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Upbringing & character How to care for a puppy, how to socialize it, the most common problems with CzW, how to solve them....

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Old 09-04-2007, 10:12   #1
pisculli
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Default Is it better to have another female or male puppy?? Why??

I have already a LUPO ITALIANO female ISIDE (about 3 y old) and a
Ceskoslovensky vlcak female NUT (10 months old) and I am looking for a third wolfdog but I hesitate between male or female.What do you think??
Michele
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:57   #2
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Hi!
First off I just want to tell you that you have two very beautiful dogs!
I think I would suggest getting a male puppy next. It looks like your two girls get along just fine but I think thats because your Czech Wolfdog pup grew up with the older female being dominant, kinda like a mother figure, but from what I've been told, female Wolfdogs normally don't get along to well so introducing a new female might make your 10 month old feel imtimadated and turn against the new pup.
I have a 2 year old male Czech Wolfdog and a 5 year old female German Shepherd dog and they get along great and keep each other in line.
[Two dogs is all I can handle!] :P
But if you're set on another girl, I'm sure with proper training and patience they'll all get along just fine.
Have fun with your new puppy!



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Old 10-04-2007, 10:23   #3
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let my start by saying you have a beautifull little pack, which seems to get alongnicely!

I think introducing a 3rd dog to your pack is not really easy.
My choise would be a bitch, simply becasue the fakt that a male in the pack might influence the current balance between your 2 bitches too much, my end up in a competition between the two of them.
I think however that both your dogs being so young, one barely adult, one still a puppy a lot might still change in your pack!

Did the 10 month old already had a heath period?
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Old 10-04-2007, 12:58   #4
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I agree with Nanouk. Introducing now a third dog into your pack, male of female, might be a big problem. I do not know, why of all things you think about third dog, but o.k., some people have more dogs and they like it. However, according to my opinion, it is not at the moment, considering age of your dogs, the best idea.

I have several reasons to think so:

1) Your younger female is not mature yet. As a CSW, she probably was not in heat yet, and she will be fully mature in 2-3 years. Many many things might change between the two females in that time. The younger one will not always be a puppy. It is very probable, that the younger CSW will sooner or later challenge the older female for position in the pack. It is natural for these dogs and if you do not prevent it (by training and maintaining the alpha role in the pack, and the order in the pack yourself), there might occur fights in the pack of two girls later.
I´ve heard about this to happen too many times to think, it would be different. For the idea that "mother" and "daughter", real ones or not, will get along better, that is total utopia. Several cases from my friends families prooved, that "daughter", usually real one, took over the mother´s position as soon as she matured .
Therefore, introducing another female into this situation, would be highly risky. The relationship between the two females you have now, might change greatly once the CSW goes in heat and matures. Bringing another female would and could unbalance the relationship they have now. Two CSW females, if not trained, socialised and kept in their right hierarchy order, will sooner or later fight each other.

2) Bringing a male into a pack of two females, is also very bad idea. And that from several reasons. First, the two females might and probably would start to fight each other for the males attention, especially when they go in heat. The male will choose one he likes more, and he together with this female might even try to turn against the other female.
A male (non-castrated) will also suffer, when the females are in heat and he can´t cover them, yet he smells them and know they are there. He will (especially if it is CSW) howl, stop eating and will keep crying for good two or three weeks. Nothing to enjoy, really.
Plus, to prevent unwanted matings, you have to keep them separate in these periods, it is all more difficult to handle and gets on nerves for everyone.
So unless you plan to breed, or at least you plan to neuter the male, getting a male is not good idea at all.

3) A puppy CSW, if introduced into a pack of two dogs, is very likely to get attached to them and less to their master. It requires twice as much effort for socialising and training and education, to raise the dog to be fine in the head and at ease with people and things. You´d have to take the puppy on walks also alone, without the other dogs and devote it a lot of time. I am no beginner, but I think I´d not feel like getting a third CSW (puppy) to my two girls.

4) Last but not least, males are not so easy as females. They tend to be more dominant, more territorial, more stubborn and harder to manage. Especially males CSW are hard to deal with and they do fight other male dogs, if they get a chance. Do you really want that?
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Old 10-04-2007, 17:18   #5
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Default Male or female?

I wish to thank you for all your comments.
I like to specify that just in these days Nut got her first heath. 10months e 3 days old. she astonished also the breeder because the Nut's sisters still haven't it.
Both females are already in competion particularly when my wife opens in the morning the garden door and they rush to the first floor to give me the wake up or during the meals. At moment Iside is the alpha component also if she is 26,4 kg vs 30kg Nut's weight. I am spending a lot of time with them to explain the equality and not the dominant concept but it isn't easy also if I got some results to reduce competition.
Why do I wish a third wolf dog?
Interacting with wolfdog world I improved my interior quality life, compensating for modern human relationships very poor and superficial, in general (I mean that it is the new modern standard in the human world: mediocrity first!!).
I think that I will opt for a male because in my deep feelings I wish to have , in a next future,a cec.wolfdog breeding starting with the amazing NUT (Lastnavarre and Akela daughter).
Michele
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Old 10-04-2007, 19:19   #6
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Quote:
Why do I wish a third wolf dog?
Interacting with wolfdog world I improved my interior quality life, compensating for modern human relationships very poor and superficial, in general (I mean that it is the new modern standard in the human world: mediocrity first!!).
I think that I will opt for a male because in my deep feelings I wish to have , in a next future,a cec.wolfdog breeding starting with the amazing NUT (Lastnavarre and Akela daughter).
I can understand your reasons, i used to be one of those who thought more is better, but having to rehome my male SWH because my two dogs had severe problems with eachother, have made me come to the conclusion that i rather have a small 2-er pack that is harmonious, than 3 or more dogs with the stress that might come with it, followed by the pain of possibly rehoming one!
I say might, there are more 3 dogs or more packs, harmonious ones, or packs where the owner doesn't mind having dogs in kennels, seperating them, or with an occasional fight..

personally, i would put my love and attention in the two ladies you already have, work with your ladies, see if your Nut is suited for breeding, and exploid your options to find a nice adult male that will be suited for mating with her.
If she has the puppies than, and you still want a 3rd dog you can always opt to keep one of your own puppies. By that time you know how all works out with the two bitches you have, and to me it's close to my biggest dream to ever be able to own a self bred puppy
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Old 11-04-2007, 10:57   #7
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You wrote:
"I am spending a lot of time with them to explain the equality and not the dominant concept but it isn't easy also if I got some results to reduce competition."

To whom are you explainnig to your wife or to your two dogs? If you mean your dogs, I can only shake my head because it seems to me as if you know nothing about dogs, wolves and their behaviour! In a pack of dogs and/or wolves is everytime a leader a dominant one who "says" what is going on. To try to explain to them that all members of the pack are equal and should behave like this, is like trying to fly with a aeroplane to the moon. Do you really want to invent new rules for being together with dogs?

What will happen if you act like this? Your dogs will show you who is the boss. As Nanouk is saying and the others too, your dogs are so young, please let them be adult and then think over new things. You have to wait til 2,5-3 years and then you will find out how they interact. I am wondering about getting into heat by a 10 month young csw although you have an oldert female in the house. It seems to me, that the young lady will become the leader of the pack. Normally a young female will get into heat more later if there is an older female in the house. These could be signs that in your house is in the moment no real leader even you are not!

And to say you will breed with Nuts, she is so young, you don´t know how she will develop. You have to x-ray her hips, you have to do shows and judges have to confirm that she is in the standard and good enough for breed. A real breeder would do this first.

And of course the most people who have more than 2 csw have different kennels and seperate them otherwise they bite each other for fighting for the lead! I don´t think that this is what you mean with you modern art of live or what you have written. That is reality. It will be stress and you have to have a lot of power to manage it. You have to have an eye for the next fighting if you would like to prevent it. You have to be able to read your dogs.

Your words seem very unexperienced and not really from a world of csw, lupo italiano and wolves and of course simple dogs.

Sorry, for my open words, but I don´t like if animals have to suffer because people don´t think in reality but only in their wishes and dreams.

Christian
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:39   #8
pisculli
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Default Christian you are right

I know that alpha element in a pack, little or big, is fundamental. I am trying to avoid that reaction is very bloody: female with jealousy some time are very cruel and in italian forum I read very strong stories with 1 of female given in adoption to prevent the killing of female more weakness.
I know that Nut will become in the next short future time alpha element and we have some signs to say it:1. Character,2. precocious heath, 3. parents with dominant personality (lastnavarre and Akela del passo del lupo).
Of course before to think a litter it is necessary bonitation (Rx is obligatory) and wait at least second or third heath.
NUT 3 weeks ago in an international show was second excellent and in this judg has been fundamental the ring lack of experience of the handler, my son Andrea , first ring for him.
Time , it is necessary, but we can go on with dreams.
Your opinion is welcome.
Michele
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Old 11-04-2007, 13:41   #9
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Hello Michele,

we have 5 wolfdogs, one male and four females that all live together. In our case it works out very well but the reasons simply are that we are very experienced with handling big groups of dogs and have no difficulties in keeping the right rank order and that our Alpha female, that is the mother of the three others is an extremly good pack leader and keeps control.
I wouldn´t dare to get a new puppy in the situation you live in at the moment, to be honest I would wait till the second female is fully grown and the rankorder is stabile and then have a look on a new dog.
In you situation now extrem fights between the females are very likely to happen if you add a new dog to the pack, no matter which sex. There should be at least 2 years between the youngest dogs, everything else tends to be very exhausting.

Regards Ina
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Old 11-04-2007, 13:56   #10
pisculli
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Default Re: Christian you are right

Quote:
Originally Posted by pisculli
I know that alpha element in a pack, little or big, is fundamental. I am trying to avoid that reaction is very bloody: female with jealousy some time are very cruel and in italian forum I read very strong stories with 1 of female given in adoption to prevent the killing of female more weakness.
I know that Nut will become in the next short future time alpha element and we have some signs to say it:1. Character,2. precocious heat, 3. parents with dominant personality (lastnavarre and Akela del passo del lupo).
Of course before to think a litter it is necessary bonitation (Rx is obligatory) and wait at least second or third heat.
NUT 3 weeks ago in an international show was second excellent and in this judg has been fundamental the ring lack of experience of the handler, my son Andrea , first ring for him.
Time , it is necessary, but we can go on with dreams.
Your opinion is welcome.
Michele
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Old 11-04-2007, 18:21   #11
hanninadina
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Hello Michele,

parden me I forgot to say that your dogs look very nice!!! Even the lupo italiano.

I guess I know what you want to say us. Have a nice time with your dogs. Time will come and surely Nut will be some day mother.

Christian
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