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Upbringing & character How to care for a puppy, how to socialize it, the most common problems with CzW, how to solve them.... |
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07-09-2004, 22:00 | #1 |
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Wolfdogs in West Europe-shy, bad socialised & unpredicta
Hello everybody,
i can´t help but feel that i could have a word or two to say to this newly opened theme. First to those who do not know me, something about me. I ´ve been living with wolfdogs for more than severn years, been training with them and later I started to breed them, too. I´ve been to several dog shows with my Cira, we passed two obedience tests (ZOP, ZZO) and we trained regularly at least twice a week at different dog training clubs. I´ve been going to bonitations and youth presentation, also all my puppy owners (though from different countries) came to Czech republic to present the dogs at youth presentation. So possibly i can say I know a little bit about the breed and how the dogs look like in Czech republic. I moved to Belgium in April 2004 and I was wondering about wolfdogs here. But what I saw didn´t please me much. 90% of CSW´s i´ve met here were shy dogs, which their owners kept constantly on leash or better closed in a cage. Most of them also were not looking so great according to the standard, the biggest problems of wolfdogs in Belgium are big ears, dark eyes, long tails and i could continue. Also the dogs here are very slender with almost no muscles (how they could have them, walking only on the leash or being closed in a cage). Hard to recognise males from females, there is completely no difference in the shape of head or look of the dog.. Also, most of the dogs are quite small. The worst problem of CSW´s here in Belgium though is the character. Wolfdogs here are shy, badly socialised and unpredictable. They usually have no training and thus their owners are scared to let them off leash. I think there is a lot work at the Belgian breeders (or Dutch) to improve these problems. But again, i´ve heard horrible rumours among owners here, about how to deal with CSW´s. I´ve heard such crap like for example: - CSW´s cannot be trained, it is impossible.. - CSW´s are shy, it is normal, it´s the wolf in them.. - if CSW is not shy, it cannot be CSW, because all CSW´s are shy.. The most crazy thing is, that most wolfdog owners here do not know about each other, they get no advices from their breeders and usually no help, too. This way, not having suitable informations, they do not know what to do with their wolfdog, how to train it and socialise it, and another shy and problematic wolfdog is here. I can say that i strongly believe, that most of Belgian wolfdogs would not pass the Czech or Slovak bonitation. Maybe they would not fail in the size or look, but i say they would not pass the character test. (Also i cannot imagine how the wolfdogs would be measured, when i tried to take pictures at the meeting in Schoten, most of the wolfdogs were not able to stay at one place for few seconds). I guess that most of breeders or owners here in Belgium or Holland won´t like me for this, but truth is always not pleasant to hear. However, it doesn´t have to be so bad with the wolfdogs here in Belgium forewer. There is many things to do about it, and I can suggest some. First, the breeders must keep in touch with their puppy owners, that´s a basic. They must be able to advice, if their puppy owner has a problem. Also the breeders should be able to recommend the new puppy owner a good training place or to explain him at least a little bit about the socialisation of the dog. It is a must. Who is serious breeder, does this. The wolfdog owners here in Belgium should also unite and share their experiences, advices and thoughts. It is the best way to find solutions for problems and help each other. We have wolfdogs because we love them and what we want are happy and educated wolfdogs, with which we can go on walk or trip without being scared all the time, what the dog can do. Meeting in Schoten was a start, as Patrick said. I agree, though i expected more activities at the meeting, such as collective obedience training, agility or some little competition. Instead of that, after a walk (on the leash only) the only program was to sit and talk .. But hey, it is a start and I am sure next time it will be better. But one meeting per year is nothing, especially when the wolfdogs need to do something! I am opened to any discussions on this theme. If anyone in Belgium wants to meet me and discuss about wolfdog socialising, training, behaviour or other things, I am always ready to help. I am used from Czech republic that we people with wolfdogs were meeting often for walks, trips, competitons and other fun things and i miss it here. So I will be only pleased to see some wolfdogs or talk about them. Mirka |
07-09-2004, 23:18 | #2 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Warnsveld
Posts: 2,033
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But in Holland and Belgium are not so much CsW's as in Czech rep. and the owners do not often live in the same area. And also most dogowners in these country's are not used to weekly activity's together (exept once a week a training group, and not every dog owner is even doing this) But because I want to do activity's with my CsW's I did find other solutions: I walk with my CsW's with husky owners, obedience training with several other breeds, swimming training with some newfoundlander owners, tracking with a leonberger group, biking with some labrador owners )) OK, these are not wolfdogs , but we have a lot of fun together When you can't find wolfdog owners Mirka, I realy hope you can find some other dogowners who like to do things together with you and Cira! See you soon (and then we kan at least walk with a few CsW's! greetings, Mijke
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Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!! |
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08-09-2004, 13:57 | #3 | |
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Hi Mijke, my friend
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11-09-2004, 23:00 | #4 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kontich, near Antwerp
Posts: 460
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Hello from Belgium,
I introduce myself, specially for Mirka. Since my 12th, so 26 years, I have dogs. I had Irish setters,bouvier des flandres, german sheppard and since 2,5 year a csw Branca. I had many litters, and last year the first with csw, but without succes. the reason that officially on this site, we are the second breeder in Belgium. As a good belgian I must reply at your article, Mira. Here in Belgium we have very good dog trainers,we have many worldchampions like mondioring,veldwerk,agility,obedience...... So,don't laugh with us. There is only one breeder in Belgium and he can't defend himself because he hasnot internet. He is a very very good man. He has good contacts with Hartl. You wrote that the breedermust follow up the puppies. So, all the original csw in Belgium and Netherland come from the origine countries. Why did'nt those breeders do it? Who's fault is it than? In our countries a csw is attractive because he looks to a wolf. When tomorrow a csw must be obedient like a german sheppard, than by a german sheppard! You wrote that a csw must can stay still to take a picture. Well, that is not the most important thing for a csw. 2 or 3 times a week I course on bycicle 10 km with Branca. Do you? Every day in the morning my csw walk with me and my daughter to school . (perfect socialising) Do you? Our csw are playing with my both daughters (1.5 and 4.5). Do you? Our csw stays offently in the restaurant of my wife. Do you? I take her with to bar and public market. Do you? I went to 3 different dog schools to train on different locations. In the videoclip Branca was hold on for 10 minutes by a stranger before she had to run 3 à 400 meters to return to me. She did it. Branca cames always back in the woods! I had 2 weeks before the video making to train Branca with a camera. I had an old very big one. So she was not shy from the camera. She only didn't had confidance with camera 3 meters high and 4 man behind. Take 100 german sheppards in the same situaton! You will see that many of those dogs don't like it. Since 7 years I 'm a professionel dog-guardian. Every week for 30 hours I work with my 2 "old" german sheppard (long hair) and 2 times a week I take my csw Branca with me. She is sitting near to me, looking at the entree of the shop, all the cars passing. People pass her within ONE meter. She doesn't reacte. She is not shy! Branca see and hair every moving. She already defend me twice! 2 times a person wanted to attack me. The cars, children, people .... make a lot of noises, she don't move! Don't tell belgian csw are shy. Our people don't know yet exactly what you can do with a csw. Agility,coursing,tracking...... That is the problem. The only way is to encourage them and explain it. The only thing YOU do is destructive for the "90%". That's wrong. You must be constructive with thoseother 10% and slowly the rest will follow. I think you like giving critics, like the boy of 13 years old with his saarloos. You forget the most important thing of a dog: a dog is our friend, whatever the defaults may be! At the meeting in Schotenin June you came to congratulate me. Now after 3 months you wrote that we had to do more! I don't like that kind of people. Say it in my face please! You also wrote that there is nothing to do for csw. But when I asked you in June to come more training in the club, you told me that the distance was to far. Is 30 km to far for a csw-lover? This is the second time you attacked me. Don't do it again. Instead of critisise you'd better do something possitive. You wrote that the belgian csw have to big ears. In all those pedigrees there is an ariel lobos,exa vopa,zepper... All dogs from YOUR country. You wrote that belgian csw are to thin and have no muscles. Well,... I prefere that than a fat one with hollow back. Normally this year Branca will have Edy krivotklasky atos as male for a litter. It's a half brother of your dog! In july a puppie csw came to us: Heron. His Dutch parents have a P1 an P5. You can not be critical on this, I suppose. To end possitive: I've heard that Mijke wants to organise a meeting in Belgium also! Very good! In june 2005 the second meeting will be organised in Schoten. Normally next week you'll find more details on this site. And Mirka, ther will be more organised! Greatings Patrick |
12-09-2004, 21:18 | #5 | |||||||||||||||||||||
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Dear Patrick,
i do not know that i´d attack you in any way. Please calm down. And especially please note, i was not speaking here about Branca the Movie star, but about all wolfdogs in Belgium or Holland, that i´ve seen since i am here. Now a bit to what you said. Quote:
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Personally I think, if German shepherd can´t stand a situation of being filmed on camera, then it is not worth to be called German shepherd. Quote:
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Happy howls, Mirka |
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12-09-2004, 21:49 | #6 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kontich, near Antwerp
Posts: 460
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Hello again from Belgium,
Mirka, Please put your name on the Belgian breeders list. I'm a good friend of the other breeder. That's why I had to reacte. He and me have some different opinions about the csw, but anyway the csw is our friend. If you think a csw most be obedient like a german sheppard, than think it. I'll will explain you more when we will meet eachother on a show.... Greatings Patrick |
13-09-2004, 07:27 | #7 | |||||||||
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Hi,
I read the loooong comment from Patric and I must put some my opinions and comments. Quote:
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Breeder and owner must be in regulary contact. Its a basic principle of breeding (in the right sense of this word). Quote:
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Patrik, dont fight with Mirka and try to slowly changing the situation of CsW in Belgium together with her. Quote:
I cross the fingers for you |
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13-09-2004, 13:38 | #8 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Kontich, near Antwerp
Posts: 460
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Hello from Belgium,
I forgot to tell something. With my german sheppard I did 8 years competion obedience of St Hubertus in the highest class. So I know what obedience is. So, Pavel and Mirka, I'll remember all your critics and be shure that I'm working on it. Remember, I organised the first meeting in Belgium. Also the second one in June with much more things to do. The end Patrick |
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