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Old 09-10-2008, 22:37   #41
michaelundinaeichhorn
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Hi Taloowa,

coming back to the point. What are you talking about anyway?
About so called Czech wolves or just ordinary, bloody Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs?
The latter mentioned is, by the way, a FCI recognized breed.

Cheers,
Michael
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Old 09-10-2008, 22:42   #42
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Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs.....thats were i started....... thats what i have a crossbred of.......its late and to confusing lol


How ever the breed here is not recognised
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Old 09-10-2008, 22:42   #43
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I take it Mikel you mean someone just mixing a czech with a labrador or soemthing when u say a wild cross? as in its not been thought about ?
No I meant crossing whit Saarloos, GSD or new wolves whitaot any tests...Crossing a CsV whit labrador I think nobody will do becose there are no reasen...

But yes I know there are pedigree Saarloos whit CsV in the bood line, and that might bee good fore the Saarloos wolfhound but I do not think nobody wonts Saarloos in there CsV pedigree, if you know what I mean...

/ M
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Old 09-10-2008, 22:44   #44
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Originally Posted by taloowa View Post
lynx legend is mother and grandparents are atlasz and lexa seda eminence
I´ve read in this forum that lynx legend was born in August 2001, had a litter (with brix de louba tar) in December 2003 and died in January 2004.

If these informations are true it seems you own at least one pure CsW!!??
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Old 09-10-2008, 23:01   #45
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well the orignal czech wolf was created to try and help the gsd, and its problems, the same as the sarloos, netiher people then were experts, and the experts are not mother nature.What my dogs are, have been carefully chosen to create a dog that is not much different from your own, in looks and temprament, they are similar, only mine have some new blood in them.I think people have to think about the bloodlines in these breeds and realise that they are not large and they are very small. That could create more problems then good.
What you don´t seem to realize is that crossng isn´t a benefit in itself. If it is necessary - and as a vet I don´t think so at that point - it should be carefully done. It is no problem as long as you cross them with labradors and poodles, you will always see this is no CSW, but it is a problem when it is done irresponsible. We have the problem now that there are dogs coming into breeding that are not purebred, that nobody knows anything about, that may include breeds with severe heriditary problems or that might be wolfcrosses, what normally causes enough problems in itself. The persons crossing them are definetly no honest, responsible persons. If the breeder of your dog is the one I think I wouldn´t believe one word he is saying, insulting everybody who didn´t share his opinion following strange ideas theat definetly weren´t of any interest but his own.
Therefore I am no friend of crosses, at this point we don´t need them, they are not controlled, they are just result of breeding of persons I don´t trust one second. People like that can ruin a breed or severly harm it.

Ina
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Old 09-10-2008, 23:14   #46
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Yes unserius CsV breeders that mix in udder breeds or wolf and say it is a CsV are the bigest problem I think.

In Sweden no CsV will get the pedigree whitout DNA test that proves ho the parents are, this to not get new wolfbood in the Swedish population.

Maby this DNA test would bee good in all CsV contrys ?

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Old 10-10-2008, 01:48   #47
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Originally Posted by taloowa View Post
Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs.....thats were i started....... thats what i have a crossbred of.......its late and to confusing lol


How ever the breed here is not recognised
Hi,

sorry, you were talking of Czech wolves but not of Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs.

Michael
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:36   #48
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I agree that crossing with some breeds would be fatel to the czech, however if carefully done, and carefully chosen, it could be succesful,
the temprment of the dog, and the gentics of the chosen dog, has to be carefully considered, .
how do you carefully consider the genetics of a northern Inuit when the dogs used in the original brreedings are unknown?
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Old 10-10-2008, 07:01   #49
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Hello cpw. How do you think, csw in start of breeding are unknown? We know all german sheepdogs and all wolves used in breeding of csw.
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Old 10-10-2008, 07:43   #50
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Originally Posted by Angelika View Post
I´ve read in this forum that lynx legend was born in August 2001, had a litter (with brix de louba tar) in December 2003 and died in January 2004.

If these informations are true it seems you own at least one pure CsW!!??

Hi there

I own a daughter of Lynx Legend, and she was created by mixing with a Northern Inuit. so she is half csv.

Bye
Taloowa
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Old 10-10-2008, 07:50   #51
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how do you carefully consider the genetics of a northern Inuit when the dogs used in the original brreedings are unknown?

that depends on where u have your info from and paper work from, believe me this is a discussion that is currently takeing place on my normal forum about the NI and all the paper work of them is currently being printed on our forum, however, having and knowing the orginal breeder from the UK that started this and I am not talking about Julie Kelham, I am talking before her, and having a health line with no faults, there is no harm in adding the new blood if the bloodline is clean from faults, and the dog used is very sweet natured.

With any cross you need to make sure that both lines are clear from faults, and I am sure there are plenty of breeders that get it wrong, even in your countries.

I have seen enough hybrids to know they are soft and sweet thats for sure, knowing my kids can walk througha field of 20 of them at the age of 3 tells u they are sweet natured.
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Old 10-10-2008, 07:59   #52
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Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post
What you don´t seem to realize is that crossng isn´t a benefit in itself. If it is necessary - and as a vet I don´t think so at that point - it should be carefully done. It is no problem as long as you cross them with labradors and poodles, you will always see this is no CSW, but it is a problem when it is done irresponsible. We have the problem now that there are dogs coming into breeding that are not purebred, that nobody knows anything about, that may include breeds with severe heriditary problems or that might be wolfcrosses, what normally causes enough problems in itself. The persons crossing them are definetly no honest, responsible persons. If the breeder of your dog is the one I think I wouldn´t believe one word he is saying, insulting everybody who didn´t share his opinion following strange ideas theat definetly weren´t of any interest but his own.
Therefore I am no friend of crosses, at this point we don´t need them, they are not controlled, they are just result of breeding of persons I don´t trust one second. People like that can ruin a breed or severly harm it.

Ina

May I ask who my breeder is? And why he/she is such a problem, its a bit of a insult to say something like taht.

You are intitled to your opinion but I have to say I dont share it with you, I think you are very, closed minded, and there fore do not understand nature at all.

Mother nature is always crossing things, with out u, and yes i agree there are a lot of idiots out there.

However you as a person who owns a dog that has small bloodlines also have to think about increasing the blood line in them. You know as well as I do that you will get gentic faults in them, at some point. becuase new blood is not introduce, we are seeing it here in England alot, even with the GSD or the Labrador or with the NI, or the King Charles Spainel, they all have limited lines, and they are now all very ill.

People are now having to think how to get out of this and its down to us to help the breeds before they get to that stage, and that is what is happening.
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Old 10-10-2008, 08:06   #53
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Hello cpw. How do you think, csw in start of breeding are unknown? We know all german sheepdogs and all wolves used in breeding of csw.
Hi
It is also the same breeding for the sarloos too, only and timber wolf rather then a european wolf, This was in the 1960's slightly later then the csv.
And since then no wolf has been introdiced to either breed, as far as i am aware. please correct me if i am wrong onthe
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Old 10-10-2008, 08:10   #54
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Hi there

Again, feel like i have not stop talking so far

Here in the UK there is no one to stop you from crossing what u like. we have the kennel club, who u can register the dogs with how ever they dont except sarloos or csv.

I assume there are people in Europe that stop you from doing this?

Again you are lucky as your breeders are registered which does help
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Old 10-10-2008, 09:28   #55
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Here in the UK there is no one to stop you from crossing what u like. we have the kennel club, who u can register the dogs with how ever they dont except sarloos or csv.

I assume there are people in Europe that stop you from doing this?
This is mainly the issue of ethics and personal moral standards .

It took many years of hard work, tough decisions, deaths of animals, etc. to create a new breed - the CSV, that would have particular appearance and features. If you bothered to read the history of the breed you might realise that at the military kennel hundreds of dogs were eliminated [*] in the process of selection. It involved a lot of suffering of animals and people.

If people like the breeder of your dogs lightly destroys (for money?) the efforts of many people, don't be surprised that he is considered a barbarian by people who care about the breed. And this has nothing to do with snobbery or "elite club". Just common sense and respect for hard work of people who devoted their lives to the development of the breed.

Still it seems to me from reading this forum that in Britain more
people than anywhere else have problems with understanding this simple truth....
I'm sorry to say that, but it looks like plain arrogance
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:23   #56
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Hi there

Again, feel like i have not stop talking so far

Here in the UK there is no one to stop you from crossing what u like. we have the kennel club, who u can register the dogs with how ever they dont except sarloos or csv.

And i think 'breeders' crossing SWD and TWD with other dogs, is not helping the procces of getting the breeds acknowledged

I am very much opposed to cross breeding the way it is so often done, a selfacclaimed specialist does it, claiming to know best and safe the breed this way... If so despretely needed, why not do it with the backing of the official institutes??

mentioned earlier in this discussion was a probable TwD # SWD crossing and the offspring having official pedigrees... The writer mentioned that that might be good for the SWD but TWD might not want these crosses.. well let me tell you, i picked the SWD because of temperament, character etc, its breeds specifics. A TWD might seem similair in appaerance at first glance, but no more that that... so i as a SWD owner also pass for the crosses, and do not believe these bring health benifits, cause like the SWD, the TWD has also some 'flaws' in health.
I love the TWD as a breed, see it as a breed where there is also still work to be done, and neither the SWD or TWD imho benefit from wild crosses at the moment. There might come a time when outcross may be needed, but hopefully than that can be done with care, cooperation from several breed clubs ect!
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:22   #57
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Hello cpw. How do you think, csw in start of breeding are unknown? We know all german sheepdogs and all wolves used in breeding of csw.
It is the Inuit, along with the Utonagen and Tamaskan that are unknown and or kept secret. As you say, The pedigrees of all Csw can be traced all the way back to the founders of the breed.
charles
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Old 10-10-2008, 12:46   #58
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Well I have never heard so much crap in all my life, for life to exisit you have to have mother nature or people, and in mother nature she crosses every animal to create a animal.

I cannot believe that people on here are so narrow minded, I came here to chat to people and have a nice converstation with people who care, all i see is narrowmind, people, who realy have nothing better to do than slate someone for the type of dog they have, wether it be 100% or 75% etc, you all really need to grow up a little, and start looking around you.....

I dont care for you or your gentics I care about how my family feel about the dogs, and what a change they have made to my life, i come to these forums to learn new things about them and to learn how i can give them a better life, it is obvious here the fast majority of people are not worth talking to.

For those of you that have emailed me I am quite happy to continue talking to you.

But the rest of you who claim u know what u are doing you have no clue at all... you are as bad as the rest of us.

People come to these sites to learn about the breed and chat to owners, in a friendly manner, not get penalised for the dogs they own...

You Should try being friends and maybe just maybe people will want to be friends and help the breed, and maybe even keep the breed as it is.
But u will never know, as your attitudes really need changing, you cant stop breeders from, doing things, and until u accept that you will never help your breed or any other breed for that matter
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Old 10-10-2008, 13:39   #59
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Hi there

I own a daughter of Lynx Legend, and she was created by mixing with a Northern Inuit. so she is half csv.

Bye
Taloowa

Hi Taloowa,

thanks for your answers. - I absolutely agree with Ina. If you read the posts of the owner of Lynx Legend you´ll see he really insulted everybody who did not share his opinion. I myself got some ugly pm.

Coming back to Lynx Legend: most of female CsW are on heat first with 20-24 months. Lynx Legend had had her CsW-litter with 28 months.

Sorry, I don´t want to be impolite but - if the informations about her are true - she could not have had a litter with a Northern Inuit because she unfortunately died being 29 months old.

cheers
Angelika
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Old 10-10-2008, 14:49   #60
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mmmm interesting, as she is still alive and about 6 years old, living in Devon.....

loupy lou is still alive and breathing......

in actual fact i spent a weekend with her about 6 weeks ago....

bye
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