CSV statistic

elf · 30-09-2009, 12:06

Hi Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs lovers worldwide !

The CSV statistic tool is online, this can be viewed as a "statistic plugin" for the great wolfdog.org.

The description page is here: http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...m/csvstat.html (direct to the tool: http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...gi-bin/form.py)

Unfortunately I no longer have time for forums, for contact info please refer to the contact information on the description page.

Hope this will help people, long and healthy live to all your dogs !

Cheers

Anthony

PS: please can the moderator translate ?

elf · 11-10-2009, 20:11

Hi all, thanks for support !

Feel free to take a look from time to time to the description page as I add features (hopefully) periodically. Last important adds about the coefficient of inbreeding calculation:

"- Note: you can see two different parts for the Coefficient of inbreeding calculation, the first uses the formula: Sum (1/2)^n1+n2+1 (formula used by wolfdog.org) which suppose common ancestors have a COI=0% (which is not true most of the cases => the coefficient is under estimated) ; the second uses the complete formula: Sum (1/2)^n1+n2+1 * (1+Fa), this one takes in account the COI of common ancestors (better, but still a bit under estimated: Fa obtained from 8 generations with 3 converging passes. However, the result is now acceptably accurate.)."

One exemple of changes:

Hathor Crying Wolf: Wright's coefficent on 5 generations: 19.43359375%, becomes with complete formula: 26.2852315791%

As you can see the difference between results can be huge, so I encourage breeders to use the complete formula.

(BTW: Saarloos lovers, I added same statistic engine site for the Saarloos breed (link on the description page)... interesting to compare the formation of these two breeds).

Cheers

leila · 12-10-2009, 10:32

tak sa pokúsim v skratke aspoň preložiť, i keď myslím, že asi všetci vedia o čo ide.

bol vytvorený štatistický program pre čsv (v nasledujúcom príspevku sa píše, že boli pridaní aj saarloos vlčiaci - skôr pre zaujímavosť).

na uvedenom linku si vložíte meno psa a dostanete jeho ID, toto vkladáte do okienok a vyhodí vám rôzne štatistiky a údaje.

ďalej sa píše o dvoch rôznych spôsoboch výpočtu wrightovho koeficientu, ktorý je na stránke k dispozícii, jeden, čo používa aj wolfdog a druhý všeobecný a sú možné aj veľké rozdiely, ako je uvedené na príklade psa Hathor Crying wolf. preto odporúča viac používať všeobecný vzorec, ktorý je presnejší.

------------------
myslím, že je to zaujímavá stránka, resp. program, dá sa tam veľa toho zistiť, podiel vlčej krvi toho ktorého vlka u daného jedinca a dajú sa vyfiltrovať napr. psy podľa DBK výsledkov a podobne.

Petra

buppi · 17-10-2009, 14:45

nema este psika zatial len zhanam informacie pocul som ze tieto psi su plache a ze ztekaju je to pravda

Mackie · 19-10-2009, 13:39

to akoby si sa spytal, ci ludia maju vlasy a obliekaju si tricka
a ani temu si netrafil
vela stastia pri studiu plemena, potom sa skus vratit a spytat sa nieco k veci

elf · 21-10-2009, 20:58

I added for "Find dogs born in year:" the mean COI (on 5 and 8 generations) for the chosen year. This gives since 1990:

Mean COI on 8 generations:

Mean COI on 5 generations:

So if the former rule was to try to be less than 10% on 5 generations, let's roll the new rule, less than 5% on 5 generations.

saschia · 22-10-2009, 10:24

COI predpokladam ze je Coefficient of inbreeding, cize v laickom preklade miera pribuzenskej plemenitby. Pekne ze je mozne sledovat trendy v case. Pokial viem, Elf vytvoril (alebo pracuje) na moznosti vyhladavania aj podla krajiny, takze by sa teoreticky dalo sledovat rozne tendy v roznych krajinach.

elf · 22-10-2009, 13:24

Thanks for traduction Saschia.

Added also average AVK (in "Find dogs born in year:" and "Find breeder"). This gives since 1990:

Average AVK on 8 generations:

Average AVK on 5 generations:

saschia · 22-10-2009, 13:55

Takze dalsie info pre tych co by sa pobavkali so statistikou - pridane filtre na krajinu vo vyhladavani psov a pridany vypocet priemerneho AVK = Ancestor Loss Coefficient - co znamena ake percento moznych predkov v skutocnosti existuje - v idealnom pripade je to 100%, ale ak niektory z predkov figuruje na viacerych poziciach rodostromu tak sa koeficient znizuje.

Hanka · 23-10-2009, 06:57

Ahoj, ty grafíky jsou velmi zajímavé. Mě by velmi zajímal ten graf podle krajin, ale nevím jak na to. Ty ano?

saschia · 23-10-2009, 10:11

Musis si v tej polozke Dogs born in year vybrat rok a krajinu a potom v hornej casti tabulky su priemerne hodnoty COI a AVK. Alternativa je vybrat vsetky krajiny, exportovat si to do excelu alebo databazy a potom si to sortovat a spracovavat offline.

elf · 01-02-2010, 14:46

CSV size repartition (%pop / cm):

Female

Male

saschia · 01-02-2010, 15:37

Preklad prispevku od elf:

grafy zobrazuju rozdelenie danych vysok v populacii CSV (pre znalych statistiky histogram distribucie). Horny graf suky, dolny graf psy.

Monika · 02-02-2010, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by saschia

Preklad prispevku od elf:

grafy zobrazuju rozdelenie danych vysok v populacii CSV (pre znalych statistiky histogram distribucie). Horny graf suky, dolny graf psy.

Zajímavé by určitě bylo, kdyby " elf " zpracoval kohoutkovou výšku psů a fen narozených v určitém období až po současnost....generace po generaci.
Takhle to je celkem " nic neříkající " ale i snaha se cení

Monika

saschia · 02-02-2010, 11:02

Monika, dam elfovi vediet o zaujme o takyto graf, ale upozornujem ze v principe pri troche snahy to dokaze kazdy, databaza je volne dostupna, jedine co treba je poprenasat v nej vytvorene statisticke data do tabuliek a potom graficky zobrazit.
Este drobna otazka - co myslite generaciu po generacii? Statistiky vzdy sa nejakych 4-6 rokov spolu?

Mackie · 02-02-2010, 11:05

toto presne napadlo aj mna - zachytit vyvoj pocas rokov a sucasny trend, ci a ako vazne ide ta vyska dole (pripadne hore)

elf · 02-02-2010, 11:36

What should be most interesting ? Possible slices (one fixed boundary, or not):

- 2010->2005, 2010->2000, 2010->1995 etc...

or

- 1975->1980, 1975->1985, 1975->1990 etc...

or

- 1975->1980, 1980->1985, 1985->1990 ...

What are your thoughts ?

saschia · 02-02-2010, 15:52

I think no fixed boundaries - just to see the differences among following half-decades. Or, always 5-year groups but with the first and last year overlapping with previous/next groups.

Monika · 02-02-2010, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by elf

What should be most interesting ? Possible slices (one fixed boundary, or not):

- 2010->2005, 2010->2000, 2010->1995 etc...

or

- 1975->1980, 1975->1985, 1975->1990 etc...

or

- 1975->1980, 1980->1985, 1985->1990 ...

What are your thoughts ?

I wonder also, with how large statistical ensemble you are working? Interesting would be divide even by country of birth......exist many possibilities, I know.
I wonder the last option 1975 - 1980, 1980 - 1985, 1985 -1990, 1990 -1995 ...etc
Thanks for interest and time.

Monika

elf · 03-02-2010, 00:19

Here we go for more interesting

Here are the slice I choose, I choose those ones because they are about equivalent in number of dogs (300-450). [The whole statistical ensemble is the 2200-2300 bonitated dogs entered in WD.]

Slices: 1970->1990 ; 1990->1995 ; 1995->2000 ; 2000->2003 ; 2003->2006 ; 2006->2010

Female 1970->1990

Female 1990->1995

Female 1995->2000

Female 2000->2003

Female 2003->2006

Female 2006->2010

Female 1970->2010 (sum up)

Male 1970->1990

Male 1990->1995

Male 1995->2000

Male 2000->2003

Male 2003->2006

Male 2006->2010

Male 1970->2010 (sum up)

30-09-2009, 12:06	#1
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	CSV statistic Hi Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs lovers worldwide ! The CSV statistic tool is online, this can be viewed as a "statistic plugin" for the great wolfdog.org. The description page is here: http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...m/csvstat.html (direct to the tool: http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...gi-bin/form.py) Unfortunately I no longer have time for forums, for contact info please refer to the contact information on the description page. Hope this will help people, long and healthy live to all your dogs ! Cheers Anthony PS: please can the moderator translate ?

12-10-2009, 10:32	#3
leila http://www.tobrok.sk Join Date: May 2006 Location: Nitra - Mojmírovce, Slovakia Posts: 550	tak sa pokúsim v skratke aspoň preložiť, i keď myslím, že asi všetci vedia o čo ide. bol vytvorený štatistický program pre čsv (v nasledujúcom príspevku sa píše, že boli pridaní aj saarloos vlčiaci - skôr pre zaujímavosť). na uvedenom linku si vložíte meno psa a dostanete jeho ID, toto vkladáte do okienok a vyhodí vám rôzne štatistiky a údaje. ďalej sa píše o dvoch rôznych spôsoboch výpočtu wrightovho koeficientu, ktorý je na stránke k dispozícii, jeden, čo používa aj wolfdog a druhý všeobecný a sú možné aj veľké rozdiely, ako je uvedené na príklade psa Hathor Crying wolf. preto odporúča viac používať všeobecný vzorec, ktorý je presnejší. ------------------ myslím, že je to zaujímavá stránka, resp. program, dá sa tam veľa toho zistiť, podiel vlčej krvi toho ktorého vlka u daného jedinca a dajú sa vyfiltrovať napr. psy podľa DBK výsledkov a podobne. Petra __________________ www.tobrok.sk

21-10-2009, 20:58	#6
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	I added for "Find dogs born in year:" the mean COI (on 5 and 8 generations) for the chosen year. This gives since 1990: Mean COI on 8 generations: Mean COI on 5 generations: So if the former rule was to try to be less than 10% on 5 generations, let's roll the new rule, less than 5% on 5 generations. __________________ http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...m/csvstat.html

22-10-2009, 10:24	#7
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	COI predpokladam ze je Coefficient of inbreeding, cize v laickom preklade miera pribuzenskej plemenitby. Pekne ze je mozne sledovat trendy v case. Pokial viem, Elf vytvoril (alebo pracuje) na moznosti vyhladavania aj podla krajiny, takze by sa teoreticky dalo sledovat rozne tendy v roznych krajinach. __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

22-10-2009, 13:24	#8
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	Thanks for traduction Saschia. Added also average AVK (in "Find dogs born in year:" and "Find breeder"). This gives since 1990: Average AVK on 8 generations: Average AVK on 5 generations: __________________ http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...m/csvstat.html

11-10-2009, 20:11	#2
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	Hi all, thanks for support ! Feel free to take a look from time to time to the description page as I add features (hopefully) periodically. Last important adds about the coefficient of inbreeding calculation: "- Note: you can see two different parts for the Coefficient of inbreeding calculation, the first uses the formula: Sum (1/2)^n1+n2+1 (formula used by wolfdog.org) which suppose common ancestors have a COI=0% (which is not true most of the cases => the coefficient is under estimated) ; the second uses the complete formula: Sum (1/2)^n1+n2+1 * (1+Fa), this one takes in account the COI of common ancestors (better, but still a bit under estimated: Fa obtained from 8 generations with 3 converging passes. However, the result is now acceptably accurate.)." One exemple of changes: Hathor Crying Wolf: Wright's coefficent on 5 generations: 19.43359375%, becomes with complete formula: 26.2852315791% As you can see the difference between results can be huge, so I encourage breeders to use the complete formula. (BTW: Saarloos lovers, I added same statistic engine site for the Saarloos breed (link on the description page)... interesting to compare the formation of these two breeds). Cheers

17-10-2009, 14:45	#4
buppi Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1	nema este psika zatial len zhanam informacie pocul som ze tieto psi su plache a ze ztekaju je to pravda

19-10-2009, 13:39	#5
Mackie Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Slovakia/Presov Posts: 112	to akoby si sa spytal, ci ludia maju vlasy a obliekaju si tricka a ani temu si netrafil vela stastia pri studiu plemena, potom sa skus vratit a spytat sa nieco k veci

22-10-2009, 13:55	#9
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	Takze dalsie info pre tych co by sa pobavkali so statistikou - pridane filtre na krajinu vo vyhladavani psov a pridany vypocet priemerneho AVK = Ancestor Loss Coefficient - co znamena ake percento moznych predkov v skutocnosti existuje - v idealnom pripade je to 100%, ale ak niektory z predkov figuruje na viacerych poziciach rodostromu tak sa koeficient znizuje. __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

23-10-2009, 06:57	#10
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	Ahoj, ty grafíky jsou velmi zajímavé. Mě by velmi zajímal ten graf podle krajin, ale nevím jak na to. Ty ano?

23-10-2009, 10:11	#11
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	Musis si v tej polozke Dogs born in year vybrat rok a krajinu a potom v hornej casti tabulky su priemerne hodnoty COI a AVK. Alternativa je vybrat vsetky krajiny, exportovat si to do excelu alebo databazy a potom si to sortovat a spracovavat offline. __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

01-02-2010, 14:46	#12
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	CSV size repartition (%pop / cm): Female Male __________________ http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...m/csvstat.html

01-02-2010, 15:37	#13
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	Preklad prispevku od elf: grafy zobrazuju rozdelenie danych vysok v populacii CSV (pre znalych statistiky histogram distribucie). Horny graf suky, dolny graf psy. __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

02-02-2010, 11:02	#15
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	Monika, dam elfovi vediet o zaujme o takyto graf, ale upozornujem ze v principe pri troche snahy to dokaze kazdy, databaza je volne dostupna, jedine co treba je poprenasat v nej vytvorene statisticke data do tabuliek a potom graficky zobrazit. Este drobna otazka - co myslite generaciu po generacii? Statistiky vzdy sa nejakych 4-6 rokov spolu? __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

02-02-2010, 11:05	#16
Mackie Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Slovakia/Presov Posts: 112	toto presne napadlo aj mna - zachytit vyvoj pocas rokov a sucasny trend, ci a ako vazne ide ta vyska dole (pripadne hore)

02-02-2010, 11:36	#17
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	What should be most interesting ? Possible slices (one fixed boundary, or not): - 2010->2005, 2010->2000, 2010->1995 etc... or - 1975->1980, 1975->1985, 1975->1990 etc... or - 1975->1980, 1980->1985, 1985->1990 ... What are your thoughts ? __________________ http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...m/csvstat.html

02-02-2010, 15:52	#18
saschia Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bratislava Posts: 936	I think no fixed boundaries - just to see the differences among following half-decades. Or, always 5-year groups but with the first and last year overlapping with previous/next groups. __________________ Saschia (Sasa Zahradnikova) http://www.chiens-loup-tchecoslovaqu...ei-et-damon.ws

03-02-2010, 00:19	#20
elf Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 766	Here we go for more interesting Here are the slice I choose, I choose those ones because they are about equivalent in number of dogs (300-450). [The whole statistical ensemble is the 2200-2300 bonitated dogs entered in WD.] Slices: 1970->1990 ; 1990->1995 ; 1995->2000 ; 2000->2003 ; 2003->2006 ; 2006->2010 Female 1970->1990 Female 1990->1995 Female 1995->2000 Female 2000->2003 Female 2003->2006 Female 2006->2010 Female 1970->2010 (sum up) Male 1970->1990 Male 1990->1995 Male 1995->2000 Male 2000->2003 Male 2003->2006 Male 2006->2010 Male 1970->2010 (sum up) __________________ http://www.amicale-chien-loup-tcheco...m/csvstat.html