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Old 22-02-2013, 10:40   #21
Rona
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Originally Posted by tupacs2legs View Post
When she caught up with him he was waiting on the front doorstep!!!(He obviously thought I was in the shop section)..... He had never been out that way
So familiar independent reasoning

Last semester I had free Thursday mornings and every week took my girl to the city common to play with her dog friends. This semester on Thursdays I start work at 8.00 am. Guess what my bright vlcak did yesterday? When we were at work she devoured my Błonia boots and bag nicely ignoring all other available items including elegant leather boots. Not only did she know it was Thursday but she managed to communicate her message very explicitly
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Old 23-02-2013, 17:05   #22
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Since the beginning of this thread I found some things I cannot agree with, so I'll touch them before reading further:

1) experienced / inexperienced

Wolfdog was my first dog ever, I got a large and dominant bitch, I was 16.5 when I got her and managed to do defense training, agility and hiking with her without any great difficulties. Yes, she drove me almost crazy sometimes, but I think experience with other dogs may not get you ready. Either you have it in you or you don't and any amount of labs, GSD or other dog breeds will not help you much.

2) kennel and leaving dog alone

They can stand it. Some have bigger problems, some have no problems. You just may not raise it as a companionship junkie, than it will have problems staying alone. My first dog grew up in our yard, sleeping in my bedroom when small, but only having occasional entry to the house when adult. No problem. My dog now I took to work everyday until around 5 months, then she learned the hard way (at summer camp) to be left alone (she had a wolfdog friend very close, so not completely alone) lot of the day and most nights. Then she lived in a kennel outside our house, being allowed in the yard and garden when we were at home, but only occasionally allowed inside. Now she lives with me in tiny apartment, while I spend at least 9 hours in work daily, she is OK with that. She even goes to other room when I work on the computer, to lie on the couch and sleep alone.

3) dog hotels

Well, no any dog hotel, I am sure. But since she was young, I left Frei in dog hotels when I had to travel because of work, and she is used to it. I just make sure the hotel is able to actually take care of her, meaning that they have good kennels and allow her to play with other suitable dogs, or pay her enough attention themselves. Since she is used to strangers she has no problem obeying people I leave her with, even when they speak other language (she now apparently understands Slovak/Czech, Catalan, English and French).

I am not saying that wolfdog is or is not right for nask, I am saying that the arguments which I mentioned until now are not really valid.
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Old 24-02-2013, 09:32   #23
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Saschia, I think this is a common approach to potential new vlcak owners To present them the worst options possible. If they are determined enough to make their dreams come true, they will. However, they will be better prepared to what they might expect, more open, creative, philosophical, etc.

It's similar to our wolfdogs meeting new dogs. Adult vlcaks tend to threaten (test) almost every new adult dog they meet for the first time. If the new one isn't afraid, displays respect without agression, he is accepted in the pack but if he trembles of fear or shows agression and strong dominance... - not necessarily

We don't only teach our vlckas, we also learn from our pets.
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Old 24-02-2013, 09:47   #24
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Oh Rona, I understand completely the thing about saying the worst stuff about them. But it is simply not true that you cannot leave them alone and that they don't stay in the hotel etc.

Yes, they do destroy everything when they get in that kind of mindset, and they are strong and intelligent enough to be able to get to destroy things other dogs wouldn't dream about. Yes, they need great amounts of time and energy given to them. Yes, their howling can drive neighbors crazy. Yes, they are able to escape better than Houdini. Yes, they will steal your steaks and then come ask for their dinner.

But the things I wrote about were stated in way, that responsible person will think that oups, I am not able to give a wolfdog what it needs, as I didn't volunteer in tortured pit rescue and don't have time 24/7 and have a family and friends and life in general so I better get something easier, like working line Huskie... And irresponsible person will say eff that, I'll get one anyway. Do we want responsible people to get wolfdogs, or the irresponsible one?
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Old 05-03-2013, 13:36   #25
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Hi All,

Please excuse me if what i am asking is very basic information, this is all very new to me but i would like to make the right choice for me, my family and the dog i am looking for.

First of all i am not looking to buy for at least a year, maybe longer, so i am researching for the time being. From what i have gathered on various on line pages is that this dog can be hard to handle, especially for novices or someone who has not had a dog in the past like me......

I think a lot of this is down to the training and socialisation given to the CSV and my thinking is that as long as you get the CSV as a pup then it will grow with you and become the dog you want it to be. I have always wanted a German Shepherd dog for its intelligence, my friend mentioned a Chez Border dog, and i stumbled upon the GSV and well it was love at first sight .


Nas
I can tell you two scenarios, & hopefully they will be of some help in your choice of dog that will suit your lifestyle.

there is a puppy, she can go to anyone whatever fates decide for her. I buy her, I travel to the Czech republic collect her & spend many weeks driving around with her in a foreign country until she is old enough for her jabs & to return to the UK. In this time she is with me around 22/23 hours a day. This is until 4 months old. In this time MY work stopped, contracts were put on hold, family commitments were shelved & loving partners were left at home while in sub zero temperatures my new dog & I bonded. The bonding took several weeks until she began to really trust me. You see when you get a CSV trust is more important than running, cycling being left alone for hours to wait for you. Trust is not easily gained with a very intelligent animal. This will need to be forged in many different situations & scenarios before your dog realises that the world with you at least is a safe place to be.

When we returned home, I went back to work. My dog came with me & when I downed tools for lunch, she came with me. When I went out in the evening, sometimes she came with me sometimes I left her with my partner/friend or father. This took a long time for her to be comfortable with. Sometimes she would bite my partners ankles or cry for an hour. She would attack my fathers curtains & be in a state of anxiety. We persevered though but the willingness of others was key to my dogs happiness. Sometimes people would say, "why do you expect people to help you look after a dog?" I would say, I don't expect it but when she is older please don't come patting her on the head & complimenting her behaviour if you couldn't be bothered to help her when she was young.

Everyday the dog craves to be taught. It is a pleasure to teach such an intelligent willing learner. So I would sit at night often & work out what we would learn in the days & weeks ahead. Like a child what would it learn with a bicycle ride at the weekend & half an hour walk in the morning when it spends this half hour in anxiety because it knows everyday you leave it alone in a shed?

How will the dog learn to accept young children running by it screaming in the park, or men in the pub howling at it & woofing at it & generally getting in your dogs face. How will it learn as it is becoming dominant day by day that the lone man on the track with a stick is not a threat.

Because it takes time, that's your job with a dog like this. It is naturally cautious but capable of understanding & learning to be comfortable in most situations. Hours of time each day & each month that pass by. What you taught it at 7 months may not work now at 15 months because your dog will change dramatically & you will need to teach & help you dog cope with things again & again.

I spend perhaps 30 something hours with my dog per week interacting in someway. My partner spends perhaps 10 hours & other people perhaps 5 hours interacting with her. So has this made her a dog that is comfortable in most situations & a dog that I can trust that trusts me. Sometimes yes sometimes I feel I should've done more. Should have been more intelligent on her behalf. Taken her to a few more football games down the pub rather than given up for 3 months because of the constant distractions & sometimes horrible comments from people.

The second scenerio is this;

Do things your way & let the dog live around your routine. Expect it to somehow understand why it is not being mentally nourished daily & expected to behave impeccably in the park at the weekend. When you come home & it doesn't respect you until you have to shout at it or put it in a cage until it settles. You will have a shy & confused dog I assure you.


By all means get any dog you want, but if you have a job where you will need to be at work all day, when you are not at work you will need to work double hard when you get home. A cycle ride is great, but I would suggest walking & taking the dog into different situations & change the routine alot in the city/countryside. I suggest you take a big holiday from work within the 1st 4 months of it's life to do some serious bonding with the puppy.

A bored CSV is an unhappy CSV. Routine can be good but it also can be terribly boring for people & for dogs.

I suggest you meet a few & you will perhaps see what I mean, to me it is much closer to bringing up a child than a puppy. Sometimes I envy my sister with her little boy, who doesn't have a 500lb bite force, or can clear 8 foot fences to get away from someone he doesn't like!

If you are not going to change your routines I would get a husky or other high energy dog that like running & working around your routine. But it sounds like you do love dogs so maybe you can take heed of peoples advice & have a happy CSV of your own. The fact that you have never had a dog before might inhibit you a little but this can be overcome with your research effort you eventually put in. There are very experienced dog owners that have their dogs on Preloved at this very minute. A 16 year old could own a dog like this for sure if he or she put in the time, love, understanding & effort.

Last edited by TimoleonVieta; 05-03-2013 at 13:42.
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Old 05-03-2013, 21:27   #26
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My 'other breed' is the siberian husky..... They are NOT easier dogs and have their own 'quirks' that involve thinking 'outside the box' and take particular management like wolfdogs! Just without the added trait of guarding instincts...
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Old 08-03-2013, 18:43   #27
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I agree definitly
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Old 12-03-2013, 19:54   #28
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My 'other breed' is the siberian husky..... They are NOT easier dogs and have their own 'quirks' that involve thinking 'outside the box' and take particular management like wolfdogs! Just without the added trait of guarding instincts...
Yes I am sure they are a difficult breed with their own quirks. My bad
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Old 14-03-2013, 22:53   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimoleonVieta View Post
You see when you get a CSV trust is more important than running, cycling being left alone for hours to wait for you.
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Originally Posted by TimoleonVieta View Post
Everyday the dog craves to be taught.
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Originally Posted by TimoleonVieta View Post
A bored CSV is an unhappy CSV. Routine can be good but it also can be terribly boring for people & for dogs.

I agree, and from what I can see this is a breed that needs to be educated by living through experiences and bonding over them with the owner. Real life experiences give you a chance to prove your dog you know what you are doing and also give the dog a chance to learn how things have to be done. They allow your dog to develop self awareness and self control and to learn how actions have consequences and how to deal with them. I find that this teaching/learning/bonding process works very well (at least for me) but it is extremely time "consuming". But also a lot of fun

Anyway I think the hardest part is not to "handle" them, but to make them happy...
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