Finding CzW Breeders in PORTUGAL or SPAIN

[Margo]

Originally Posted by Odisseu

Hello, I live in Portugal and I would like to know where I can find Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs breeders in PORTUGAL or in SPAIN. If anybody knows please answer me writing de Kennel name and, If possible, the telephone number because I would like to buy one for myself.

[Nebulosa]

Have one CzW kennel in Portugal, the afix is "Da Nobreza Branca" if not me deceif...
and If not me deceif exist 2 breeders of CzW in Spain, but i not know her afix (name of the kennel).

[Rafacs]

Breeders in Spain ?

Hi every body.
I'm afraid there isn't any breeder in Spain.
There was one that said he was placed in South Spain I was looking for him when I wanted to buy the two CzW I've got now. It was impossible to find it.
Till few days ago, there were just 5 CzW in Spain (that was written in this database) and I know all the owner (I've seen today we are 6 now ) and I can tell you quite sure no one of us is a breeder (at least till now)

Nevertheless if any body knows the name of that breeder, please write it in this topic

Rafa

[Dharkwolf]

I don't know of any breeders in Spain either, however if they need someone who can speak spanish (or even portuñol!) they can contact me.

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Rafa

Breeders in Spain ?

Hi every body.
I'm afraid there isn't any breeder in Spain.
There was one that said he was placed in South Spain I was looking for him when I wanted to buy the two CzW I've got now. It was impossible to find it.
Till few days ago, there were just 5 CzW in Spain (that was written in this database) and I know all the owner (I've seen today we are 6 now ) and I can tell you quite sure no one of us is a breeder (at least till now)

Nevertheless if any body knows the name of that breeder, please write it in this topic

Rafa

What I know from there, I know for the InterNet (mi contry is 1 ocean of distance ), I know that has 1 breeder of CzW and one of Saarloos in Spain, but only have certainty of the Portuguese breeder because already I spoke with he for email.
I go to leave more given of it, and go to see if find the data of the Spain breeders who I found (in the truth, it looked for for breeders in Mexico but realy not exist, not exist any breeder in america, only one in canada, and he no have X-rays of the dogs )

About the portuguese breeder:
da Nobreza Branca (António Luis Azevedo)
Address: Rua de Thom, 169 R/C Dto Traseiras, 4400-599 Vila Nova de Gaia,
Phone: +351 918 860661, 1934425537

I take this information in this site (wolfdog.org).


it would be better to send an email for the Espain Kennel Club asking if they exist breeders of this breed in the country.

[hector]

Hi! I'm a Spanish boy from Barcelona. I would like to buy a puppy in France or in Italy but I don't know where is a good place. Please, can you tell me where can I find this? If possible, I would like to know if the breed make the x-rays to know if he has rtg.
Thank you very much
Hector

[Margo]

Originally Posted by Hector

I would like to buy a puppy in France or in Italy but I don't know where is a good place.

Whole list with all interesting litters you can find here:
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/litters/
If you want to buy a puppy with good character take a look only on breeders which have not so many dogs - where the puppies are growing up at home OR where you can be sure that the breeders spends very much time with them and care for right socialization. Don't buy puppies from puppy factories and you will be save from many problems with your dog in the future....

Originally Posted by Hector

I would like to know if the breed make the x-rays to know if he has rtg.

The x-rays are required in origin countries and some other but to be honest it is very dangerous to buy a puppy which parents were not x-rayed because hip dysplasy is as serious illness and pretty common also by CzW (CzW is much healtier breed that for example German Shepherd dog and co. but still there are lines where HD is pretty common). So if you take a look on the list with "Planned litters" check if the parents are HD-checked...

[Wolfsirius]

Originally Posted by Margo

If you want to buy a puppy with good character take a look only on breeders which have not so many dogs

This is thing YOU CAN ONLY KNOW , if you ask from breeder, or visit breeder. At wolfdog.org is not correct info about breeders amount of dogs. There can be less, or more dogs than you saw at database. Ex. some of "owned" dogs by breeder has died, or something else.

It could be nice, if someday we get some mark on the dogs which does not exist anymore (died)

Greetings; Suski

[Margo]

Originally Posted by WolfSirius / Suski

This is thing YOU CAN ONLY KNOW , if you ask from breeder, or visit breeder. At wolfdog.org is not correct info about breeders amount of dogs.

OOOOPS, you right. Expecially by breeders which bred already for 20 years there can be huge number of dogs on the list. So do not take the look on this list but ask.....
We changed the database and soon we will be able to separate the dogs which still live by the breeder from dogs which already passed away.... And it will make the list clear....finally...

[Rafacs]

Hello Hector

Going back to the topic , I'm also from Spain, I think we are 5 owners close to you, but with no much experience about Wolfdogs.

There is another topic about breeders in Spain. I suppose you already know there isn't. My dogs come from Italy, but it doesn't mean anything, it is, there're good breeders in several countries.

As Margo says it's important the HD test.
But about the character, there're more possibilities to a breeder with a few dogs to socialize a puppy than another with a lot of them, but sometimes the second one is better person than the first and take more care about it. It is just a question of possibilities and a little bit of luck. Remember that even if the puppy is well socialize, its character is individual and you only can change it a little.

Now, wherever you buy it, remember that you can bring it to Spain after the dog is 3 months old, no before, rules are rules.
What does it means? Think about a breeder that have a litter, maybe 7 puppies. He starts to sell them to people from his own country, a possible buyer can see , touch, play with,....the puppies, but not you. You are going to buy a puppy 3 months old, and it will not the best of the litter.
Try to avoid it asking for pictures of the puppies, time of born, weigh,.. and chose one as soon as you can.
Don't send the money. Pay the puppy after taking it on your hand. If there is something estrange, drive back. You are going to pay for a real wolfdog without problems!

If you decide on buying it in a country near Spain, the puppy will not be cheap, but the travel is an advantage, shorter for you and your puppy.
The total amount will be more or less the same if you buy it in France or in Czech (or wherever you want), it is your decision.

Think also about the convenience of a male or female


We really have got a good help on this database, you can see the parents of the puppy, shows, HD, bonitation,... Use it to yours own advantage and
DON'T BE IN A HURRY, remember that you chose a future member of your family.

Regards
Rafa

Please, read the articles on the FAQ folder:
What mistakes you should be aware during buying a puppy?
Is it better to provide a dog or a bitch?
What is the best place to buy a puppy from?

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Rafa

But about the character, there're more possibilities to a breeder with a few dogs to socialize a puppy than another with a lot of them, but sometimes the second one is better person than the first and take more care about it.

Sure - sometimes "breeders" which have even only one puppy have no idea how to care for the puppies so a dog from their kennel will be worser that dog from a kennel with few dogs...

Originally Posted by Rafa

Remember that even if the puppy is well socialize, its character is individual and you only can change it a little.

The future owner have huge influence - take a look on the article written by Dharkwolf (http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/articles/1357.html) - there is for example huge difference between dogs from Czech kennels which live in CZ and "West Europe". In the most cases the dogs living in CZ have stable character and their brothers and sisters living in other countries are shy. Most CzW owners in CZ visit training ground already with young puppies. They train to pass the bonitation. Many people in West Europe think they have Wolves - and they do not socialize the dogs what causes they are very shy...

So the owner has a lot to say about the future character of the dog. Even it he get great dog he cas still many things wrong....

Sure, you right and every dog has its individual character and in every litter you can see puppies which are more or less self-confident. But a good breeder and good mother have HUGE influence on the future character of the puppy. And it is very important expecially by Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. I read great interview with Christian Starosciak - dog trainer working with very agressive dogs in the animal shelter near Paris. And his words are very much true:
"The most cases where the dog bite a men are not caused that the dog was abused by the owner or wrong treated. (..) For about 90% of such cases is responsible the mother or the breeder of the puppy."
It is really easy - the puppies learn from their mother. If she will behave shy/agressive also they will learn such behavior. And there are many proofs for it. But even more important is the breeder - if the puppy is kept in kennel without proper socialization you can be already SURE that the puppy will be shy (or will have much worser character in the future than puppies from good kennels). Sure the owner can work with such dog and make it better but still...

What is the difference? We had the possibility to compare two puppies - one from good kennel, second was a puppy kept without socialization. The first was already from beginning brave and open towards people, played a lot, was not scared. Second puppy was for ONE week sitting unter the bed, too much affraid to leave the room.... Very much affraid of the new owners... and because of it bahaving agressive...

Another example - I saw the puppies from Mirkas kennel (born at home, having a lot contact with people) and even after some of them were sold to the "West Europe" the dogs are still normal... But I also know a dog which one breeder from Czech Republic buyed abroad to import "new blood" - the woman knows CzW very well, is experienced breeder and also a dog trainer but she was not ABLE to "repair" the character of this puppy (the dog was buyed in a kennel where CzW live in bigger pack like real wolves) - the missing socialization destoyed the character of the puppy simply too much...

Originally Posted by Rafa

You are going to buy a puppy 3 months old, and it will not the best of the litter.

Why not? Sorry but it is surprising for me. It means "first buyer get better dog"? Someone who pays earlier gets the chance too choose first? Only money counts?
Sorry, but I'm used the the system of reservations - better owner (more interested in this breed) gets better chances. Or "first reservation, first choice". Sorry but I can't imagine to sell puppy with the worstes character in the litter to someone how writes that he is interested in training; and to sell less promising puppy to a person interested in showing the dog... only because the person will pick up the puppy as last one...
I buyed three dogs in Czech Republic and everytime I had the chance to choose. For example with Bolton I had the first choice - I was looking for huge puppy with stable character. The breeder helped me to choose the right puppy for me and it was not important if I will fast enough to be first person which picked up the puppy - Bolton was simply WAITING for me... And with the females was the same - the money were not the most important thing and I get what I expected. And I heard already about people which picked up the puppy much later but choosed as first - there are more people on this forum which had such chance...
Sure for an unknow person it can be hard because it is always a little bit risky for the breeder to keep the puppy so long but it is really no problem to choose the best puppy in the liter and pick up it later... Just find honest breeder...

Originally Posted by Rafa

Try to avoid it asking for pictures of the puppies, time of born, weigh,.. and chose one as soon as you can.

It depends what you want to do with your puppy - if it shoule be just a family mamber then only character is important. If you want to have show quality dog the detailed pictures will be very important - with 5 weeks you will be already able to say something about the future look of the puppy. You can say a lot about the angulation, about the colour of the eyes, lenght of the ears and much more. You will be able to see the mask. Good breeder which spend a lot time with the puppy will be able to tell you more about the character of each puppy - it is very important for the future because beginners should NEVER buy the "alpha" puppy because it means always (more) problems for them...
Nothing is sure but you will be able to choose better puppy from the litter and in many cases it is already possible to see if a puppy have no chance to be "Champion" in the future... And also to choose the best character...

Originally Posted by Rafa

The total amount will be more or less the same if you buy it in France or in Czech (or wherever you want), it is your decision.

That's right - the puppies in the East Europe seem to be cheaper but if we count everything it comes out the end price will be the same. So the most important thing will be the character of the parents (passed exams), their quality, the HD-results and the pedigree (if it should be puppy for breeding).

Originally Posted by Rafa

DON'T BE IN A HURRY, remember that you chose a future member of your family.

Yeah..that's true.... Sometimes it is companion for more that 10 years so think twice before you buy a CzW...

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by Margo

Another example - I saw the puppies from Mirkas kennel (born at home, having a lot contact with people) and even after some of them were sold to the "West Europe" the dogs are still normal...

I´d just like to mention, that the pups did not stay "normal" just by luck.
All of the "western" owners payed the attention to socialise well, train and educate the pups. Despite the fact, that each puppy is located in different country (France, Italy, Germany, Switzerland) and the ways of raising and training can differ, all the pups grew up into nice and social dogs.

Arok is being trained as a rescue dog. Arryn already passed some obedience tests. Art is training defence and obedience. Arktik can walk off leash in the middle of the city without any problems.

If these owners would not pay attention to their dogs and let them grow up in the garden, like many others "in the West" do, then they could have possibly end up being shy and unpredictable, despite the fact of having good life start. But then, what a breeder I would be to sell my pup to such people?

I say, the character of the puppy lies half in the breeder and half in the owner. Both have to pay a lot of attention and care and both are responsible for what grew up from that once nice and cuddly pup.

[Rafacs]

I've read three times my last reply looking for the place where I wrote "Only money counts" and I was right, I didn't say this.


We shouldn't tell Hector what a specific breeder does but what he can find in general.
There is another topic: What I look for a breeder by Raelee. It is easier to tell Hector: find a breeder like that and your problem will be solved.
But it is not an easy task.

You say first reservation=first choice, well, it's a good way, but it isn't the only one. You can also find the first pay=first choice. If Hector finds a breeder as the second, he will not choose the first –unless he is in luck-

About “the best puppy”. A puppy has this title at a first sight, just when you select it. And if you don’t choose the first you will not opt for the best and I repeat that I’m speaking in general. And let me tell again that to avoid it, you have to choose the puppy as soon as you can.

When I bought mine, I didn’t want 2 dogs for expos, nor breeding, nor obedience. And I already have been in two expos, and I hope to go to a lot of them. And I will sell a litter or two, or… And they are not been trained in obedience, but I would like. Did I look for a dog with a lot of qualities? I promise you NO. In spite of this, they are de BEST at least for me and my family, and somebody else .
Lucky guy!!!

Best Regards
Rafa

[Claude.Bordet]

Hello
I am a breeder of France, sum us not many breeders, on the site all the persons inscritent in breeders not of certificates of capacity in France a breeder amateur or professional have to have a certificate of capacité.sur the list breeders in France it(he) owe has there it see 2 or 3 no more the rest is now the law of the swindlers .pour to have a puppy of a country Europe not fafa is not 3 months but 8 weeks, for the 1ier choice often the customers does not take the best chiot.un puppy have to be born in the house not in kennel for its balance. Friendship
Claude

[trotamon]

Hi

I'm living in Spain too and I'm interested in a wolfdog puppy,
but I can't find a price, seems that this matter maybe is unpolite to write about.
Could anyone give me an idea ???

Many thanks and Happy New Year.

trotamon

[Hanka]

Find puppy from parents with HIP dysplasia result and with bonitation (test of characters). Much "breeders" have parents without it. It is not good breeding. Find in country of origin, if you want good wolfdog

[of_Mercedes_Dream]

Hello from Belgium,
I answer
1/as breeder: when every csw in the west is bad, why did I passed the bonitation with 2 dogs by driving 1000km? Why driving 800km for passing the VZ40km? Why did I give up my work for all my puppies? I was absolutely NOT happy that Akela has 10 puppies in stead of 5 or 6.
2/as president of the new Belgian club "www.cswbelgium.be":
we have next breeding regulations (born after 01/01/07)and tell me what we can do more:
having age of 2 years, pedigree fci, minimum 2 x very good on a dogshow, having a workingjudgement fci in obedience or agility or canicross or endurance or IPO or...., having a bonitation with good results, having x rays HD and not worse than C1.

I think we in Belgium take a good start.
It's not official yet, but we will organise in 2007 a bonitation.

Greatings and happy new year
Patrick Cools
"csw belgium"

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by of_Mercedes_Dream

Hello from Belgium,
I answer
1/as breeder: when every csw in the west is bad, why did I passed the bonitation with 2 dogs by driving 1000km? Why driving 800km for passing the VZ40km? Why did I give up my work for all my puppies? I was absolutely NOT happy that Akela has 10 puppies in stead of 5 or 6.
2/as president of the new Belgian club "www.cswbelgium.be":
we have next breeding regulations (born after 01/01/07)and tell me what we can do more:
having age of 2 years, pedigree fci, minimum 2 x very good on a dogshow, having a workingjudgement fci in obedience or agility or canicross or endurance or IPO or...., having a bonitation with good results, having x rays HD and not worse than C1.

I think we in Belgium take a good start.
It's not official yet, but we will organise in 2007 a bonitation.

Greatings and happy new year
Patrick Cools
"csw belgium"

Can I give one idea??

I think that alone breeders can breed ("make" pupies), but, is simply impossible impeach owners to make pupies without any control.
But, is possible minimise the cases of these unprogramed litters put the castration in contrac, here this have functioned very well with the Bernese mountain dog and with the Australian sheepheard, with the Bernese the pupies is castrate with 7 weeks, I find this age very early, but, with the Aussies the pet dogs are castrate with 6 months ( before the first heath) the castration is put in a contract, and the dog is castrate by one veterinary that was chose by the breeder / club...
Why not do the same with the CzW?
Isn't difficult and, really, I not find that one owner, people who not want breeding, have to pass the "heat phasis", this want say, the behaviour change and other things common in the heat.


Greetings

Paula

[Rona]

Paula, this is not the issue. What Patrick meant was that good, valuable and well socialised wolfdogs can be bred in any country, not only in the the Czech Republic and Slovakia.

This is true, of course. The "quality" of the pups does not depend on their place of birth and HD results only, but on many other factors too, which were mentioned earlier in the topic.

[Koos]

Hello Rona,

I agree with you and Paula, Rona has right.

It is possible to breed any kind of dog in a certain country but the orriginal countries has more experience and qualified dogs.

But also the in the new countries breeders will try to do their utmost and selecting dogs for breeding and try to do the same thing as in the original countries.

The point is, that not EVERY breeders will do this and also select breeders from new countries, which try to do this well.

Also we go with our dogs to the original countries and make bonitations and other things with our dogs, therefore we are not
worser than in the original countries.

Otherwise no new race in another country than in the original country has the possibility to stand up because than all the breeders in the new country are bad?????

Greetings,

letty