Saarloos mixes by "Crying Wolf" kennel (CSV red colored) - Page 5

Nebulosa · 07-06-2011, 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorry - MLS

but one thing is certain, I do no fies a photo to pretend that I have found irrefutable proof

Nor me, I only told that we can see what should be an testicle at that photo, and that's why I guessed it's a male.
Even if what looks like a testicle could be several other things.

But well, Elf already found even the datas of the dog in question.

Lorry - MLS · 07-06-2011, 01:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

Hello friends. Is here somebody who has children of pair Moňa z Krotkovskeho dvora + Fallko Kollarov dvor? Or maybe we need pups from Moňa separatelly and Falko´s pups separatelly too.We will be happy about their DNA for help to explain what hapenned in Lorry´s kennel. Thank you.

Hanka, remember my mail recently sent .....
Is it possible that Daniela comes into contact with the person who agrees to conduct such tests with his dog (she is a veterinarian, so no problem for it to make itself the levy in the rules)
In terms of lineage, it is a half brother Galiba (1/2 frères de Galiba) (with Falko in father) so very interesting for a reliable result

mijke · 07-06-2011, 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorry - MLS

knew I was not dreaming and that I had seen red Saarloos, from this breeder, I will not pretend to yesteryear, it is the same as your pictures (or even year) because I simply do not know ....

No Lorry you were not dreaming! I am sorry I did not notice your question before...
I did bring this SWH male to Edit...

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalomyOak

How did the red color come to be in the Saarloos? Aren't they also crosses of GSD and wolf?

The Saarloos breed is indead just like the Csw based on crossings between Wolf x GSD!
And since the start of the breed red and white pups did appear. Only with the red ones was also breeded. (in Holland this color red is mentionent as “forrest brown” )
And never were made official mixes with nordic breeds!

But maybe (like in all kind of breeds!!

) some breeders did cheat and did make “crossings” and did registrate like Saarloos.
SWH colors accepted by breed standard are: Light till dark wolfgrey, light till dark brown (forrest brown), light creme till white . Wolfgrey with black nose, forrest brown with liver color nose, white both color noses are accepted but liver color is to prefer.

A lot about colors of GSD you can find HERE (3 pages and also photo’s)
The saarloos database you can find HERE

mijke · 07-06-2011, 01:31

The owner of one of the offspring of Fallko Kollarov dvor is willing to cooperate with DNA research

Just contact me in private for more info.

Nebulosa · 07-06-2011, 04:16

Before I was thinking that F Crying wolf could have double parentage, now that we have more informations about a possible accident coming from an forest-brown Saarloos things changed a bit for me.
Dvorak, the brown Saarloos born in 2003 (according to the ShW stats), that turns impossible to F litter have double parentage.
We have S, V and Y Crying Wolf doing weird puppies, S born at 2005, V at 2006 and Y at 2007, all possible years to an accident happen if this Saarloos was there all this time, we could be sure that he was there in 2007 due the photo done by Lorry (???).

If it is so, then would be easier to take samples of these litters (specifically the pups which are showing this problem) and compare with the blood of Dvorak itself.

Rona · 07-06-2011, 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

If it is so, then would be easier to take samples of these litters (...) and compare with the blood of Dvorak itself.

Probably easier said than done, unless Edit agrees to cooperate.

yukidomari · 07-06-2011, 07:53

But possible to test if they are half siblings to Dvorek's known Saarloos litters, right? Because at the least they can't share dams.. Assuming they may cooperate.

Hanka · 07-06-2011, 08:18

Yes, I know, we can use his SAV pups too. But first we ask about help owners of csw. We prefer not mix to this problem other breeds.......
Thanks to people which contacted me with DNA of their dogs, it is nice.
I think it can be interest, if we can know what hapenned.......
If we will have more samples of DNA, we can know more info.
Daniela will do everything what is possible to research.

yukidomari · 07-06-2011, 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

Yes, I know, we can use his SAV pups too. But first we ask about help owners of csw. We prefer not mix to this problem other breeds.......
Thanks to people which contacted me with DNA of their dogs, it is nice.
I think it can be interest, if we can know what hapenned.......
If we will have more samples of DNA, we can know more info.
Daniela will do everything what is possible to research.

Thanks Hanka! You are right, that would be the best possible method. Thanks for your explanation.

wolfin · 07-06-2011, 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

Yes, I know, we can use his SAV pups too. But first we ask about help owners of csw. We prefer not mix to this problem other breeds.......
Thanks to people which contacted me with DNA of their dogs, it is nice.
I think it can be interest, if we can know what hapenned.......
If we will have more samples of DNA, we can know more info.
Daniela will do everything what is possible to research.

if need moore example from dogs M z Krotkovskeho dvora only say I can send salive example from this line dogs who we have

Hanka · 07-06-2011, 11:19

Hello all, thanks to all offers of DNA from all people here. Daniela is so sorry, she can´t continue with this researching, for her personal reasons.

Priska182 · 07-06-2011, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

Hello all, thanks to all offers of DNA from all people here. Daniela is so sorry, she can´t continue with this researching, for her personal reasons.

That's really sad

wolfin · 07-06-2011, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Priska182

That's really sad

are others laboratory and others people who can due this.
Only mas make testing plan and make this

Gypsy Wolf · 07-06-2011, 19:41

There are also two other genetic "issues" to consider... the first is spontaneous mutation - for additional information on this Google "Panda SHepherds" - pure West German highline GSDs that produced white-patched pups - one parent had a spontaneous mutation for this and it is currently being studied by University of California. ANother is "Chimerism" - Google "Chimera" where unexpected DNA plays a role - brindle colored horses, for instance, and it has been seen in humans, where a woman gave birth to her SISTER'S offspring (the baby she concieved and gave birth to was NOT genetically related to her but to a "sister" whose genes she carries as the "sister" was absorbed by her in the fetal stage).
Just because wild wolves, GSDs, etc. do not display mutations of color does not mean they do not exist in the gene pool.
Remember all dogs descend from the wolf, so there is the potential for anything in the genetics. Pushed-in faces are not seen in the wolf or GSD but is seen in wolf descendents like the Bully breeds, showing that wolf genetics are indeed a maleable "material" and likely to have spontaneous mutations from time to time...

wolfin · 07-06-2011, 19:47

a little streng when this "mutation" have not only mutation in collor and pigment but and in anatomy

Mikael · 07-06-2011, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

Yes, I know, we can use his SAV pups too. But first we ask about help owners of csw. We prefer not mix to this problem other breeds.......
Thanks to people which contacted me with DNA of their dogs, it is nice.
I think it can be interest, if we can know what hapenned.......
If we will have more samples of DNA, we can know more info.
Daniela will do everything what is possible to research.

Good Work Hanka !!!

Very best regards / Mikael

Mikael · 07-06-2011, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfin

a little streng when this "mutation" have not only mutation in collor and pigment but and in anatomy

Yes that is extreamly strange

And only the DNA will / can tell us way, where and when

Very best regards / Mikael

Mikael · 07-06-2011, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

Hello all, thanks to all offers of DNA from all people here. Daniela is so sorry, she can´t continue with this researching, for her personal reasons.

Hmmm... And what is her personal reasan if I may ask

???

She do not want to find out, where when and how

???

Best regards / M

Hanka · 08-06-2011, 06:34

Mikael, you must ask her personally....

Priska182 · 08-06-2011, 07:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunas Mom

There are also two other genetic "issues" to consider... the first is spontaneous mutation - for additional information on this Google "Panda SHepherds" - pure West German highline GSDs that produced white-patched pups - one parent had a spontaneous mutation for this and it is currently being studied by University of California. ANother is "Chimerism" - Google "Chimera" where unexpected DNA plays a role - brindle colored horses, for instance, and it has been seen in humans, where a woman gave birth to her SISTER'S offspring (the baby she concieved and gave birth to was NOT genetically related to her but to a "sister" whose genes she carries as the "sister" was absorbed by her in the fetal stage).

Thanks!

the Panda Shepherds case is really interesting!...

07-06-2011, 01:31	#84
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	The owner of one of the offspring of Fallko Kollarov dvor is willing to cooperate with DNA research Just contact me in private for more info. __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!!

07-06-2011, 04:16	#85
Nebulosa Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Rio Grande do Sul Posts: 1,334	Before I was thinking that F Crying wolf could have double parentage, now that we have more informations about a possible accident coming from an forest-brown Saarloos things changed a bit for me. Dvorak, the brown Saarloos born in 2003 (according to the ShW stats), that turns impossible to F litter have double parentage. We have S, V and Y Crying Wolf doing weird puppies, S born at 2005, V at 2006 and Y at 2007, all possible years to an accident happen if this Saarloos was there all this time, we could be sure that he was there in 2007 due the photo done by Lorry (???). If it is so, then would be easier to take samples of these litters (specifically the pups which are showing this problem) and compare with the blood of Dvorak itself. __________________

07-06-2011, 19:47	#95
wolfin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Where the wolf lives Posts: 6,095	a little streng when this "mutation" have not only mutation in collor and pigment but and in anatomy __________________

07-06-2011, 07:53	#87
yukidomari Moderator Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Los Angeles CA Posts: 847	But possible to test if they are half siblings to Dvorek's known Saarloos litters, right? Because at the least they can't share dams.. Assuming they may cooperate.

07-06-2011, 08:18	#88
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	Yes, I know, we can use his SAV pups too. But first we ask about help owners of csw. We prefer not mix to this problem other breeds....... Thanks to people which contacted me with DNA of their dogs, it is nice. I think it can be interest, if we can know what hapenned....... If we will have more samples of DNA, we can know more info. Daniela will do everything what is possible to research.

07-06-2011, 11:19	#91
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	Hello all, thanks to all offers of DNA from all people here. Daniela is so sorry, she can´t continue with this researching, for her personal reasons.

07-06-2011, 19:41	#94
Gypsy Wolf Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Florida & Minnesota U.S. Posts: 252	There are also two other genetic "issues" to consider... the first is spontaneous mutation - for additional information on this Google "Panda SHepherds" - pure West German highline GSDs that produced white-patched pups - one parent had a spontaneous mutation for this and it is currently being studied by University of California. ANother is "Chimerism" - Google "Chimera" where unexpected DNA plays a role - brindle colored horses, for instance, and it has been seen in humans, where a woman gave birth to her SISTER'S offspring (the baby she concieved and gave birth to was NOT genetically related to her but to a "sister" whose genes she carries as the "sister" was absorbed by her in the fetal stage). Just because wild wolves, GSDs, etc. do not display mutations of color does not mean they do not exist in the gene pool. Remember all dogs descend from the wolf, so there is the potential for anything in the genetics. Pushed-in faces are not seen in the wolf or GSD but is seen in wolf descendents like the Bully breeds, showing that wolf genetics are indeed a maleable "material" and likely to have spontaneous mutations from time to time...

08-06-2011, 06:34	#99
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	Mikael, you must ask her personally....