CzW ownership in UK

Per Olav · 18-10-2002, 17:40

Hi.
As far as I know England is the only European country prohibiting CSV import.
I should like to know why and if any other countries also prohibit such import.

---
Per Olav

wolfeywolf · 18-10-2002, 17:55

if they are prohibiting, then why is their one already here? i'm in the uk
and really would love a CzW or SW but i have been told that it is the
breeders that don't want them here. if anyone knows of any breeders who are
willing. please, please could you let me know?
laura

Per Olav · 18-10-2002, 19:18

Thank you, Laura.

Some time ago someone on this list wrote that the CSV was not allowed
imported to England due to English import regulations.
I should like to have more exact information, please.

Let me rewrite my posting :-)

In Norway the following breeds are banned due to their reputation as
"fighting dogs":
Fila Brasileiro, Tora Inu, Dogo Argentino and Pit Bull Terrier.
These breeds are also banned in several other countries.

As far as I know any country has accepted the CSV as a legal breed and
every kennel club, except the Swedish one, has recognized the breed
according to FCI approval.

I should like to know of any country where the CSV is not allowed or banned
and the reason why this is so.

Per Olav

Karin · 20-10-2002, 10:15

Hallo Laura,
I don't know how many breeders you've asked for a puppy, but probably not
the right ones. I also don't know where you live.
I'am from Czech Republic. Here are some breeders who would sell you for
£1900 maybe their wife or husband.:-))
But you can find here some breeders who are choosing the future owner of
their puppy. What is not good for Csw for sure
is to let the dog almost all the time with pack. They need to bild up a
relation with you individually. And they need gite enough
of owners time If they should be well-bred. You can have your dog in his own
room but It is not good to let the dog closed too long.
I have my Brenna in our flat. I have no problems to let her there alone for
five or six hours per day when I need it. But problem starts when there is
not just one dog.They are very inventive. You should really meet more dogs
and their owners. I think nature of Csw depends from
big part on the owner and life conditions prepared for this dog. Even If the
dog seems to be shy already as a puppy you can still more or less change
this.
I have never met any Csw which would be agressive to people. This doesen't
mean that they don't exist but It's evidence of
rare occurrence of agressivity. You can do from Csw very shy dog which is
afraid of everything or agressive killer of animals,
agressive to people or obedient good socialized dog who likes people and
other dogs(little problem is among males which are dominant,
but this can be also reduced). These dogs are a little bit special. They
have some natural features of behaving. It's really good to read,
ask abot everything in what you are not sure, and meet many owners and
breeders of Csw. And even if you do this when you would
have a puppy of Csw you find out that you still don't know what to do in
many situations.

Karin

z Peronówki · 11-09-2003, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caly

I know a CsW has appeared at Crufts dog show in London and I am also aware that one is to appear at the Discover Dogs show, also in London this November.

Yes - it was the first CzW in UK.

The name of this dog is Lynx Legend van Rijneckerhof.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caly

I have contacted the British Kennel Club and all they could tell me is that they do not recognise them as an official breed.

Yes, that's right. So far I know first breed fans have to import some Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs to UK and start breeding this breed in this country. After this they can try to register it. I think it will be not a huge problem because CzW is already recognized by FCI and it is also not so hard to import breeding material from EU-coutries (without quarantine).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caly

Are we allowed to keep these dogs in England or are they restricted by our Dangerous Animals Act that we have in this country.

Hmmm....it's good question for the people from UK (they are already here so meybe they will write some words about it). But I don't think there will e a problem with Dangerous Animals Act because CzW is a dog like other dog breeds...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caly

I would dearly love to become the proud owner of a Csw, so can somebody help me with information please.

Please take a look on this topic - we already spoke about it:
"Import to UK"

Greeetings,
Margo

Beowulf · 11-09-2003, 21:31

Thanks very much for your reply Margo, I have just found some information on the website of our Dept of Enviroment. It states that "those breeds claiming a wolf content, however diluted must still be licensed under the dangerous wild animal act. It actually mentions the CsW and the Saarloos.

Apparently the local councils in this country that deal with such licenses charge anywhere from 100 to 1000 pounds for them.

So my next step is to find out how much my local council will charge.

Caly.

Margo · 28-10-2003, 20:24

We just added information about first planned CzW litter in UK. Just take a look on this:
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/dbase/o1066.html

mijke · 03-11-2003, 00:59

Quote:

We just added information about first planned CzW litter in UK.

But I don't know where this litter will be born; because on the website of this breeder you can read that he lives now in France

Margo · 05-11-2003, 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by mijke

But I don't know where this litter will be born; because on the website of this breeder you can read that he lives now in France

The breeder wrote me additional information about this litter:
"HOPEFULLY FIRST LITTER TO BE BORN IN U.K"

solowolf · 10-12-2003, 10:24

hi & greetings to everyone on wolfdog.org sorry i have not added any comments on wolfdogs in uk but i have been in france living with, breeding & studying this breed from whelping of a bitch to rearing pups till they are young adults, i have read all the mails & it is very difficult for margo or any of the team to answer questions regarding importation to uk i know lots of you out there want czech wolfdogs i did & it took me 5 yrs to get one, my bitch & dog are on pet passports issued by the MINISTERY OR DEFRA as it is knowen, the kennel club will tell everyone all the details on how a breed can become reconised infact all the information is very easily obtained on there wed site, it also lists all banned breeds, the czech is not one of them, information on when this breed was reconised in its own country of origin & by the FCI are on WOLFDOG.ORG you will need all this information when asking the kennel club any questions, or they will say sorry its not a reconised breed in uk, i have done all the ground work over the past 6 yrs with the kennel club so in the not to distant future they will be if excepted a breed within the uk, i strongly advise that you learn all you can about this breed before attempting to obtain a puppy, many breeders in europe & beyond will gladly let you visit & see there dogs, highly recommened ,,,,, the first litter will be born next week in the uk, i did put hopefully first litter born in uk as i was waiting to see if my bitch was in whelp, these dogs can not be quarenteened it is out of the question i do not know any breeder that will do this, you have to ask the breeder to keep & rear your puppy till it is 10mths old only then can it get a passport, the breeder will rear & care for this puppy have all its vaccinations blood tests done it then gets vet health checked you then collect your dog, i was very lucky i got to live with & rear my own czech male, i hope this is of some help to you all for the saarloos fans in uk there are already 2 in the uk the male that went in september was checked by local council & defra vet NO LIENCE WAS REQUIRED merry christmas to all the wolfdog.org team & to all you wolfdog fans best regards paul & mandy uk

solowolf · 12-12-2003, 22:57

with the comments on a wolfdog to be at discover dogs unfortunatly this is not possible dogs are only eligable to go here if they are a reconised breed by the kennel club, but leave it with me i shall have a czechoslovakian wolfdog at discover dogs as soon as i possibly can after 6 years nothing will stop me now regards paul uk

mid'lifecry'sis · 18-01-2004, 23:12

Hello all! LOL

I am looking at the purchase of a Wolfdog; urrr I guess I wouldn't be here otherwise right!

I have found lots of UK legislation against bringing the dog into the country, a licence is required. I just can't find a Uk breeder - anyone know of one? I have written to a few European breeders today to gain an idea as to cost and how'd they help on import.

I am looking for a companion to my 4 month old Lurcher, the Wolfdog must be good with my two horses and sheep, along with two kids, 2 and 4 years old - oh and the cat - I hope that pup would grow up and get used to the livestock and I have heard good things about the dogs with kids and other family pets.

I fear that the Wolfdog is somewhat 'underground' here in the UK and as such is susceptible to interbreeding and dilution of the true breed - all at a cost and loss to the new owner.

Help and advice appreciated.

Cheers.

Mid, North Kent, Nr London, England.

michaelundinaeichhorn · 19-01-2004, 16:36

Hello Chris,
you can import dogs from members of the EU without quaranteen. The dog has to be vaccinated against rabies and has to have enough antibodies against rabies what is to be prooved with a blood test. That means: you vaccinate the puppies, what is absolute sensless before the 12th week and should be repeated if you have to be sure that ist is putting up enough antibodies about four weeks later (as far as I can remember it has to be 12 weeks when it´s vaccinated anyway for UK). Then you have to take a blood sample at least three month later (I´me not a 100%sure about the three month difference but I think that was the required period). The blood sample has to be tested by a specialised laboratory (there is a list for every country, the vet in the exporting country knows). If the antibodytiter is high enough you are allowed to import the dog to UK, it has to get a wormtreatment against a special sort of tapeworm and against ticks shortly before and you ar only allowed to use a few airports and ports for importing.
That means, you need a breeder that is willing to keep the dog till this age, that is socialising it properly in this period and that is willing to to the bloodtest for you. Of course that will make the price for the dog a lot higher than normal.
If your dog has been successfully tested once, you just have to revaccinate it regulary, but you don´t have to repeat the test (that is the rule for Sweden and should be for the UK too, because it is going to be the same for all EU countries , with those speciallities for the quarantee-countries).

Regards Ina

solowolf · 25-01-2004, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mid'lifecry'sis

Hello all! LOL

no hope for this one i do not recommend any to sell this joker a dog, p. winder

mid'lifecry'sis · 26-01-2004, 22:19

Quote:

no hope for this one i do not recommend any to sell this joker a dog, p. winder

As a father of two who has for 10 years managed livestock, horses and the alike, I can say that this so called breeder may have a reputation as a breeder with superb dogs, however it's the first time, and I'm getting to old for this adolescent horseplay, I have ever had to deal with an imbecile like this; a rude and thoughtless character who due to my lack of knowledge of the dog world (as if I cared about the politics) and because I simply wanted a pet and asked questions any normal person would ask, was verbally threatened and had to deal with email comment such as 'id rather eat from the gutter than sell you a puppy' arose which would be seen as gross misconduct in any other professional walk of life.

Until I saw this hopeless and over the top slander I was keen to stay quiet and thought that he might grow up and change his mind; indeed many of my dog friends wanted to have a quite word in his ear, but I bit my lip and apologised for asking simple questions, but I am disgusted with his quote above so much so that I write this to you all, he even lied and said that he wouldn't post this slander'. .

The kennel club in the UK has a code of ethics which Paul has broken. Treating perspective customers like shit is not part of the deal because I question the price or ask if I can take pictures of pups to validate them; yes I'm a complete novice at this - and yes a little common courtesy and assistance would have been great. I am so upset.

It may not effect him much but anything to stop him treating others like this is worth the hassle of contacting the UK club here and word or mouth is a fast fast thing - for instance; are you chaps from Tenham that were stopped from breeding Huskies - like you said it's a tight old world out there - is this true. Stop to think sir - your mails have been totally abusive, I never loose my temper - but you have pulled the plug - you put me down for no reason in such a horrific way - you absolutely shock me.

Thank fully given mails sent to my PM I can safely say that you are not the norm you are by comparison what people don't want, you aren't happy unless some poor fool hands you cash without a clue.

Conor · 27-01-2004, 02:06

Can I point something out politely? Your posting makes no sense at all. You are entitled to a voice, and I am interested in reading what you have to say, but the above posting is unitelligible. What's all this incest? Please clarify, for your own sake.

I have visited Paul and Mandy, and I have agreed to take one of the pups, so I guess that makes me one of the fools you were referring to. It's a risk I'll take, and I suppose that means that I am satisfied with what I have seen, heard, and expect. Read my postings on your original thread concerning the death of Lynx, if you want a better description of my position. I am an experienced dog owner, and a student of comparative ethology, hoping to specialise in wolves at a later date.

Now, I may just be wrong, but I get a distinct impression that there is something you want to spit out, but you haven't.

Can I also point out that your thread title 'UK breeders dog dies tonight in accident!' is crassly insensitive, and reads like a facile tabloid headline. Maybe you rubbed Paul and Mandy up the wrong way with this, and maybe they are genuinely concerned that you come across as not taking the ownership of a dog seriously. I am not saying that is the case, but your original postings DID create an impression, and remember that we are only as good as the words on this site, as we don't know each other. Everything else is an investment of faith, and given what I have just said, we here in these forums have to propagate that faith built solely on a few words in a posting, and not on the relationships we have in the real world. A place like this is therefore a place where you could realise your dreams, and get the pet you so desire, or you could end up bitterly dissapointed, and fleeced into the bargain.

Whatever you want to say, please say it clearly, without ambiguity and be the devil's advocate; throw it into the public arena. We can all talk about it like adults then, with no insults and with an exhaustive objectivity where possible. I'm not singling you out saying that. It is something we should all do. I thought we were all here with a common love of both dogs, and the Czech. Let's all be grown up about it please, or we all (and I mean all) end up looking like a group of inbred oafs.

Conor

JacobH · 27-01-2004, 04:55

^
l
l

Wise words conor.. have to say that I'm quite surprised with some of the comments some people give and get around here.. I mean most of you are gown up right ?.. except me (17) =)
Reaally love these dogs.. well have never met on but for now I'm reading up on all thins I can find about the Csw .. and also canine behaviour. Very intresting stuff, good to now even if you don't own a dog yourself.. yet

Jacob

gaulirmorn · 30-04-2004, 17:17

I shall try to speak clearly, though I am seeing red at the minute and really need to vent my frustration!

I am sure everyone agrees with you, Paval about what a complete travesty this whole thing is, but we need to know what we can do to help Paul?

Although we accept that these animals are plain and simple dogs, DEFRA simply does not agree, and they are not the kind of organisation to back off easily. We need to band together and drag DEFRA into the present, because they sure as hell ain’t living in it yet!

There is no doubt in my mind that the DEFRA paper regarding wolf ‘hybrids’ is totally inappropriate to the concerns of the Czech and Saarloos. Reading the paper makes you realise that the ‘facts’ shown there are drawn from, and aimed at, direct wolf / dog crosses, NOT our breeds! The information given is archaic to say the least, and does not pertain to either breed in either form or context. This is breed victimisation, plain and simple!

Why are the Czech and Saarloos seen as such immense threats to society?

There has never been a case of human injury recorded against either breed, and there is no obvious cause for concern regarding their instigation into UK society, and yet DEFRA is intent upon demonising these breeds just like the United States vilifies the wolf / dog crossbreed!

Don’t get me wrong in this, the wolf / dog crossbreed is an entity that requires serious consideration, and should be monitored and controlled in order to address public safety. These crosses are NOT pets, they are semi-feral creatures, and Government agencies quite rightly should be concerned about their interaction with society!

But the Czech and Saarloos are registered breeds; upheld and promoted by non other than the WORLD CANINE FEDERATION and that should speak volumes to the likes of the Kennel Club of Great Britain and DEFRA! I will be interested to hear what the FCI advises Paul, after all, the Kennel Club claims that the FCI has some sway with it, so we’ll see, shall we?

I am so sick and tired of this whole ‘if it’s got wolf in it, it’s gonna tear your throat out’ attitude attached to the wolfdog breeds! How many times do we have to explain that if it’s got wolf content, it’s LESS likely to attack you than a standard dog?

And you know what really gets me angry? On paper, people (and DEFRA) find wolfdogs more threatening than say, Rotties, or Mastiffs, and yet if you were to put someone in a room with one of each breed (minus it’s owner) we would soon see which one they would run from!

And like HELL would it be the Czech / Saarloos!

Any dog can attack a human regardless of its wolf bloodline, recent or ancient! In the wrong hands even a Chihuahua can be a dangerous and threatening animal! Believe me, I know this to be a fact!

Red Setters, beautiful and placid dogs, but I know one that had to be put to sleep because he turned on his mistress and gave her 17 stitches and a torn ligament. Mishandling?
Mal-treatment?
Neglect…
no.

Epilepsy!

As you can tell, I am incredibly angry with this whole issue! I’ve wanted a wolfdog ever since I can remember, and have spent the last three years researching the breeds and trying to find a breeder. When Paul and Mandy contacted me, I felt like all my prayers had been answered, not only had I found an UK breeder, but a reputable one toot! Who could ask for more?

Well, I don’t see why some antiquated and irrelevant ruling upheld by a red-taped, burocratic and out-of-touch agency should shatter my dream!

Come on people - use your voice! Let Paul know you are behind him! Lets band together and shut DEFRA up once and for all! Let’s get the Czech and Saarloos wolfdogs into the UK!

massimo · 06-05-2004, 19:06

Hi all,
I am massimo/massusy owner of 2 woldogs (oliver and lunatica).
I usually write in the Italian Forum and one of us spread the terrible news about Wofdogs in UK.
We were thinking of sending letters or mails to people responsible of Dog world in UK.
Maybe they will be useless but by filling their PCs of mails in which so many people and so many other dog owners around europe show they care and show how "harmless" a wolfdog can be maybe they will think that it is the matter to check if reall wolfdogs are so "dangerous".
My wolfdogs live at home and have full access to our livinroom.
I leave my 10 year old daughter alone with them and believe me, she is the safest child on earth!!
Can Paul let us have addresses, mails or any detail about people that can or should decide so we will fill them up of thousands of mails?
I guarantee that we will be making as much noise as possible.

Personal remark: how stupid to ban a breed in UK with only one breeder knowing that in other countries (European countries) the breed is relatively common.!!!

Absolutely nor regard at all!!
(by the way, i lived 10 years in London and know english habits quite well, unfortunately for many brits Wolf means bad)

Thanks a lot and please let us know.
Massimo

gaulirmorn · 10-05-2004, 14:02

Hi Massimo,

I’m so pleased to read your mail!

I wondered if us UK wolfdog proponents would get any response from Europe. Paul has told me that the European clubs are very angry about the whole UK situation, and I was really hoping that we could get them behind us!

I think your mail drop idea is excellent, but of course the idea needs Paul’s blessing before going ahead. If we can get enough people to mail the necessary people, we might just be able to make some kind of difference to the ruling. It’s one thing complaining and bemoaning the lack of understanding in the UK towards the Czech and Saarloos breeds; but if we can get people who actually own the dogs and who can vouch for them on a person level, the authorities over here might just pay a little attention to our plight.

Maybe it’s just wishful thinking but I don’t want to accept the idea that I might never be able to have my dog, and I am willing to back Paul all the way!

What is it about the Czech or Saarloos that makes them terrifying enough to place them onto the Dangerous Wild Animal list?

Again, we come back to the ‘big bad wolf’ syndrome, Little Red Riding Hood being victimised by the ‘Beastie with the big Teethies’! Well frankly, I am at a loss as to how the UK authorities can renege on their acceptance of the Czech and Saarloos due to their ‘dangerous’ aspect, when they ALREADY have breeds on their register that are renowned for being aggressive!

It is my understanding that dogs become banned and restricted due to their threat to society. By threat, I mean those guilty of attacks on humans.

Below is a list of dogs accepted and registered by the UK Kennel Club that have been found repeatedly guilty of bite attacks. The breeds shown are used for illustration purposes only, and should not be demonised. I am merely using them to make the point that there are double standards at play in the UK K.C. I use the information given to underline just how mis-advised the Kennel Club of Great Britain and DEFRA are when it comes to deciding what is, and what is not, a dangerous breed!

Unfortunately, the bite statistics for these breeds are American based as I have found the UK stats impossible to find. All the breeds listed below have been found guilty of aggressive attacks on humans. Those shown in capitols are currently also registered with the UK Kennel Club.

*AKITA;
AUSTRALIAN SHEPHERD;
BOXER;
BULLDOG;
BULLMASTIF;
Chesapeake Bay Retriever;
*CHOW CHOW;
COCKER SPANIEL;
COLLIE (VARIOUS);
Coonhound;
DACHSHUND (VARIOUS TYPES);
*DOBERMAN;
GOLDEN RETRIEVER;
*GREAT DANE;
*HUSKY;
Japanese Hunting Dog;
LABRADOR RETRIEVER;
LHASO APSO,
*MALAMUTE;
MASTIFF (VARIOUS);
NEWFOUNDLAND;
*Pit bull "type" (may include crosses or misidentified individuals);
POMERANIAN,
RHODESIAN RIDGEBACK;
*ROTTWEILER;
*GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG;
*SAINT BERNARD;
SHEEPDOG;
Sled-"type" (may include crossbreeds) CANAAN DOG, ELKHOUND, FINNISH SPITZ, GERMAN SPITZ, JAPANESE SHIBA INU, JAPANESE SPITZ, KEESHOND, NORWEGIAN BUHUND, SAMOYED, SWEDISH VALLHUND, NORWEGIAN LUNDEHUND;
TERRIER - TYPE (may include crossbreeds) VARIOUS;
WEST HIGHLAND WHITE TERRIER;
Wolf/Dog hybrid, (please be aware that these are direct wolf and dog crossbreeds as bred in the USA, NOT the Czech or Saarloos wolfdog breeds!)
YORKSHIRE TERRIER

* A study of fatalities caused by dog bites from 1979 through 1996 showed that the Akita, Alaskan Malamute, Chow, Doberman Pinscher, German Shepherd, Great Dane, Husky, Pit Bull, Rottwelier and St Bernard breeds have all killed one or more persons. In fact, the Centre for Disease Control (CDC) in the USA considers these breeds to be the highest risk. Since 1975, fatal attacks have been attributed to over 30 different dog breeds yet the main focus has been geared towards the larger dog breeds: Pit bulls, Rottweilers, Dobermans, Akitas etc. Both Czech and Saarloos breeds are large-sized, but does this make them more dangerous than small or medium sized breeds?

It has long been summarised that size is indicative of demeanour, i.e., the bigger the dog, the more capable it is to kill. It is a point of fact that a smaller breed is just as capable of killing as a larger one.
FACT – California, October of 2000 - a baby was killed by a four pound family Pomeranian dog.
FACT – Tennessee, February 2002 - a six-week-old baby mauled by a Jack Russell Terrier.

Okay, so both cases are of babies, small in size and completely defenceless, but what about the simple fact of biting a human full stop? Let us question those who are most at risk from dog bites on a daily basis - Vets, Groomers, Kennel and animal shelter staff. Which breeds are they most wary of?

When polled, the majority of these workers agreed that most bites result from the small and aggressive Terrier / Spaniel types. Cocker Spaniels, Dachshunds, Scottish Terriers, Schnauzers, West Highland Terriers and Yorkshire Terriers where all listed time and time again as the culprits of aggressive behaviour!

Bites from larger dogs, though not unheard of, are declared as occurring far less frequently.

It is clear to me that the media are only interested when a large dog bites. Most people will tend to report a large dog for being aggressive, but will overlook a small dog’s attack. Do they find it ‘embarrassing’ admitting to being attacked by a 10lb fur-ball?

Also, I believe that when large dogs attack it is generally taken out of context, with vital evidence of what provoked the dog being omitted from the story. For example, Maryland, USA was horrified to hear of a 13-year-old boy being mauled by a Pit Bull Terrier. Was this another case of that fatal combination: incompetent owner with an uncontrollable animal?

FACT - when the boy was bitten he was leaning over the garden fence into the dog owner’s yard, teasing the Pit Bull kept there.
FACT - the SAME child had been warned THREE times by the owner to leave her dog alone.
FACT - having experienced severe problems with locals teasing and provoking her dog, the owner contacted the local authorities for advice on how to best protect her dogs, and those stupid enough to aggravate them!
FACT - according to an adult eyewitness, DESPITE having received THREE verbal warnings, this lad blatantly ignored the numerous ‘No Trespassing’ and ‘Beware of the Dog’ signs and continued to trespass on the Pit Bull’s property!
FACT – the dog was not at fault, it was protecting it’s home, and it’s mistress!

FACT – the dog was taken from its owner and destroyed.

Try as they might, the Kennel Club of Great Britain and DEFRA will always be misguided in their attempts to keep Britain ‘dog safe’, because there is no such thing as a ‘safe’ dog breed! All dogs are capable of aggression, no matter what the breed, and wolf content does not lean the animal towards a tendency for bite attacks.

I have experience of both large and small breeds, and I can say with hand on heart, ‘give me a LARGE breed, ANYDAY!’

A dog is no less of a threat to man simply because it is no higher than my ankle! My ex boss had 9 Chihuahuas, which she insisted on bringing to work with her, and I STILL have scars on my hands from where they bit me! I have had chunks torn from my jeans by my ex boyfriend’s Jack Russell, just for trying to get through the garden gate! Okay, so maybe they were both being territorial. But when you consider that another ex of mine had a Doberman Pinscher that could hold a balloon in her mouth without bursting it; or that I have also fed a Rottweiller a pork treat from my lips to hers on the ONLY occasion I EVER met her, and I think you get my point!

18-10-2002, 17:40	#1
Per Olav Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 395	CzW breeders in UK Hi. As far as I know England is the only European country prohibiting CSV import. I should like to know why and if any other countries also prohibit such import. --- Per Olav

18-10-2002, 17:55	#2
wolfeywolf Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 16	Import if they are prohibiting, then why is their one already here? i'm in the uk and really would love a CzW or SW but i have been told that it is the breeders that don't want them here. if anyone knows of any breeders who are willing. please, please could you let me know? laura

18-10-2002, 19:18	#3
Per Olav Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 395	Import Thank you, Laura. Some time ago someone on this list wrote that the CSV was not allowed imported to England due to English import regulations. I should like to have more exact information, please. Let me rewrite my posting :-) In Norway the following breeds are banned due to their reputation as "fighting dogs": Fila Brasileiro, Tora Inu, Dogo Argentino and Pit Bull Terrier. These breeds are also banned in several other countries. As far as I know any country has accepted the CSV as a legal breed and every kennel club, except the Swedish one, has recognized the breed according to FCI approval. I should like to know of any country where the CSV is not allowed or banned and the reason why this is so. Per Olav

20-10-2002, 10:15	#4
Karin Junior Member Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 4	VERY UPSET! Hallo Laura, I don't know how many breeders you've asked for a puppy, but probably not the right ones. I also don't know where you live. I'am from Czech Republic. Here are some breeders who would sell you for £1900 maybe their wife or husband.:-)) But you can find here some breeders who are choosing the future owner of their puppy. What is not good for Csw for sure is to let the dog almost all the time with pack. They need to bild up a relation with you individually. And they need gite enough of owners time If they should be well-bred. You can have your dog in his own room but It is not good to let the dog closed too long. I have my Brenna in our flat. I have no problems to let her there alone for five or six hours per day when I need it. But problem starts when there is not just one dog.They are very inventive. You should really meet more dogs and their owners. I think nature of Csw depends from big part on the owner and life conditions prepared for this dog. Even If the dog seems to be shy already as a puppy you can still more or less change this. I have never met any Csw which would be agressive to people. This doesen't mean that they don't exist but It's evidence of rare occurrence of agressivity. You can do from Csw very shy dog which is afraid of everything or agressive killer of animals, agressive to people or obedient good socialized dog who likes people and other dogs(little problem is among males which are dominant, but this can be also reduced). These dogs are a little bit special. They have some natural features of behaving. It's really good to read, ask abot everything in what you are not sure, and meet many owners and breeders of Csw. And even if you do this when you would have a puppy of Csw you find out that you still don't know what to do in many situations. Karin

11-09-2003, 21:31	#6
Beowulf Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Dortmund Posts: 410	Thanks very much for your reply Margo, I have just found some information on the website of our Dept of Enviroment. It states that "those breeds claiming a wolf content, however diluted must still be licensed under the dangerous wild animal act. It actually mentions the CsW and the Saarloos. Apparently the local councils in this country that deal with such licenses charge anywhere from 100 to 1000 pounds for them. So my next step is to find out how much my local council will charge. Caly. __________________ Parole! Niemals aufgeben!

28-10-2003, 20:24	#7
Margo Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Późna Posts: 1,281	We just added information about first planned CzW litter in UK. Just take a look on this: http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/dbase/o1066.html __________________ . The customs of your tribe are not laws of nature - George Bernard Shaw

10-12-2003, 10:24	#10
solowolf Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 316	hi & greetings to everyone on wolfdog.org sorry i have not added any comments on wolfdogs in uk but i have been in france living with, breeding & studying this breed from whelping of a bitch to rearing pups till they are young adults, i have read all the mails & it is very difficult for margo or any of the team to answer questions regarding importation to uk i know lots of you out there want czech wolfdogs i did & it took me 5 yrs to get one, my bitch & dog are on pet passports issued by the MINISTERY OR DEFRA as it is knowen, the kennel club will tell everyone all the details on how a breed can become reconised infact all the information is very easily obtained on there wed site, it also lists all banned breeds, the czech is not one of them, information on when this breed was reconised in its own country of origin & by the FCI are on WOLFDOG.ORG you will need all this information when asking the kennel club any questions, or they will say sorry its not a reconised breed in uk, i have done all the ground work over the past 6 yrs with the kennel club so in the not to distant future they will be if excepted a breed within the uk, i strongly advise that you learn all you can about this breed before attempting to obtain a puppy, many breeders in europe & beyond will gladly let you visit & see there dogs, highly recommened ,,,,, the first litter will be born next week in the uk, i did put hopefully first litter born in uk as i was waiting to see if my bitch was in whelp, these dogs can not be quarenteened it is out of the question i do not know any breeder that will do this, you have to ask the breeder to keep & rear your puppy till it is 10mths old only then can it get a passport, the breeder will rear & care for this puppy have all its vaccinations blood tests done it then gets vet health checked you then collect your dog, i was very lucky i got to live with & rear my own czech male, i hope this is of some help to you all for the saarloos fans in uk there are already 2 in the uk the male that went in september was checked by local council & defra vet NO LIENCE WAS REQUIRED merry christmas to all the wolfdog.org team & to all you wolfdog fans best regards paul & mandy uk

12-12-2003, 22:57	#11
solowolf Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 316	with the comments on a wolfdog to be at discover dogs unfortunatly this is not possible dogs are only eligable to go here if they are a reconised breed by the kennel club, but leave it with me i shall have a czechoslovakian wolfdog at discover dogs as soon as i possibly can after 6 years nothing will stop me now regards paul uk

18-01-2004, 23:12	#12
mid'lifecry'sis Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 5	How to get a dog into the UK?n Where are the UK breeders? Hello all! LOL I am looking at the purchase of a Wolfdog; urrr I guess I wouldn't be here otherwise right! I have found lots of UK legislation against bringing the dog into the country, a licence is required. I just can't find a Uk breeder - anyone know of one? I have written to a few European breeders today to gain an idea as to cost and how'd they help on import. I am looking for a companion to my 4 month old Lurcher, the Wolfdog must be good with my two horses and sheep, along with two kids, 2 and 4 years old - oh and the cat - I hope that pup would grow up and get used to the livestock and I have heard good things about the dogs with kids and other family pets. I fear that the Wolfdog is somewhat 'underground' here in the UK and as such is susceptible to interbreeding and dilution of the true breed - all at a cost and loss to the new owner. Help and advice appreciated. Cheers. Mid, North Kent, Nr London, England.

19-01-2004, 16:36	#13
michaelundinaeichhorn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bad Dürkheim Posts: 2,249	Hello Chris, you can import dogs from members of the EU without quaranteen. The dog has to be vaccinated against rabies and has to have enough antibodies against rabies what is to be prooved with a blood test. That means: you vaccinate the puppies, what is absolute sensless before the 12th week and should be repeated if you have to be sure that ist is putting up enough antibodies about four weeks later (as far as I can remember it has to be 12 weeks when it´s vaccinated anyway for UK). Then you have to take a blood sample at least three month later (I´me not a 100%sure about the three month difference but I think that was the required period). The blood sample has to be tested by a specialised laboratory (there is a list for every country, the vet in the exporting country knows). If the antibodytiter is high enough you are allowed to import the dog to UK, it has to get a wormtreatment against a special sort of tapeworm and against ticks shortly before and you ar only allowed to use a few airports and ports for importing. That means, you need a breeder that is willing to keep the dog till this age, that is socialising it properly in this period and that is willing to to the bloodtest for you. Of course that will make the price for the dog a lot higher than normal. If your dog has been successfully tested once, you just have to revaccinate it regulary, but you don´t have to repeat the test (that is the rule for Sweden and should be for the UK too, because it is going to be the same for all EU countries , with those speciallities for the quarantee-countries). Regards Ina

27-01-2004, 02:06	#16
Conor Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 14	Can I point something out politely? Your posting makes no sense at all. You are entitled to a voice, and I am interested in reading what you have to say, but the above posting is unitelligible. What's all this incest? Please clarify, for your own sake. I have visited Paul and Mandy, and I have agreed to take one of the pups, so I guess that makes me one of the fools you were referring to. It's a risk I'll take, and I suppose that means that I am satisfied with what I have seen, heard, and expect. Read my postings on your original thread concerning the death of Lynx, if you want a better description of my position. I am an experienced dog owner, and a student of comparative ethology, hoping to specialise in wolves at a later date. Now, I may just be wrong, but I get a distinct impression that there is something you want to spit out, but you haven't. Can I also point out that your thread title 'UK breeders dog dies tonight in accident!' is crassly insensitive, and reads like a facile tabloid headline. Maybe you rubbed Paul and Mandy up the wrong way with this, and maybe they are genuinely concerned that you come across as not taking the ownership of a dog seriously. I am not saying that is the case, but your original postings DID create an impression, and remember that we are only as good as the words on this site, as we don't know each other. Everything else is an investment of faith, and given what I have just said, we here in these forums have to propagate that faith built solely on a few words in a posting, and not on the relationships we have in the real world. A place like this is therefore a place where you could realise your dreams, and get the pet you so desire, or you could end up bitterly dissapointed, and fleeced into the bargain. Whatever you want to say, please say it clearly, without ambiguity and be the devil's advocate; throw it into the public arena. We can all talk about it like adults then, with no insults and with an exhaustive objectivity where possible. I'm not singling you out saying that. It is something we should all do. I thought we were all here with a common love of both dogs, and the Czech. Let's all be grown up about it please, or we all (and I mean all) end up looking like a group of inbred oafs. Conor

27-01-2004, 04:55	#17
JacobH Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: (at this moment New Zealand) Posts: 8	^ l l Wise words conor.. have to say that I'm quite surprised with some of the comments some people give and get around here.. I mean most of you are gown up right ?.. except me (17) =) Reaally love these dogs.. well have never met on but for now I'm reading up on all thins I can find about the Csw .. and also canine behaviour. Very intresting stuff, good to now even if you don't own a dog yourself.. yet Jacob

30-04-2004, 17:17	#18
gaulirmorn Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 17	I shall try to speak clearly, though I am seeing red at the minute and really need to vent my frustration! I am sure everyone agrees with you, Paval about what a complete travesty this whole thing is, but we need to know what we can do to help Paul? Although we accept that these animals are plain and simple dogs, DEFRA simply does not agree, and they are not the kind of organisation to back off easily. We need to band together and drag DEFRA into the present, because they sure as hell ain’t living in it yet! There is no doubt in my mind that the DEFRA paper regarding wolf ‘hybrids’ is totally inappropriate to the concerns of the Czech and Saarloos. Reading the paper makes you realise that the ‘facts’ shown there are drawn from, and aimed at, direct wolf / dog crosses, NOT our breeds! The information given is archaic to say the least, and does not pertain to either breed in either form or context. This is breed victimisation, plain and simple! Why are the Czech and Saarloos seen as such immense threats to society? There has never been a case of human injury recorded against either breed, and there is no obvious cause for concern regarding their instigation into UK society, and yet DEFRA is intent upon demonising these breeds just like the United States vilifies the wolf / dog crossbreed! Don’t get me wrong in this, the wolf / dog crossbreed is an entity that requires serious consideration, and should be monitored and controlled in order to address public safety. These crosses are NOT pets, they are semi-feral creatures, and Government agencies quite rightly should be concerned about their interaction with society! But the Czech and Saarloos are registered breeds; upheld and promoted by non other than the WORLD CANINE FEDERATION and that should speak volumes to the likes of the Kennel Club of Great Britain and DEFRA! I will be interested to hear what the FCI advises Paul, after all, the Kennel Club claims that the FCI has some sway with it, so we’ll see, shall we? I am so sick and tired of this whole ‘if it’s got wolf in it, it’s gonna tear your throat out’ attitude attached to the wolfdog breeds! How many times do we have to explain that if it’s got wolf content, it’s LESS likely to attack you than a standard dog? And you know what really gets me angry? On paper, people (and DEFRA) find wolfdogs more threatening than say, Rotties, or Mastiffs, and yet if you were to put someone in a room with one of each breed (minus it’s owner) we would soon see which one they would run from! And like HELL would it be the Czech / Saarloos! Any dog can attack a human regardless of its wolf bloodline, recent or ancient! In the wrong hands even a Chihuahua can be a dangerous and threatening animal! Believe me, I know this to be a fact! Red Setters, beautiful and placid dogs, but I know one that had to be put to sleep because he turned on his mistress and gave her 17 stitches and a torn ligament. Mishandling? Mal-treatment? Neglect… no. Epilepsy! As you can tell, I am incredibly angry with this whole issue! I’ve wanted a wolfdog ever since I can remember, and have spent the last three years researching the breeds and trying to find a breeder. When Paul and Mandy contacted me, I felt like all my prayers had been answered, not only had I found an UK breeder, but a reputable one toot! Who could ask for more? Well, I don’t see why some antiquated and irrelevant ruling upheld by a red-taped, burocratic and out-of-touch agency should shatter my dream! Come on people - use your voice! Let Paul know you are behind him! Lets band together and shut DEFRA up once and for all! Let’s get the Czech and Saarloos wolfdogs into the UK!

06-05-2004, 19:06	#19
massimo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Prague 6 Posts: 2,090	Hi all, I am massimo/massusy owner of 2 woldogs (oliver and lunatica). I usually write in the Italian Forum and one of us spread the terrible news about Wofdogs in UK. We were thinking of sending letters or mails to people responsible of Dog world in UK. Maybe they will be useless but by filling their PCs of mails in which so many people and so many other dog owners around europe show they care and show how "harmless" a wolfdog can be maybe they will think that it is the matter to check if reall wolfdogs are so "dangerous". My wolfdogs live at home and have full access to our livinroom. I leave my 10 year old daughter alone with them and believe me, she is the safest child on earth!! Can Paul let us have addresses, mails or any detail about people that can or should decide so we will fill them up of thousands of mails? I guarantee that we will be making as much noise as possible. Personal remark: how stupid to ban a breed in UK with only one breeder knowing that in other countries (European countries) the breed is relatively common.!!! Absolutely nor regard at all!! (by the way, i lived 10 years in London and know english habits quite well, unfortunately for many brits Wolf means bad) Thanks a lot and please let us know. Massimo

10-05-2004, 14:02	#20
gaulirmorn Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 17	Hi Massimo, I’m so pleased to read your mail! I wondered if us UK wolfdog proponents would get any response from Europe. Paul has told me that the European clubs are very angry about the whole UK situation, and I was really hoping that we could get them behind us! I think your mail drop idea is excellent, but of course the idea needs Paul’s blessing before going ahead. If we can get enough people to mail the necessary people, we might just be able to make some kind of difference to the ruling. It’s one thing complaining and bemoaning the lack of understanding in the UK towards the Czech and Saarloos breeds; but if we can get people who actually own the dogs and who can vouch for them on a person level, the authorities over here might just pay a little attention to our plight. Maybe it’s just wishful thinking but I don’t want to accept the idea that I might never be able to have my dog, and I am willing to back Paul all the way! What is it about the Czech or Saarloos that makes them terrifying enough to place them onto the Dangerous Wild Animal list? Again, we come back to the ‘big bad wolf’ syndrome, Little Red Riding Hood being victimised by the ‘Beastie with the big Teethies’! Well frankly, I am at a loss as to how the UK authorities can renege on their acceptance of the Czech and Saarloos due to their ‘dangerous’ aspect, when they ALREADY have breeds on their register that are renowned for being aggressive! It is my understanding that dogs become banned and restricted due to their threat to society. By threat, I mean those guilty of attacks on humans. Below is a list of dogs accepted and registered by the UK Kennel Club that have been found repeatedly guilty of bite attacks. The breeds shown are used for illustration purposes only, and should not be demonised. I am merely using them to make the point that there are double standards at play in the UK K.C. I use the information given to underline just how mis-advised the Kennel Club of Great Britain and DEFRA are when it comes to deciding what is, and what is not, a dangerous breed! Unfortunately, the bite statistics for these breeds are American based as I have found the UK stats impossible to find. All the breeds listed below have been found guilty of aggressive attacks on humans. Those shown in capitols are currently also registered with the UK Kennel Club. AKITA; AUSTRALIAN SHEPHERD; BOXER; BULLDOG; BULLMASTIF; Chesapeake Bay Retriever; CHOW CHOW; COCKER SPANIEL; COLLIE (VARIOUS); Coonhound; DACHSHUND (VARIOUS TYPES); DOBERMAN; GOLDEN RETRIEVER; GREAT DANE; HUSKY; Japanese Hunting Dog; LABRADOR RETRIEVER; LHASO APSO, MALAMUTE; MASTIFF (VARIOUS); NEWFOUNDLAND; Pit bull "type" (may include crosses or misidentified individuals); POMERANIAN, RHODESIAN RIDGEBACK; ROTTWEILER; GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG; SAINT BERNARD; SHEEPDOG; Sled-"type" (may include crossbreeds) CANAAN DOG, ELKHOUND, FINNISH SPITZ, GERMAN SPITZ, JAPANESE SHIBA INU, JAPANESE SPITZ, KEESHOND, NORWEGIAN BUHUND, SAMOYED, SWEDISH VALLHUND, NORWEGIAN LUNDEHUND; TERRIER - TYPE (may include crossbreeds) VARIOUS; WEST HIGHLAND WHITE TERRIER; Wolf/Dog hybrid, (please be aware that these are direct wolf and dog crossbreeds as bred in the USA, NOT the Czech or Saarloos wolfdog breeds!) YORKSHIRE TERRIER * A study of fatalities caused by dog bites from 1979 through 1996 showed that the Akita, Alaskan Malamute, Chow, Doberman Pinscher, German Shepherd, Great Dane, Husky, Pit Bull, Rottwelier and St Bernard breeds have all killed one or more persons. In fact, the Centre for Disease Control (CDC) in the USA considers these breeds to be the highest risk. Since 1975, fatal attacks have been attributed to over 30 different dog breeds yet the main focus has been geared towards the larger dog breeds: Pit bulls, Rottweilers, Dobermans, Akitas etc. Both Czech and Saarloos breeds are large-sized, but does this make them more dangerous than small or medium sized breeds? It has long been summarised that size is indicative of demeanour, i.e., the bigger the dog, the more capable it is to kill. It is a point of fact that a smaller breed is just as capable of killing as a larger one. FACT – California, October of 2000 - a baby was killed by a four pound family Pomeranian dog. FACT – Tennessee, February 2002 - a six-week-old baby mauled by a Jack Russell Terrier. Okay, so both cases are of babies, small in size and completely defenceless, but what about the simple fact of biting a human full stop? Let us question those who are most at risk from dog bites on a daily basis - Vets, Groomers, Kennel and animal shelter staff. Which breeds are they most wary of? When polled, the majority of these workers agreed that most bites result from the small and aggressive Terrier / Spaniel types. Cocker Spaniels, Dachshunds, Scottish Terriers, Schnauzers, West Highland Terriers and Yorkshire Terriers where all listed time and time again as the culprits of aggressive behaviour! Bites from larger dogs, though not unheard of, are declared as occurring far less frequently. It is clear to me that the media are only interested when a large dog bites. Most people will tend to report a large dog for being aggressive, but will overlook a small dog’s attack. Do they find it ‘embarrassing’ admitting to being attacked by a 10lb fur-ball? Also, I believe that when large dogs attack it is generally taken out of context, with vital evidence of what provoked the dog being omitted from the story. For example, Maryland, USA was horrified to hear of a 13-year-old boy being mauled by a Pit Bull Terrier. Was this another case of that fatal combination: incompetent owner with an uncontrollable animal? FACT - when the boy was bitten he was leaning over the garden fence into the dog owner’s yard, teasing the Pit Bull kept there. FACT - the SAME child had been warned THREE times by the owner to leave her dog alone. FACT - having experienced severe problems with locals teasing and provoking her dog, the owner contacted the local authorities for advice on how to best protect her dogs, and those stupid enough to aggravate them! FACT - according to an adult eyewitness, DESPITE having received THREE verbal warnings, this lad blatantly ignored the numerous ‘No Trespassing’ and ‘Beware of the Dog’ signs and continued to trespass on the Pit Bull’s property! FACT – the dog was not at fault, it was protecting it’s home, and it’s mistress! FACT – the dog was taken from its owner and destroyed. Try as they might, the Kennel Club of Great Britain and DEFRA will always be misguided in their attempts to keep Britain ‘dog safe’, because there is no such thing as a ‘safe’ dog breed! All dogs are capable of aggression, no matter what the breed, and wolf content does not lean the animal towards a tendency for bite attacks. I have experience of both large and small breeds, and I can say with hand on heart, ‘give me a LARGE breed, ANYDAY!’ A dog is no less of a threat to man simply because it is no higher than my ankle! My ex boss had 9 Chihuahuas, which she insisted on bringing to work with her, and I STILL have scars on my hands from where they bit me! I have had chunks torn from my jeans by my ex boyfriend’s Jack Russell, just for trying to get through the garden gate! Okay, so maybe they were both being territorial. But when you consider that another ex of mine had a Doberman Pinscher that could hold a balloon in her mouth without bursting it; or that I have also fed a Rottweiller a pork treat from my lips to hers on the ONLY occasion I EVER met her, and I think you get my point!