ED - new rules

[admin]

We received new rules about the ellbow dysplasia. After the club conference in Czech Republic in June the club decided that ONLY the ED-free dogs can be used for breeding. So from now all dogs with result worser than ED 0-0 will be no more listed on the stud dog list.

In Czech Republic all dogs after 1. 1. 2011 must have the HD and ED results. We will move it a little bit - owners of stud dogs have time till 01.06.2011 to make also the ED-results (in the case where it is missing). After this date ALL dogs with missing ED-results will be removed from the stud dog list.

[Mikael]

After the club conference in Czech Republic in June the club decided that ONLY the ED-free dogs can be used for breeding

Yesssssssss

/ Mikael

[wolfin]

GREAT but one !!!. in all normal club when make new regulation are this type text :"dogs who born later XXX date mas have this and this." older dog stay in this same breeding rules. Or dogs who are older like 5-7 years not have X-ray younger mas have.

[jmvdwiel]

are there going to be other rules for the stud dog list from other countries? I think it is a good thing that all stud dogs should be ED free, but Is it the same for the females?
In Holland the only thing that you need is HD result that are good enough, but no thing about ED (at this moment), are the males going to be removed from the stud dogs list from holland also without the ed results?

[Nebulosa]

I think yes, but better ask
Will it also affect the "planned litter" announcement rules?

[Hanka]

It is not right information. I proposed to start ED researching for all breeding dogs from 1.1.2011. All people voted for my proposal. Thanks God. My second proposal was . From 1.1.2011 will be in breeding only dogs with ED "A". But in this moment people voted against me. So result is: in years 2011 and 2012 will club watch ED results of all dogs and it will watch health situation in czech population. (All ED results will be publiced). After these two years will club propose health provisions. So I will try it on next club conferention once again and I will want the same: only ED A dogs will go to breeding.

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by Hanka

It is not right information. I proposed to start ED researching for all breeding dogs from 1.1.2011. All people voted for my proposal. Thanks God. My second proposal was . From 1.1.2011 will be in breeding only dogs with ED "A". But in this moment people voted against me. So result is: in years 2011 and 2012 will club watch ED results of all dogs and it will watch health situation in czech population. (All ED results will be publiced). After these two years will club propose health provisions. So I will try it on next club conferention once again and I will want the same: only ED A dogs will go to breeding.

Hanka ED 0 not ED A

[admin]

About this topic - it will spoke about it with the moderators to prepare the best possible rules which will not offend anybody but at the same time will help us to fight with this illness before it is too late...

[jasmine]

soooo there are some contradiction:
Admin wrote "After the club conference in Czech Republic in June the club decided that ONLY the ED-free dogs can be used for breeding."
Hanka wrote:"1.1.2011 will be in breeding only dogs with ED "A". But in this moment people voted against me. So result is: in years 2011 and 2012 will club watch ED results of all dogs and it will watch health situation in czech population. "

These two comments are not the same ! As I understand Hanka 's words right, the Ed result is still not obligated in Czeh Rep. for the breeding.


Edit

[jefta]

As I understand Hanka's words only ED x-rayted dogs can be used for breeding but all results are acceptable

[jasmine]

I think no, read the sentences : Hanka's vote was this: :"1.1.2011 will be in breeding only dogs with ED "A".
Klub reaction was this : "But in this moment people voted against me"
So , if I understand right, Hanka wanted that just the Ed free dogs can be used for breeding, but she hasn't got the subsidy from the klub.


Edit

[Nebulosa]

If she talked ED: A Maybe they mistaken with HD, very different things.
ED is classified by numbers, so ED: 0-0 only.
But I hope people will not use this as excuse for not do the ED results or breed with ill dogs.
By the way, I agree with the club about first know the actual breed situation before make a rigorous selection.
If it is really spreaded, so they will need to plan about the usage of affected dogs with still acceptable results ( ED 1-1), like is done with Rottweilers or Labradors, well, if it happen at this point I think it will be a pretty sad scenario.

[Hanka]

Of course ED 0-0. Numbers
After 1.1.2011 must have all breeding dogs in Czech ED result.
But this result can be 0 or 1 or 2..........
Two years later I will try it once again (on club conferention), only ED 0-0 dogs can be used for breeding.
I know in what families is ED problem, so I am worry two years later can be this problem in population bigger. I hope not so much.

[Gypsy Wolf]

Though I think the decision is, in theory, an honorable one, hip dysplasia is a MULTI-FACTORIAL "illness" not simply genetic!
A dog that has excellent genetics could be raised with poor nutrition or in a poor environment (such as growing up in a small concrete kennel), or suffer a traumatic injury and develop disease symptoms. And then we are arbitrarily removing those genetics - that may be GOOD, and at the very least, maintain a diverse gene pool in a breed that already has a small gene pool!
We are likely "breeding ourselves into a corner" with such a decision.
I do not think we have enough information on the myriad genetics as well as outside influences that cause joint problems to remove so many dogs from our gene pool...
Truly, I would prefer that geneticists and veterinarians consult on such a decision... even speaking with Dr. Clemmons, here in FL, regarding the Degenerative Myelopathy test (which they developed), you do not necessarily want to remove the "Abnormal/Abnormal" dogs from your breeding program, if they have other traits that SHOULD be kept in the breed. "You don't want to throw away the baby with the bathwater" is what he told me. The test is there to make EDUCATED breeding decisions, that, in theory, can preserve the GOOD genetics and remove the bad ones through knowledge and selection.
I foresee us bottlenecking genetically and losing some really good traits if we concentrate on just joint issues... great idea to have good hips, but are we sacrificing type and more importantly, temperament and working ability?
I am certainly not promoting breeding dogs with bad hips as a regular thing, but think about this - you produce a pup that is genetically sound, joint-wise for generations, but he is injured as an adolescent... he has super working drive, solid character, perfect conformation - floating gait, you name it - your perfect pup... you x-ray him at 18 months, and that left hip is considered dysplastic from that injury he sustained as a youngster... what would you do? Or perhaps he was a pup that you sold and was returned back to you and is just AMAZING... but he was reared in a crate eating crap, so you x-ray him... get my drift?
Do we really have enough great vlcaks in the world to do that?

[Nebulosa]

We're talking about elbows displasy, not the hips ones, they're completly different things and for what we could already see, this illness is in pretty different situation at the breed.
So far looks like we have an already considerable ammount of dogs tested coming from the most different lines, and most of these animals were free.

[Ricky's Wolf]

Originally Posted by Admin

After this date ALL dogs with missing ED-results will be removed from the stud dog list.

if you are removed, from the stud list, dogs with problems ED very little (ED 0-1) not becomes important to wait for the date 01.06.2011 to remove the dogs without the results of ED.
Dogs without results ED, for this new law, have no reason to be on the stud list.

I think that not harm using a dog with a little problem ED 0-1.
You can also use dogs with hip dysplasia grade B and C (certainly they should be used with much caution and intelligence).
Even though sometimes things are different this is a decision that makes me remain puzzled.
This summer, when I go in the Czech Republic, I inform good.
Regards

[elf]

Interesting correlation between HD and ED:

Risk of simultaneous phenotypic expression of hip and elbow dysplasia in dogs: a study of 1,411 radiographic examinations sent for official scoring. [dec. 2009]

Cachon T, Genevois JP, Remy D, Carozzo C, Viguier E, Maitre P, Arnault F, Fau D.

Ecole Nationale Veterinaire de Lyon, Surgery, Small Animal Department, Marcy L'Etoile, France.

Abstract

In order to look for phenotypic correlation between hip (HD) and elbow (ED) dysplasia, we used radiographic scoring obtained from 1,411 dogs of different breeds, which were evaluated for authoritative grading of both conditions. In this population, we found that the risk ratio for an animal to be simultaneously affected by HD and ED is 1.67. For a dog with ED, the risk ratio to be affected by HD increases as the ED grade increases. Similarly, for a dog affected by HD, the risk ratio to be affected by ED increases as the HD grade increases. In a dog affected by HD or ED, the clinician should look for the second condition in the same animal. Due to the low, yet positive correlation, selection against one trait will not affect the other trait sufficiently. Therefore selection has to be conducted at reduction of HD as well as reduction of ED.