
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Would Karel Hartl approve? ...I'm just curious :P hehe

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Old 15-04-2013, 03:10   #13
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I am not an expert at all!

So if anyone just compare their dog with the sketch of Ing Karel Hartl, they maybe can find an answer for their questions
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Old 15-04-2013, 03:29   #14
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Thank you, Mijke

That´s what I thought but couldn´t express it in a foreign language.

I´m sure Ivan knows
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Old 15-04-2013, 14:58   #15
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I remembered I had a photo of Vila that reminded me a lot of the sketch by Hartl, so I just thought I would post it. I'm no expert at all, I would even say that I haven't got a clue about exact proportions but if you guys think she's "off", I won't be a crybaby about it
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Old 15-04-2013, 19:38   #16
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I must say that Hartl is really a good designer, but the angles that are proposed in the sketch are nothing more than those reported in the breed standard.
I think it's impossible to have an uniform to the standard of 100%.
I agree that many judges all-round judge really bad, but I don't think that the race is having a catastrophic result.
The standard of the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog is clear and leaves very little to the imagination.
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Old 15-04-2013, 21:05   #17
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I think a pictorial illustration of the standard is a good tool even if all the measurements are either already in the text standard or referred to in bonitation cards.

There are only a few dogs, for example, which I met in real life that I can say have something approaching the shortness of the torso length given in the illustration. And almost all of the dogs I have seen (in real life, again not in photos) don't have as straight angulation both of the front and of the rear.

I haven't met or seen as many Vlcaks as many of the more experienced people here, but I do think that there are many, many Vlcaks that are very dog-like, without ratios approaching this model.. of course there is no dog which is perfect, all of them have some fault, it is a matter of relativity but simply I think it's a good reminder for breeders of the goals so that the trend is always towards dogs with a build like this illustration.
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