Pacino's kennel

[neesk]

Originally Posted by solowolf

hi i have just returned from holland last night i read the post by Malgor,,, just to let you all know, people from the club drove 900kl last night and picked the pups up, so they are now back with the breeder, we can all make mistakes homing pups but just to let you know in uk, we put it correct as soon as we learn about it, Andre is a very reasponsable breeder and has now got pups back, they have been vet checked this morning and are fine, the injuries Malgor talked about when he got the pups must have healed up super fast as no sign of lump on nose or lip were evident at vet check, as i said none of us are perfect we do on occasions make mistakes and Andre and the club have learnt from this one, but we did correct it very quickly, thank you for all your concern about the puppies regards mr r winder.
have to log in on my wifes pass as mine is not working yet again LOL ...

You correct mistakes quickly, huh? Perhaps you should check your facts. The simple *fact* here is that My wife and I were the victims of identity theft, and have had our lives savings wiped out - including the money which was supposed to be transfering to Andre to pay for the pups.

After two days of calls back and forward between myself and Andre (yes, those calls your wife mentioned that I, apparently, "would not answer"), we both agreed that the pups should go back to her to be rehomed elsewhere, as it could take up to 3 months before I know how much (if any) of my savings I will get back, and I could not reasonably expect Andre to wait that long. There was no sense in us both being out of pocket over this. This was not the ideal course for anyone involved, as our (Andre's and my) primary concern was always how the pups would take having to travel again - but the fact was that Andre needs to pay her bills too, so *I* chose to return the pups.

Some of the people on this site sicken me. You know, Andre said to me last night that she hoped that people on this forum, and the whole unfortunate situation with the pups, would not put me off wolfdogs - and I said that, no, it wouldn't. But I sure as hell won't stick around here for long if pratts like the Winders are going to drag my personal life in to it - and I sure as hell won't be buying wolfdogs again in the uk, as dealing (in some fashion at least) with Mr and Mrs Self-importants imaginary 'club' is relatively unavoidable.

I have to say that I wish things could have gone differently between Andre and I, but obviously she has to pay her bills, just like anyone else, and has been very sympathetic and helpful through all of this. The Winders, however, have not even been involved in any of this, and still choose to show everyone how 'clever' they are, and how good their 'club' is at sorting out 'problem owners'. [censured]

I really wish I did not have to drag my personal life out in public, but I will not accept someone implying that I was a bad owner - [censured]

As for the injuries - I am amazed that the dogs can be vet checked already, given that they only left here at 10:50 pm last night, headed for leicester - so I would be surprised if they are even back with Andre yet, never mind a vet. Also, if they really were vet checked, then I would check the vet's qualifications, as the sore in the dogs mouth is hard to miss, if you actually open his mouth. The lump on the bitches nose was pretty much gone when she left here (though the scratch had still not completely healed), but that is the point of medication! It is supposed to heal! If you are still in doubt, you may wish to ask the 'vet' to download this high-resolution image which shows the scratch and lump quite clearly http://www.aois.co.uk/IMG_2296.JPG , or this one http://www.aois.co.uk/IMG_2295.JPG, which shows a nice profile of the bitches nose (bottom, in the red collar), clearly showing the lump - I have others, if you need them, though sadly none of the dogs lip.

Thank you to those people have managed to be polite and helpful on this forum, but I honestly don't know why you bother - it seems obvious to me that the actions of those who want to make you all look like elitist, selfish morons are only going to make you look bad too.

-Malgor

[tikaani]

Originally Posted by solowolf

hi i have just returned from holland last night i read the post by Malgor,,, just to let you all know, people from the club drove 900kl last night and picked the pups up, so they are now back with the breeder, we can all make mistakes homing pups but just to let you know in uk, we put it correct as soon as we learn about it, Andre is a very reasponsable breeder and has now got pups back, they have been vet checked this morning and are fine, the injuries Malgor talked about when he got the pups must have healed up super fast as no sign of lump on nose or lip were evident at vet check, as i said none of us are perfect we do on occasions make mistakes and Andre and the club have learnt from this one, but we did correct it very quickly, thank you for all your concern about the puppies regards mr r winder.
have to log in on my wifes pass as mine is not working yet again LOL ...

glad shes got the pups back, they seemed freindly and healthy when i picked mine up, which i must say is great, no diaher or any uther problems, shes freindly and not shy at all, she eats properly and goes to the toilet outside already, i have a doughter of five and she loves the pup and is already walkin her. yes the pup jumps up but at the end of the day she is a pup, but she aint that bad at that eather. i couldnt of wished for a better pup.. thanks to paul and his wife for all the help and to andre for the pup, couldnt of met nicer or more helpfull people.....

[neesk]

For those who may be interested, I just got off the phone to Andre, and the puppies are now back with her, having travelled very well. Curiously, she tells me that the pups got back to her at 10am this morning - which really makes me wonder how Paul could think that they were back and already vet checked at 8:50am?

So, please be aware, anyone who deals with Paul or Mandy Winder in future, that they are prone to... how should I put it... bending the truth, to make themselves look important.

In my book, there is nothing worse than someone who will use another's tragedy to further their own ends.

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Hi Paul,

I'm curious too. What's happening?
Please let us know. Your website seem to have disappeared.

Michael

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

http://ukwolfdogs.com/17.html?frm_da...a1_type=large#
This is a photo of your homepage, put there on the 6/26/08.
In January you gave statements here calling yourself a CSW-breeder.
and that was a statement of your wife written on the 12th of March:




Pacino's Kennel
hi i have been reading these posts, we kept three of our pups from last litter two bitchs and one dog, of coarse czechoslovakian wolfdogs are little terrors thats what makes them more fun than normal type dogs, i think a lot of problems are comming from owners, possibly not enough time for pup or pups, my husband spends so many hours with the pups, he even sleeps with them a few nights when they are young, he plays as they like it very ruff,, he will spend time with all the pups playing then after few hours they will calm down, this is when he will spend about 10 minutes with each pup training them, one at a time, pups together are always up to mischief, its there nature, its the fun of owning wolfdogs, if you can not cope inform breeder its there responsability for the welfare of there pups, so Malgor as it is obvious you can not cope with the pups i suggest you return them to breeder before these pups are beyond training, forget about yourself and wanting to own a wolfdog if you think anything about the dogs do them a favour they have a life to live as well as you but they need help quickly, this is why we have only bred 2 litters in 6 yrs, its hard to get the correct type of people for this breed, often people will tell you all you want to hear as they have read up a bit on this breed, but lots of people tell porkies to get a pup.we have owned big dogs, had difficult breeds,,, no these are czechoslovakian wolfdogs and are completely different , and are the best breed of dog we have ever owned, mother nature herself with a bit of dog in there,,,,,, please contact us at [email protected] we will give you help and advice but you must at all times be completely honest with any questions we ask , my husband is due home on friday please contact him, regards mrs m winder


Somehow your answer doesn´t fit your former statements and your homepage that can be found as a link under wolfhybrids.

Ina

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Mr. Winder looking at your own homepage you obviously bred hybrids, no matter where you sold them. And you yourself put the pictures under the title "our last litter" on your own homepage.
And the fact that the nice German guy now did remove all photos he got on his homepage doesn´t change the facts he himself showed before you managed to contact him. We have downloads from everything.

So even if it took you four visits here and several days for a strange answer I don´t believe you, no matter how impolite your answers are.
You did a very bad job Mr. Winder.

Ina

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn

Mr. Winder looking at your own homepage you obviously bred hybrids, no matter where you sold them. And you yourself put the pictures under the title "our last litter" on your own homepage.
And the fact that the nice German guy now did remove all photos he got on his homepage doesn´t change the facts he himself showed before you managed to contact him. We have downloads from everything.

So even if it took you four visits here and several days for a strange answer I don´t believe you, no matter how impolite your answers are.
You did a very bad job Mr. Winder.

Ina

now whos changing there tune, you state i bred the pup now in germany, i say i did not, now you say i breed wolf hybrids, no the correct word is wolfdogs , have i ever said that i dont breed wolfdog of different percentages NO i havnt, but if i breed wolfdogs of whatever percentage one thing i do not do IS SELL OR REGISTER THEM AS CSW AS YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE OUT, what i breed is none of your business, people are changing in europe to different wolfdogs any idea why, one big reason is all the new health problems now in the CSW and Saarloos , you and everyone have seen and read the topics on this site regarding health issues, dont you all think it strange that this started occuring about the same time as the saarloos were having health issues, all the health issues are now similar in the breeds and as the csw is much younger breed it has caught up very quickly with the saarloos in health issues, now take some realy good advice sort your own house out first, do you know the name of any csw dwarf pups born? well there is on registered and is on this database and has pedigree, xcenater arnie, from chrop z kaldenska zar father, csw cross saarloos, then back to csw and registered, i am putting all my info on my web site this weekend as the dutch kennel club are draging there heels, dna tests are positive and are with dutch kennel club, so certain lines from csw and saarloos are mixed and there are health problems,,

[nanouk]

Originally Posted by solowolf

now whos changing there tune, you state i bred the pup now in germany, i say i did not, now you say i breed wolf hybrids, no the correct word is wolfdogs , have i ever said that i dont breed wolfdog of different percentages NO i havnt, but if i breed wolfdogs of whatever percentage one thing i do not do IS SELL OR REGISTER THEM AS CSW AS YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE OUT

Originally Posted by pacino
, all our dogs are registered on wolfdog.org all are chipped and can be identified, all breedings in Europe are logged and photos taken of each mating, so you can be assured that no cross breeding takes place, we have asked kennel club of uk, and as long as we keep records if they get recognised then all dogs can have pedigrees

I know you changed names, is that due to personality disorder, cause before as Pacino you stated above?

[michaelundinaeichhorn]

Originally Posted by solowolf

now whos changing there tune, you state i bred the pup now in germany,

Apart from you not being able to understand what I wrote I guess by purpuose.
Do you really think anybody here is stupid enough to believe that anybody is keeping and breeding Hybrids because of the CSW health problems?
- Apart from you of course.

Ina

[bengan]

Originally Posted by solowolf

now whos changing there tune, you state i bred the pup now in germany, i say i did not, now you say i breed wolf hybrids, no the correct word is wolfdogs , have i ever said that i dont breed wolfdog of different percentages NO i havnt, but if i breed wolfdogs of whatever percentage one thing i do not do IS SELL OR REGISTER THEM AS CSW AS YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE OUT, what i breed is none of your business, people are changing in europe to different wolfdogs any idea why, one big reason is all the new health problems now in the CSW and Saarloos , you and everyone have seen and read the topics on this site regarding health issues, dont you all think it strange that this started occuring about the same time as the saarloos were having health issues, all the health issues are now similar in the breeds and as the csw is much younger breed it has caught up very quickly with the saarloos in health issues, now take some realy good advice sort your own house out first, do you know the name of any csw dwarf pups born? well there is on registered and is on this database and has pedigree, xcenater arnie, from chrop z kaldenska zar father, csw cross saarloos, then back to csw and registered, i am putting all my info on my web site this weekend as the dutch kennel club are draging there heels, dna tests are positive and are with dutch kennel club, so certain lines from csw and saarloos are mixed and there are health problems,,

"what i breed is none of your business" is that going to be the name of your new club..'None of you business wolfdog club' ?
or is still the same one you claimed to have had before..

hi, in uk at present we do breed, our dogs can not have kennel club registrations as they are not officially recognised, our club keeps a register of all pups born, we produce our own pedigrees, keep all our hip and eye test results, all pups are chipped by club member, we keep photographic evedense of all matings, two members must be present at matings as witness, we have database of all dogs in uk, we need all records kept as we still fight to get the breed recognised and hope if it is all our paperwork will be accepted by the kennel club, we could take dogs to france and have them conformation done, but the pedigree would only have mother and father on it, all our dogs and pedigrees are available from wolfdog.org, so as long as you all know who our dogs are and that they are pedigree dogs we are happy to live with this, wewill never give up on our dogs, and they are here to stay no matter what defra or government may think, best regards paul

I must say that for someone who also claimed to only want the best for the recognized wolfdog breeds.. you sure are singing another tune now..
"i breed wolfdogs of whatever percentage"
Your your credibility is just about zero.. Am looking forward to seeing just what you put up on your website Friday.. or will you come up with some other accuse ?

bengan

[Nebulosa]

Czw is having problems as any other breed, exactly for CzW be a new breed we not know all illness that can appear and are tipical, it's a question of time for this problems start to appear, principally when we have some uninformed so called breeders that make completly nonsense inbreedings.
A well informed person will minimally study the breed standard for be able to recognize a untipical CzW, a good breeder will know what line are safe and pure to work and what maybe isn't pure... But we ever will find uninformed people that want a dog for impulse, as comercial breeders that wants try making money solding puppies, these really are people on risky line to take hybrids and mix as CzW because are unable to recognize a tipical dog, as not have knowledge about the lines.

Originally Posted by Solowolf

people are changing in europe to different wolfdogs any idea why,

And because that maybe CzW and Saarloos stop being easy solding as before, and that's why you change your talk about breeding and conservation.
Congratulations you make all people of idiot that have at least a little believing that you're a serious breeder in your country that're doing a hard work for breed by sometime.

Originally Posted by Solowolf

one big reason is all the new health problems now in the CSW and Saarloos

I only hope not find in this topic you writing that you're crossing CzW with TIMBER wolf hybrid because health problems in the breed.
This is a nonsense.

[Angelika]

Anthony, as Paula already said, these "producer" always argue for health-problems

[wolfin]

Originally Posted by solowolf

hi, i have two czech puppies booked for Austrialia this year, they do have quarenteen but this differs, from uk quarenteen is only for 30 days as uk is rabies free, if you need any help on importation to Aus please let me know, you are aware there are very limited quarenteen kennels in Aus and that you need to pre book long in advance of your animal arriving, if you have any questions please email me at [email protected]

czech pupps or mix? (sorry others for OT)

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by wolfin

czech pupps or mix? (sorry others for OT)

hi Daiva, you knew this was coming or you would not have written a slanderous remark about my kennels would you ,you done this knowing i would reply so you and your comrads could take the piss out of me online again, now i have owned czech wolfdogs for nearly 9 yrs, i have bred 2 litters, i used two bitchs and used two different stud dogs, you however have breed 3 litters all from the one bitch and you bred the same bitch 3 years in a row????? poor animal, call yourself a breeder? in uk we call it puppy farming, you by doing this have done nothing at all to help the bred, people recently in posts have talked about breeders useing the same stud dog, you are doing the exact same only with the same bitch, you also breed P5 to P3 bitch so what was this all about? was P5 the best you could use? i think not,,,, the bonitations are to help better the breed by useing the best dogs and bitchs, obviously there was more to breeding an F5 to an F3 than mets the eye or you would have used a P1 ??/ if you think you are a breeder or lover of this breed then sit back look at what you are doing and THINK AGAIN,,,, no clever answers on this one and nowhere to hide its all logged into the data base what you breed. before you come back i bred a cwd to a wolf this is my private breeding programe with friends in USA and Europe, but this year i bred Atlas my male cwd with Carpathian wolf again for my personal programe, which has nothing to do with anyone only myself and my friends, i bred my cwd to the wolf not to other breeds of dogs and i do not as some idiots on this site try and say register the pups, with breedings like yours soon a carpathian wolf will be needed to save this breed, i will not go into your breeding and bonitation results i have said enough for now, im sure your face is now same colour as your hair, AND YOU ARE MODERATOR ON THIS SITE,,,,, LOL,,,,pacino

[wolfin]

oh please forgive me

mea culpa mea optima culpa, tomoorow I call to me friend zoo and make me personel wolf x CSW linie. And be like great breeder from UK, who not very know who he see in hes and others dogs pedigree.

thanks for lession about breeding and thanks for compliment ,and me very like me red hair

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by wolfin

oh please forgive me

mea culpa mea optima culpa, tomoorow I call to me friend zoo and make me personel wolf x CSW linie. And be like great breeder from UK, who not very know who he see in hes and others dogs pedigree.

thanks for lession about breeding and thanks for compliment ,and me very like me red hair

lady you need big lesson on breeding and bigger one on abusing a cwd bitch.make all your jokes but it wont cover up your complete ignorance and lack of knowledge of dog breeding ,your so called love of the cwd breed , people like you are destroying the breed by the day, you make a beautiful cwd bitch into puppy machine you are a disgrace to this bred, how are you a moderator ? no answer as to why you abuse your bitch? no answer to why you used P5 dog on P3 bitch,, MONEY what other laim excuse do you possably have. not for the good of the breed thats for sure. I can see you have good breeding progame you want to be first to produce a P9 and of coarse all bred from the one poor bitch........... now go hang your head in shame,,,

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by wolfin

czech pupps or mix? (sorry others for OT)

always an idiot to mess up the posts, and a puppy farmer at that

[Vaiva]

Originally Posted by solowolf

before you come back i bred a cwd to a wolf this is my private breeding programe with friends in USA and Europe, but this year i bred Atlas my male cwd with Carpathian wolf again for my personal programe, which has nothing to do with anyone only myself and my friends, i bred my cwd to the wolf not to other breeds of dogs and i do not as some idiots on this site try and say register the pups, with breedings like yours soon a carpathian wolf will be needed to save this breed, i will not go into your breeding and bonitation results i have said enough for now, im sure your face is now same colour as your hair, AND YOU ARE MODERATOR ON THIS SITE,,,,, LOL,,,,pacino

Oh, yes, we have some wise breeders just like you, pacino, here in Lithuania. In almost every second vilage lives a hunter, who knows best about cinology, so he gives porridge for his dogs to eat, keeps them on a chain and breedhis laikas with wolves. All of these uneducated rustics heve there own lineages, just like you do. Oh, they also believe that it is better for female to have one litter in her life than to be bred every year. And if you tell them you mated your champion bitch with a champion stud, they will really believe, you will have a champion litter Nice, pacino...

Wolfin, did you pay him for advertising your kennel? This is not very fair

[solowolf]

Originally Posted by Vaiva

Oh, yes, we have some wise breeders just like you, pacino, here in Lithuania. In almost every second vilage lives a hunter, who knows best about cinology, so he gives porridge for his dogs to eat, keeps them on a chain and breedhis laikas with wolves. All of these uneducated rustics heve there own lineages, just like you do. Oh, they also believe that it is better for female to have one litter in her life than to be bred every year. And if you tell them you mated your champion bitch with a champion stud, they will really believe, you will have a champion litter Nice, pacino...

Wolfin, did you pay him for advertising your kennel? This is not very fair

my dogs eat only the best and never on chain they have 2 acres excercise area on my farm, what i breed with wollf is my buisness, as for champion i dont own one,showing dogs is for pagent people, the show people breed for looks and end up corrupting the breed by using inferior dogs that may look nice but lack in many of the original charicteristics of the true breed, i believe in breeding a bitch twice in her life time, with minimum of 1 year for rest between litters, if you or your friend knew anything about breeding as you obviously dont then you would know that breeding a bitch to this extent only leads to inferior pups from the later litters, a bitch needs time to recover and build up all her body resorceses to ensure a healthy litter, one thing is for sure I DO NOT ABUSE MY DOGS IN IRREGULAR OVER BREEDINGS , whats not fair? wolfin made sarcastic remark on post where people are trying to give advice to people from Australia on importing dogs, if she wants to have a go at me online instead of sending private mail, them i look up her track record and hit back, im glad she did it for now all good breeders know of what she does with her cwd bitch, abuses the bitch to produce as many pups for sale as possable, so now to you whats your problem? or are you just her only friend with a tongue .i dont think many people will want to speak up on her behalf with the breeding practice she has with her cwd. This bitch has been abused enough let her rest and enjoy the rest of her life........

[GalomyOak]

Originally Posted by solowolf

...showing dogs is for pagent people, the show people breed for looks and end up corrupting the breed by using inferior dogs that may look nice but lack in many of the original charicteristics of the true breed

Paul,

I do understand that showing dogs in countries (such as my own) where judges haven't even heard of the breed, let alone know how to judge one is for fun (and hopefully to give a judge a new experience, and educate spectators), and really not of any value. I also understand that in some countries (such as my own) bonitations are currently not practical. But, I think to have dogs with exteriors that meet the standard is important, since many of these features served a big purpose in the breed as a working breed. Obviously, the exterior of the dog is not the only important factor to consider by any means. I am curious - what are your criteria for breeding a dog? In what instances would you refrain from breeding a dog?

Take good care,
Marcy