CZW-"unpredictable and dangerous"???

[Seijun]

Was talking to someone on another forum, and was told this:

you can own a Czechoslovakian Wolfdog, he has only low % of wolf blood now and still they are very hard to keep, highly unstable dogs, can be very dangerous and can work with only a single owner for the rest of there lifes.

I asked them about this statement, and got this:

i do talked to this breeders espesialy the canaan dogs and the Czechs, i personaly know the first breeder to bring them to Israel he lives half an hour from us. more to that i studied this two breeds because we wanted to breed the Czech dogs and after studing we had some secound thoughts and the same for the canaans.

Your opinions? Just from what I have seen, I have never thought of the CZW as being highly unpredictable or dangerous, and I don't see why it would be impossible for them to work with another person at some other point in their lives. A CZW may bond closely with just one owner, but supposing that owner died, I don't see why it would be impossible for them to bond with someone else. Maybe not as closely, but bond all the same..

??

~Seij

[Mirkawolf]

My opinion is, that such "story" is a bunch of bullsh**

My experiences are, that things like this say about Czechoslovakian wolfdogs always people, who never cared about proper socialisation of the dog, educating and training the dog. They just think they buy the dog and keep it at home and everything will be fine!
Very often these people also call themselves breeders, but in fact, they are "puppy factories" who keep the adult dogs in kennels and cages all their lives and use them only for breeding purposes.
Very often breeders do not care to who they sell their puppy, which results with many owners, that have no experience with normal dogs or animals whatsoever, and they just buy a wolfdog! Troubles are then not too far, of course.
I am really sick of hearing all these ugly rumours all the time. CSW´s are not exactly the easiest dog breed, but definately they are not more dangerous than any other breed of the same size. Neither they are unpredictable, extremely shy or aggressive. They do tend to bound on one person and that is usually the one they consider to be the super-alpha. But a normal well behaved wolfdog understands he´s the last in the family´s hierarchy and will (and should) listen to everyone in the family. And of course, no wolfdog will suicide because he lost temporarily (or even for good) his master. Yes, the dog might howl few days, might be sad, might not eat. But definatelly will live and handle the situation.

Please do not listen to people like the one you quoted. Use your own senses, read about the breed, talk to people, that work with their dogs, that actually do something with them. It will give you much better view on the breed.

[Koos]

Hello Seij,

I am fully agree with Mirka. A CW is a beautifull dog for his owner and his family.

That the CW is not the most easyest dog, that is true but he is not dangerous at all. Of course you can make him so far that he will attack to everything and everybody, but that you can do also with other races. But from his nature, he will never attack when it is not necessary. But he also want to protect his owner and his family.

When my information is right, there are a few CW's is the Israelian Army at this moment.

And by the way, we have imported 3 CW's ( 2 males and a female) older then 2 years and they obey as well as the other dogs. Of course it is a strange situation for them the first 2 -3 days but then they feel comfortable in the new situation and it never gives problems.

As Mirka said, don't listen to the stories but speak with people or write with people who has experiences with these dogs.

Many greetings,

Letty from Holland

[mijke]

Hello Seij

I have contact with some owners of CsW in Israel, and I am 100% sure they should not agree wit the the opinion of the person from whom you got these answers!

I also know there are few unpredictable and more or less agressive CsW in Israel, but when you should know how these dogs were raised and socialised as a puppy, you did knew the answer why they became like this

And for your info: in Israel are also people who are telling that their dog is a kind of CsW...... but I know in reality they have a real pure wolf mix. And these hybrids are indead a lot of times unpedictable because you don't know when they behave like dog and when like wolf.
It is a pity that these owners call them CsW in your country.....

CsW is indead not a easy breed and not the right pet for everyone. But for people with some knowledge about dogs and natural behaviour it is one of the most fine and reliable breeds you can wish!!

Without any problem our dogs are walking free in house and garden when we have visitors with playing little children My dogs are so reliable that I can take them with me when I am working on big events with children or older youth
Sometimes I have to work with haevy handicapped youth, and I did wish you could see how these very sensitive dogs behave on such days.
And I think you 'll understand that I could never take the risc to take "unpredictable/unstable dogs" with me to such kind of work

At the other hand my very social dogs, 'll not aloud that anybody enters my house without my permission. But when they see (I don't need to say anything in such cases) it's OK with me, they only sniff visitors and ignore them. And when they only have see them once in their life they are very happy to see them again!

An other example?
On this moment our house is full with youth (about 40 people) because one of my sons has a big party Our CsW's are (just like our other dogs ) sleeping between all these noisy young people and very loud music. When new boys/girls arrive they even don't go anymore to the frontdoor, they only have a very short look at me and then they close their eyes again Because this breed can also read minimal reactions of their owner A few minutes ago one of them did open his eyes because the bell was ringing again and only a wink of my was enough for him to go to sleep again And that is a male of an unstable dogbreed???????

So I think in your country (as well as in mine ) are a lot of fairy tales about this breed.

I also can 100% agree with the topics of Mirka and Letty and I hope you 'll want (ecxept corresponding) also visit some responseble owners of a CsW

greetings,
mijke

[Seijun]

Thanks guys for the replys. I hadn't thought this person was right, but I wanted to check because their info apparently came from a breeder. I couldn't imagine a breeder putting that much negativity on their own dogs. I don't have any CZW experience yet. So far, my only experience is with wolf hybrids. Someday I hope to get a CZW to see how they compare. The CZW sounds like a great breed. It's amazing how fast rumors can start on a breed though. It's a shame that there is already so much misinformation being spread about them.

~Seij

[Natalya]

I'm a bit late, all that should be said is already said But when I see words "breeder from Israel" I can't be silent

Seijun, could you please reveal the name of that "first Israelian breeder"? Is his name Genady?

If it is he, that all that he said is true. If a man keeps CzW in cages, never let them going out and communicate with other dogs, animals and people, don't pay attention to them and DON'T LOVE them - there will be unpredictable, shy, aggressive and dangerous creatures.

But when such dogs are picked up by a person, who will love and care them - then they will turn into a normal CzWs. But it takes a lot of time and labours.

[mijke]

Hi Natalya,

Indead the first CsW breeder in Israel was Gennadij P. (kennel Belij klik)
But he don't breed anymore. And in the mean time all his adult dogs did find good new homes.

But when you read the topic of Seijun again, you can see that his Quotes did not come from Gennadi but did come from a breeder of an other breed who did want in the past also to breed with CsW. And after studying the breed he did not want anymore.

greetings,
mijke

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by mijke

And after studying the breed he did not want anymore.

Heh, I´d very much like to know, how and where he "studied" the breed. Such news and rumours only give bad light to the breed.

[Seijun]

I have invited her to join the discussion and let us know more about where she got her info. All we can do is wait and hope I guess..

~Seij

[Seijun]

Got word back, the breeder she talked to was Gennadi. She still insists that the CZW is, overall, "unstable" in temperament Somehow, I don't think she can be reasoned with, or wants to...

~Seij

[Mirkawolf]

All I can do is hope, that "she" will never get Czechoslovakian wolfdog.

[Natalya]

So I was right. What Genady can tell about wolfdogs if he kept them only for producing puppies?

If you want to hear the objective opinion about the breed, call to Anna Dyman. She took Abba Schovanka from Genady and spent a lot of time and patience to turn it into a normal dog. The result is - Anna's newborn baby was sleeping with Abba and later learned to walk holding Abba's tail.

[Ori]

Originally Posted by Natalya

So I was right. What Genady can tell about wolfdogs if he kept them only for producing puppies? .

So we can be happy he is not breeding now, and hope that never again!

Natalya do you know something about Abba's and a child photos?

greeting
Ela

[dolev]

hey
I'm from Israel. I know Gennadij and he's the breeder of my female CZW.
As all of u know - a good breeder allways wants to sell the puppies to good owners.
When I was in Gennadij's house to take a puppy, first off all we spoke about the breed and Gennadij told me about the temperament and character of the breed. He never told such things about CZWs that some of u think he said. I believe there was a giant miss understanding.
Also, the puppies were very cheap and Gennadij was happy to sell us one puppy only when we finished to speak about the breed and when he heard that my brother is a dog trainer and relized that my family and I
can be good owners of a CZW.

Surely he didn't keep them for producing puppies !!!!!

Gennadij is a very good breeder. his dogs are trained to defence and they practice agility. He loved them so much and treated them well.
When I needed advices and help with my dog he allways gave good advices.

Don't write bad words on someone u don't know or didn't hear what he says about the subject.

greetings,
Dolev Roitman

[Natalya]

Ela, I'll ask permisson of the dog and child owner to show their photos to everyone here.

Dear Dolev Roitman, if Genady is a good breeder, then explain us, please, why all his dogs are not with him now? How can you explain the fact that "trained to defence and practice agility" Cezar had to change a lot of owners - nobody could live with angry and furious dog? Why Abba Schovanka refused to go out of the house, being in panic on the street full of cars, dogs and people?

AND... small addition.. GOOD BREEDER wants and tries to improve the breed, isn't he? Can you honestly tell that dogs from Gennady's kennel are good? Can you swear that some of them are pure CzW?

[Seijun]

Some more from her about her thoughts on the CZW, when I asked her to explain why she thought they were dengerous and unstable:

a stible dogs is first of all a dog that can make differens between work time and non working time, exsample: your dog gaurds youe office at nights, but by days he allows to people to come in and he always friendly with them, if those people will try to come in at night them same dog will attack.
you can make mistakes on a stible dog and corect them nore easely without side effects.
stible dog can hold a lot of pressure during his defence training and then work it in the really life, if the trainer made mistake and put to much pressure on unprapered dog the dog will recouver fast and come back to work stright away.
and of course staible dog can endure fast chenging evviroment without alow it to harm him mantly.
staible dog won't show shines when he working protection, he's very calm evem when working on a sleev or baiting sout with alot of pressure from defence and fight drive.
to miss it up czech dog can be gaurd dog, you can also train them in protection, but there unstaibleness WILL make them dengerous when they can tell when they are working and when not and there primitiv instic for self presvirng.
i can explane it for pages and pages, it's one of the most immoprtent sides of working dogs studies and words them self can't explane it right.
if you see very aggresive dog it don't means that he also staible.

~Seij

[Dharkwolf]

This statement about the stability of the CSW begs to be answered.

There are many misconceptions about a CSW, most of them seem to arise from comparing them to other dog breeds – this seems to be one of them.

Certainly the statement about CSW is correct to some exent, it is much harder to correct a training mistake with a CSW than with other breeds, and it is not simple (but nonetheless possible) to train it to recognize a situation as was described above ie: To guard during the night and be friendly to people during the day.

This is simply because CSWs think in a different way from other dogs… they are far more independent and they take their own initiatives – unless checked by a clear message from their master – in any situation.

Does this make them unstable? Hardly. I have two CSW and I can predict their behaviour without much trouble 99% of the time (yes there is that niggling 1% - but in my experience that is there in the best trained Malinois or German shepherd too). Furthermore the character of the CSW is intrinsically predictable – within certain limits. Take any pup from the breed, and so long as it has been raised by a decent breeder (who provides the pup with all it needs in the first few weeks of life – a short but critical period) and as a norm you will know what kind of dog you are getting, though naturally within certain limits. Once you get the dog it is up to you to educate, train and raise it – This shapes the character of the dog in some ways, but unless the input which the dog receives from its owner is confusing or inconsistent (always from the dog’s point of view!) then the character of the dog will be stable (predictable – at least by its master) and he will make a great companion and potentially a great working dog too (if that is what he has been taught to do)

The example of the dog in the office is a telling one, because it shows how the expectations of that person are linked to his understanding of other breeds – as the CSW does not perform like another breed then he is “unstable and dangerous”

Now what would happen if I had my CSWs in an office? During the day they would have learnt to accept that people come and go – they would not react to them in any way. At night they would probably alert me in some way (not necessarily by barking mind you) if someone was approaching but they would again, not necessarily attack.

However should I be threatened be it night or day and be it by a stranger or by someone the dogs know well – the reaction will be fast and simple, my dogs will protect me – and on my (stern and strict!) command they will stop any protective behaviour they may have started.

Does that make them unstable? I don’t think so – it makes them independent. They will listen to their pack leader but they retain the right to act on their own judgement, which is shaped by what I have taught them (they would never see a yelling screaming running child as a threat – even if it was to poke them in eye – Not talking through my teeth here I have seen this happen). No the CSW is very stable and with the right training they are no more dangerous than any large dog with a powerful jaw. But if you think a CSW should act and behave like a German Shepherd or a Malinois (no offence meant to either of those great breeds) then you are simply going to be frustrated, and pass by the opportunity of knowing a great animal.

“Dangerous and Unstable”? No… just different. Wonderfully different.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

I absolutely agree with Dharkwolf and would even go further. We see a lot of German Shepherds and Mallinois in our dog shool and looking at daily life situations Czechoslowakian Wolfdogs are a lot more pedictable than those two breeds because they are much more able to decide independently. We see a lot of dogs of those breeds that are not reliable with small running children because they are extremly reactive on prey-situations. Our wolfdogs are always extremly reliable with small children because they treat them as a puppy even if they run and screem and even fall down.
If it comes to protection I can (and have) taken all of our dogs to my daily work in the office, they will ly down and wait, no matter who is coming. Everybody can come to our place and house - if we are at home and great them- they won´t attack. If we are not at home or are attacked ourselfs they will protect, in a very reliable way, and they stop attacking as soon as the threatening of us stops or when we tell them to stop. None of our dogs has ever done any defence training.

For me, and we have a lot of experience with very different breeds, wolfdogs are one of the most reliable ones as long as they have been brought up and been socialised properly.

Ina

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by Ori

So we can be happy he is not breeding now, and hope that never again!

Natalya do you know something about Abba's and a child photos?

greeting
Ela

Penalty that this is only 1 "breeder" of as much other "breeders" who are as it, if not worse.
still it exists those breeders who are deceived and finish buying CzW mixed whit German Shepherd, and not to leave losing even finish crossing this with CzWs pure and sould as "pure CzW puppies", (can to be for "unfamiliarity"(not know the cause) of that the animal who has is mixed same because who loves the breed would never make this).

About the topic

Not exist dangerous breed, exist stupid owners.


greetings

Paula Helm Pandolfo

[Seijun]

Dharkwolf, I agree very much with what you said. This lady sounded to me like she wanted a molosser-type dog out of the CZW. Molosser dogs are about as "unwolf-like" in behavior as any type of dog out there. The CZW is still very close to the more primitive wolf-like behaviors (strong intelligence, independance, etc.) and thus they are also like opposites of the molosser dogs. She also sounded like she wanted the extreme obediant personality of GSD's, rather than the independance of the CZW. Independant dogs are often seen as unstable by people who do not understand them, they are so much different than the public's image of a dog.

~Seij