HD, ED

[z Peronówki]

The successfull races have tested about 35% of population and its
very less for some true statistic. And dont forget, that lot of owners
make first a unoficially HD test and if it looks bad, then dont testing
oficially. So that real % is lower.
Pavel

HD is hereditary. But as you wrote we don't know how strong (scientists talk
about 25-55%) and which genes support it.

I think you've mention a very important thing which is still a problem:
breeder's honesty. It's impossible to eliminate genetic diseases without
knowing the affected dogs. For example: if information is missing and you
will choose a HD free stud dog you will never know if the dog had "luck" (he
is the only one in whole litter which is HD free and the rest of the
sibilings have HD) or maybe it's really relatively healthy dog (his
sibilings, parents and/or offsprings are also HD free). Maybe that's exactly
the reason why it's so hard to fight with displasia...

Greetings,
Margo

[Pavel]

Hi,
Margo knows very good which thema can provoke me to long discussion )

HD is hereditary. But as you wrote we don't know how strong (scientists talk
about 25-55%) and which genes support it.

I stay on my position. And you are in this sentence in gap. Because you say, that
HD is hereditary, but in next one you state, that nobody know which genes do it.
If we dont have which and how many genes support HD, then we cant say if is
hereditary or not. And as I wrote, the statistics are absolutelly not conclusive.

For example: if information is missing and you will choose a HD free stud dog
you will never know if the dog had "luck" (he is the only one in whole litter
which is HD free and the rest of the sibilings have HD) or maybe it's really
relatively healthy dog (his sibilings, parents and/or offsprings are also HD
free). Maybe that's exactly the reason why it's so hard to fight with
displasia...

If is really HD hereditary (I say "IF"), then all CsW have a gens for it, because
all comming from same lines (we have more lines, but all just were in history
minimaly one time crossing between). And with selecting on HD we dont reach any
good result yet. See the GSD. They watching HD just over 30 years (and more) and
make a selection. But the situation is not better. E.g. in Czech is just so
tragically situation by GSD, that from last year is possibly to using for breed
dogs with HD stage "D" !!! Its the result of long time selection. Its the reason,
why am very sceptical to HD. Before nobody hear about HD and the dogs (and wolves
as well ) ) survived thousand years.

Have a nice day

Pavel

[Huan]

Hello,

I stay on my position. And you are in this sentence in gap. Because you
say, that HD is hereditary, but in next one you state, that nobody know which genes do it. If we dont have which and how many genes support HD, then we cant say if is hereditary or not. And as I wrote, the statistics are absolutelly not conclusive.

Nothing is 100% sure but the statistics if are based on the sufficient
amount of animals can be considered trustful. Most of the researches were
based on the OFA database (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals). This
foundation collected X-ray results of over 720 000 US dogs. Such huge
research base made it possible to the scientists to determine without doubt
that HD is a hereditary disease. But even this huge database was helpless
for determining which and how many genes are responsible for the disease and
that's because (as Ina already wrote in the German mailing list) there are
much more factors that have influence on the level of the HD of individual
dogs (like for example feeding). There is no question about if HD is or is
not hereditary. There is only a question how much. None of the recent
researches challenged the heredity of HD. All of them say it is. They just
vary between 20% and over 50%. None of them say it could be 0%.

If is really HD hereditary (I say "IF"), then all CsW have a gens for it,
because all comming from same lines (we have more lines, but all just were in history minimaly one time crossing between).

Not exactly. Yes, they all come from the same lines but it does not mean
that all have the same genes. Every dog receives a random pool of genes from
his parents. Let say hypothetical that there is one gen responsible for the
HD - it may happen that the dog did not receive this HD gene from his
parents. But his sibling may be out of luck and get this gen from the
parents. In such case we have to dogs which are siblings but one of them may
pass HD to his offsprings and the other one will not. But as I say it's
hypothetical because there may be more than one gen responsible for HD and
this case would be much more complicated.

And with selecting on HD we dont reach any good result yet. See the GSD. They watching HD just over 30 years (and more) and make a selection. But the situation is not better. E.g. in Czech is just so tragically situation by GSD, that from last year is possibly to using for breed dogs with HD stage "D" !!! Its the result of long time selection. Its the reason, why am very sceptical to HD. Before nobody hear about HD and the dogs (and wolves as well ) ) survived thousand years.

If you can't do something perfect you can always try to make it as good as
you can. I don't think that having none restrictions would help GSD. Maybe
without the restrictions the present situation would be even worser and they
would allow the dogs with "E" )

Just my two cents )))

Greetings,
Przemek