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Old 28-03-2012, 09:30   #41
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Originally Posted by yukidomari View Post
And there's valid reason for frustration...
Maybe, but as said, not a solution.

Hundreds of dogs, suddenly being marked as suspicious, without further research or investigation, owners being told to contact breeders, it is all insane.

Replace the dogs with humans and Adolf Hitler would have been proud of this action.

It is disgusting, no more no less.
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Old 28-03-2012, 09:32   #42
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Proofs, proofs! Where are the proofs?!....
Well, let me ask you the same question. Where are the proofs for the accusations for all these dogs being marked? All proofs individually, please.
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Old 28-03-2012, 12:12   #43
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I personally take offense to the comparison of an attempt by wolfdog.org to compel owners and breeders to demand DNA testing of some specimans of *a PURE BREED OF DOGS with very clear breedig boundaries* which come from lines of breeders tied to very suspicious looking and acting breedings....to the actions or thoughts of Adolph Hitler on humanity. I think wolfdog.org is making a point for people to see that the problem is potentially not limited to a handful of dogs...but can grow exponentially in just a few years.

For me, when someone lies, it also makes me question the whole integrity of that person - and in the case of a breeder, the integrity of the breeding program. I don't particularly like the anonymous nature of Admin, and have several friends upset with (-!-) beside their dog's names, who I believe are probably pure...but really, as a breeder and lover of the breed, the thing that unsettles me most is the complacency of breed clubs, breeders, owners to allow mixed breedings to go on....and quietly "sweep them under the rug". Complacency to quietly allow bad things to go on, and not become involved...the root of the problem being clearly suspicious dogs passed off as pure CSVs...is a dangerous mindset. Always, I think we should have an expectation of truth, of science in dog breeding...and not of blind faith.
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Old 28-03-2012, 12:58   #44
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Galamyoak,

I think you misread my reaction.

On topic,

I cannot believe there is any owner on this forum, that doesnot agree to the wish for a healthy breed of our beloved Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs, all according to the regulations in different countries. I also wish to believe, that all of us here condemn the actions of breeders or others, who willingly and knowingly break the rules and regulations or who have mal intentions for our beloved breed.

Having said that, this action we are discussing here, is uncalled for and doesnot solve anything.

First of all, the admin function here seems to be an anonymous one, as no one, including moderators, knows who exactly is the admin.

And people should in all cases take responsibility for their acts and come forward with their identity, when blaming others or even worse, mark others, without even being clear, what the marking exactly stands for.

But what frightens me the most, is the fact that there are true belivers, who think such actions, as from the admin's side is to be praised and owners, who have no idea what is going on, are being told to go their respective breeders and ask for clarification.

And even worse, some here seem to even enjoy themselves, when owners feel upset about uncalled actions and marking.

How can people take joy in putting up people against eachother, when the actual solution asked for is a worldwide group of people, owners and breeders, who share a passion for the same: the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog.


If you wish to solve this matter, work on a solution with those responsible for the problem, don't include those, who are not part of the problem and brand them as guilty for something, that has not even been clarified.

Exactly like Loco stated, no double standards please.
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Old 28-03-2012, 19:35   #45
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Maybe, but as said, not a solution.
Hundreds of dogs, suddenly being marked as suspicious,
Where is it written dogs are suspicious of anything?

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... it is all insane. Replace the dogs with humans and Adolf Hitler would have been proud of this action.

It is disgusting, no more no less.
It's disgusting and insane to make such comparison. It's you who are indecently arrogant to write such thing in a forum where there are people who lost their relatives in Nazi concentration camps!

Shame of you!!!

I kindly ask the moderator for a reaction!!!
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Old 28-03-2012, 19:42   #46
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If you wish to solve this matter, work on a solution with those responsible for the problem, don't include those, who are not part of the problem and brand them as guilty for something, that has not even been clarified.
As I understand it, 'those responsible for the problem' don't wish to cooperate. And owners of these kennels' dogs are not really 'part of the problem' but can be 'part of the solution'.. instead of seeing this mark as something terrible, maybe one can see it as an incentive to seek clarity with their breeders. I see nothing wrong with that. A breeder owes it to their puppy buyers anyway as it is.
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Old 28-03-2012, 20:05   #47
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Rona,

As far as there is a comparison, it is about the thought of generalizing individual cases to all genetic descendants and marking them, based on non proven accusations.

Work on solutions, not on creating stories, I would suggest to those, supporting this action.
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Old 28-03-2012, 20:41   #48
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Rona,

As far as there is a comparison, it is about the thought of generalizing individual cases to all genetic descendants and marking them, based on non proven accusations.
Still, IMO you should apologize for using it!
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Old 28-03-2012, 23:15   #49
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Rona, please admit that is is a bit arrogant and despothic to do this… for me it's clear he wanted to say only this

"Where is it written dogs are suspicious of anything? " ?!??!!

Database say that they are "not any more suitable for breeding"…even though they have all tests needed and much much more than a lot of "suitable for breeding" dogs without bonitance etc etc etc... more "suspicious" of that!
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Old 28-03-2012, 23:37   #50
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The question is how reliable this website is at the moment. Several dogs are marked with ? or ! without any form of an explanation.

It looks to me almost like a withcraft to several breeders, and without any eplanation. As it is a private website wouldn't it be easier to just stop this website as nobody can be trusted?

Maybe you can start by removing al the information from my dog that I did provide to you, all the medical and pictures please. Thank you for you help

greetings judith
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Old 29-03-2012, 08:28   #51
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Rona, please admit that is is a bit arrogant and despothic to do this…
I told you I didn't understand why somebody could get so excited about some silly signs. There are dogs dying of ill-treatment, pseudo breeders/ businessmen/ puppy millers destroying the work of generations of honest people and breed lovers and people stay indifferent, don't care, but a little -!- , the meaning of which has never been clearly explained, makes them levitate! Sorry, but to me this is absurd!

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for me it's clear he wanted to say only this
I don't know what he wanted to say, but I know what he said. Even if we have different views and discuss them strongly here - there is no need to use such language and such metaphors! There are limits to insensivity!
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Old 29-03-2012, 10:08   #52
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I think we all are waiting for an answer from Admin.
The point is'nt only the symbol but the fact that some dog aren't anymore "approved for breeding".

In the case of Glock Arian...you may dislike the dog, you may dislike the owner, you may dislike the breeder (I too) but he is for sure a real CSW, being from well known blood lines, he made exibitions, bonitace, hd, dna, working tests etc.

With him there are many other owners with the same problem ... not saying that wolfdog.org should be "democratic" (might be too difficult for people of Eastern Europe), but RULES are necessary and these rules should be well known by users and must be valid for everyone, to maintain credibility.
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Old 29-03-2012, 19:50   #53
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Dear Admin!

Please, delete all of our dogs from the database, for I don't want you to put shame on me anymore. You wrote that I breed CZW-Mix. Tomorrow, I'll demand a police investigation against you. I'll report it in the National Court, I'll demand the delete of wolfdog.org because of false datas, I'll request a compensation of €100.000.

Or you can just make a public apology to everyone whom you had given false datas from. If you have no evidence of a "data", I'll want it to be fixed.

Neckartal Kennel - Hungary
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Old 29-03-2012, 19:58   #54
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Ow, this one was creative!
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Old 29-03-2012, 20:10   #55
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Dear Nebulosa,

The people who know me know that my life is dedicated for the dogs. I understand that the mixes will have to go. But you cannot accuse anyone without evidence. Admin wrote "breeders of CZW-mixes". If you want to know the Neckartal Kennel's full name:

Von Neckartal 1977 - FCI reg.

But it's possible that you wasn't even born yet. Do you dare to give out the Admin's name? Because you know. If not, it will come to light sooner or later.
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Old 30-03-2012, 00:34   #56
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Originally Posted by yukidomari View Post
As I understand it, 'those responsible for the problem' don't wish to cooperate. And owners of these kennels' dogs are not really 'part of the problem' but can be 'part of the solution'.. instead of seeing this mark as something terrible, maybe one can see it as an incentive to seek clarity with their breeders. I see nothing wrong with that. A breeder owes it to their puppy buyers anyway as it is.
So let's say I hold something against you and I start spreading the news. All rumours, no facts or substance.

Then I tell people it's in your genes.

Would you go to your family and seek for clarity?
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Old 30-03-2012, 00:39   #57
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Originally Posted by jmvdwiel View Post
The question is how reliable this website is at the moment. Several dogs are marked with ? or ! without any form of an explanation.

It looks to me almost like a withcraft to several breeders, and without any eplanation. As it is a private website wouldn't it be easier to just stop this website as nobody can be trusted?

Maybe you can start by removing al the information from my dog that I did provide to you, all the medical and pictures please. Thank you for you help

greetings judith
Wholeheartedly agree with you.

A witchhunt, based on non proven accusations.

If we sentence people, based on accusations, it would be a very sad world.
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Old 30-03-2012, 01:52   #58
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So let's say I hold something against you and I start spreading the news. All rumours, no facts or substance.

Then I tell people it's in your genes.

Would you go to your family and seek for clarity?
No facts or substance? So you mean to say for example that puppies of strange colors are not factually atypical to the breed? That dogs related to the parents of these puppies aren't also suspicious?

Sorry, I don't know Admin to tell me that; if I had a dog for example related to anything like this, yes I would seek clarification from the breeder as common sense.

Anyway, there haven't been any 'accusations'.. we don't know what it all means yet..
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Old 30-03-2012, 12:37   #59
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No facts or substance? So you mean to say for example that puppies of strange colors are not factually atypical to the breed? That dogs related to the parents of these puppies aren't also suspicious
You just found the right word: suspicious.

Are we to mark dogs, when things get suspicious?

Or should we do further investigation, to come to facts instead?

Imagine, you get sentenced, based on suspicious behaviour.

Again, I want to be clear, I am a hundred percent against mixed breeding, under the flag of the Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, in fact it is the sole reason for me to join the Dutch breeding association here in The Netherlands as a board member.

But my aim is not to act on emotion and suspicion, but to get facts on the table.

After all, if we want a pure and healthy breed, it is all about facts, no more, no less.
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Old 30-03-2012, 16:26   #60
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You just found the right word: suspicious.

Are we to mark dogs, when things get suspicious?

Or should we do further investigation, to come to facts instead?
Actually, I really understand you and agree on some things. But this is the fact - it shouldn't have to be Wolfdog.org and breeders who use Wolfdog.org to investigate anything. It is each country's Kennel Club which has the responsibility to do that, but it doesn't seem that is forthcoming.

What else can be done except to write and share on one's personal site, therefore, the suspicions they have? Otherwise, it could be that suspicious (yes, suspicious!) dogs be used over and over and spread wider in the gene pool then it already is...

It's not the best way because the best way would be that the Kennel Club of each country in which suspicious dogs reside would take action to clarify it themselves...... I wish it too. I believe such complaints have already been lodged with the KC's to no avail...
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