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Old 24-07-2008, 17:24   #1
michaelundinaeichhorn
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Default Spencer Wolfdogs

today I have some questions concerning puppy trade between England and Belgium:
One German person keeping hybrids got himself a new puppy, mix of Timberwolf and CSW.
http://www.wolf-hund.de/Selma_ie.htm
In a German forum he showed a photo of her parents.
http://forum.wolfdog.eu/read.php?12,263,266#msg-266
The photo that is shown there is a photo that can be found on your homepage too and on wolfdog.org.
On this homepage on wolfdogs and hybrids is a link to your homepage under the point hybrids
http://ukwolfdogs.com/3.html
http://www.male-kuryak.be/links%202.htm

This guy wrote the puppy is out of Pacino kennel and there is a rumour that the puppies had been brought to Belgium and had been sold as Spencer Wolfdogs. The owner of the puppy at least says he got the puppy there
http://forum.wolfdog.eu/read.php?12,263,263#msg-263

Remembering all the fuss you made about other kennels I would be really interested in a statement of you to this all.

Ina
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Old 25-07-2008, 00:55   #2
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I remember that some time ago appear in this forum a man on UK searching for a wolf or hybrid for mate with his Tamaskan female, saying about the preservation of the highland wolves and something like that together.
After it I find this same person with some videos on youtube showing his new dog a czechsolovakian wolfdog.
In that time I wonder who sold a CzW for such unprepared person, that was able to write in his site that "utonagans and Tamaskan are out now that CzW and SwH are accepted on UK", searching in the database I find Atlas Azul Pacino in the name of this person.
I had find some time ago this person solding mix puppies between Tamaskan and his CzW as Czechoslovakian wolfdog puppies.
We can find here too a testimonial of a new USA owner wich receive 2 CzW puppie instead one from a UK breeder, have some problems with the puppies getting almost at point to give then to another person if not deceif-me.
You comes here and ever talk about do the right, the control of the breeding for take out of DEFRA's and all like, but you not seems act like what you write.
We can find on this forum some questions about your UK club of 2 persons without reply when you comes here only for accuse others breeders that, maybe, you have some personal problems with.
Please, we're still waiting the results of DNA exams of the De Louba Tar dog's as you promise, I never saw DNA exam take more than 3 months for be done.

Yes, I make a new topic only for Pacino's kennel, because as Ina and me some people must have too unreplied questions or new questions to do.
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Old 25-07-2008, 09:27   #3
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hmmm... Mutara's variant number 2?
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Old 26-07-2008, 00:05   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post
Hello Mr. Winder,
today I have some questions concerning puppy trade between England and Belgium:
One German person keeping hybrids got himself a new puppy, mix of Timberwolf and CSW.
http://www.wolf-hund.de/Selma_ie.htm
In a German forum he showed a photo of her parents.
http://forum.wolfdog.eu/read.php?12,263,266#msg-266
The photo that is shown there is a photo that can be found on your homepage too and on wolfdog.org.
On this homepage on wolfdogs and hybrids is a link to your homepage under the point hybrids
http://ukwolfdogs.com/3.html
http://www.male-kuryak.be/links%202.htm

This guy wrote the puppy is out of Pacino kennel and there is a rumour that the puppies had been brought to Belgium and had been sold as Spencer Wolfdogs. The owner of the puppy at least says he got the puppy there
http://forum.wolfdog.eu/read.php?12,263,263#msg-263

Remembering all the fuss you made about other kennels I would be really interested in a statement of you to this all.

Ina
hi we havnt owned a czechoslovakian wolfdog for nearly 7 mths we sold most to USA and 2 in uk, i have asked for all my details to be removed from this web site, and all the dogs i did own to be relisted with there new owners, spencer wolfdog? i must look that one up some day, mr winder
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Old 26-07-2008, 09:50   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solowolf View Post
hi we havnt owned a czechoslovakian wolfdog for nearly 7 mths we sold most to USA and 2 in uk, i have asked for all my details to be removed from this web site, and all the dogs i did own to be relisted with there new owners, spencer wolfdog? i must look that one up some day, mr winder
Hi,

so who's breeding under your name (Pacino)?
The above mentioned litter was born on April 28th 2008.
Father: Solitario de la Noche Pacino, a CSW
Mother: Kizzy, a Timberwolf
I hope this information will help you to get to know what animals I'm talking about
Did the six male puppies stay in the UK and was only the one female brought to Germany via Belgium?
I'm sorry to bother you with this questions, but I'm a little bit concerned that this F1-hybrid will be registered as a CSW in Germany and appear as a pure bred CSW in breeding.
Although you're obviously not involved in the CSW business anymore, would it be very kind of you to help us clarifying this situation.

Thanks in advance,
Michael
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Old 26-07-2008, 10:28   #6
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http://ukwolfdogs.com/17.html?frm_da...a1_type=large#
The first link always shows one picture, the other interesting ones are No. 15,16,17,21,27

Ina
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Old 26-07-2008, 10:37   #7
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And Photo No. 20
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Old 26-07-2008, 14:54   #8
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There seems to be a little panik. The picture of the parents have been removed from wolfdog.eu. Too late, I have downloads.

Ina
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Old 27-07-2008, 10:16   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post
There seems to be a little panik. The picture of the parents have been removed from wolfdog.eu. Too late, I have downloads.

Ina
No worries Ina, there´s plenty of pictures on Paul own site, like this one for example:

Fantastic wolf, the mother. But definatelly not a CSW. Makes me wonder, if one can ever again trust anything - the pedigree of the pups, their origin and the breeder himself, be it Pacino´s kennel or Louba Tar.
It is becomming a risky business to buy a CSW, and that will not be good for the breed at all.
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Old 27-07-2008, 16:13   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solowolf View Post
hi we havnt owned a czechoslovakian wolfdog for nearly 7 mths we sold most to USA and 2 in uk, i have asked for all my details to be removed from this web site, and all the dogs i did own to be relisted with there new owners, spencer wolfdog? i must look that one up some day, mr winder
Paul...
what's this...?? Are you leaving the wolfdog world behind..?
I think you first own everyone an explanation or at least the status of your claim/action against certain breeders in Europe.
You have made a lot of accusations in the past.. with the claim that all will come out and everyone will get what they deserve.
We are all still waiting... or could it be that people are getting what they deserve with your absance...??

Would be nice if you would own up to your claims or your faults..

waiting but not holding my breath..
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Old 28-07-2008, 09:51   #11
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"UK wolfdogs", hihi....http://www.male-kuryak.be/links%202.htm

I predicted this move some time ago, but had no idea that it'd be that soon and the initaitive would come from the continent

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea if the official Slovakian CSV breeding committee (or whatever is called the body responsible for the breed) informed DEFRA & FCI that "UK wolfdogs" should not be confused with CSV?

Just to be on the safe side when a scandal breaks out in the UK and all European CSV breeders are accused of raising wolf hybrids under the disguise of the CSVs.
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Old 28-07-2008, 10:45   #12
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Anyway one has to be extremly careful whom to sell a puppy and who´s bitch to mate.
There are more people breeding crosses in Britain and the rest of Europe, we should be very carefull not to involve the breed with this.
Unluckily there is always someone more greedy than responsible.

Mr. Winder visited this site twice since our questions but no reaction, I guess that is an answer too.

Ina
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Old 28-07-2008, 11:32   #13
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Just to be on the safe side when a scandal breaks out in the UK and all European CSV breeders are accused of raising wolf hybrids under the disguise of the CSVs.
Looking back over my shoulder, this was one of the items debated in Norway some years ago. As you all know the breed is banned here.
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Old 29-07-2008, 03:26   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post

Mr. Winder visited this site twice since our questions but no reaction, I guess that is an answer too.
Isn't this the best reply?
What excuse can someone who was suposed to protect and try the legallity of a banned breed in his country, proofing that CzW are no more than one dog breed, so called serious and responsible breeder that make some people believe in his suposed serious work for the breed, that had the courage to comes here and attack another breeder because personal problems accusing that it was for the breed sake, that now appear solding wolfmixes crossed with CzW over world and solding so called CzW to Northen Inuit breeder wich mix then in the "forbiden by DEFRA law" country... really have no excuse.
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Old 30-07-2008, 00:13   #15
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Originally Posted by Mirkawolf View Post
No worries Ina, there´s plenty of pictures on Paul own site, like this one for example:

Fantastic wolf, the mother. But definatelly not a CSW. Makes me wonder, if one can ever again trust anything - the pedigree of the pups, their origin and the breeder himself, be it Pacino´s kennel or Louba Tar.
It is becomming a risky business to buy a CSW, and that will not be good for the breed at all.
now you have all made your own assumptions that i bred and supplied a pup to germany go to my web site look at wolfdog pups the last photo,,, recognise the puppy ? have a closer look,,, you got it,, this is the German pup,,, does the mother with it look like kizzy, i dont think so, not bred in uk, sorry to dissapoint you all, the dutch kennel club are taking long time to sort mrs Keizer, so i will put all the things i know and photos on my web site i will send a post to wolfdog.org you all have 1 day to copy it all then i remove it, i want to go public with this but friends in europe want kennel club to sort it out, i think they have had more than enough time to stop it, i know the german pup and who bred it, they have no interest in czechoslovakain wolfdogs why on earth would they want to register it as one??/ i think you are taking the p,,, out of this german guy or yous have nothing better to do, mr winder
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Old 30-07-2008, 01:10   #16
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hi Ina no post or reply, cat got your tongue? lost for words, jumped the gun a bit with your accusations this time didnt you? not to worry we all make mistakes, i think you once mentioned dna and how quick it was done in Germany why not get dna done on this guy Jans pup? i will glady supply blood samples from my dogs not a problem, you arrange it as you seem to be the most upset about it all, the big joke was the registering of such a pup as a czechoslovakian wolfdog, the breeder of Jans pup took years to get this far and did not go to the time and effort to get it seen as a csw you are having a laugh, but i do see your point when i look at some csw registered by mrs Keizer as in the article from th dutch show in 2005, her dog does resemble a Jackal, it is sad to think this can happen in europe but as i said before its the tip of the iceburg with both csw and saarloos and involves lots of breeders, check my web site friday evening, mr winder
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Old 30-07-2008, 03:36   #17
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Unfortunately breeding wolfdog hybrids is a weird and dangerous hype on this moment in several European countries….
And I become sick of all the breeders who accuse each other to cooperate with this crazy buyers hype!

Besides the import of real F1, 2 and 3 from Canada, US and UK or east Europe (with fake papers and names of other breeds), not real prepared people are also interested in all kind of ”Wolf-look a likes”

So several breeders in different countries did see a new “Market”
And these mixes breeders use not only CsW but also SWH (see for example the advertisement of cry-wolf from UK: cry-wolf hybrid Saarloos puppies are uniquely bred by crossing hybrid and Northern Inuits with pedigree Saarloos. )
For me it is a bit crazy , that even in UK where a normal breed like CsW is even not recognised, breeders can public sell all kind of hybrids and mixes!

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post
Anyway one has to be extremly careful whom to sell a puppy and who´s bitch to mate.
There are more people breeding crosses in Britain and the rest of Europe, we should be very carefull not to involve the breed with this.
Unluckily there is always someone more greedy than responsible.
Ina
I agree for 100%! Because when you read very well the several sites and forums of hybrid breeders, you will discover that a lot more common CSW and SWH breeders in Europe are involved or cooperate with them…

And that is their own choice , even like it is your own choice to buy a puppy or to cover your female or male with a common CsW “dog” or any of their not official recognised breed….

But I am I am glad that I am only a very small “incidental hobby breeder“ in this breed, who only cares about the general progress of this breed, and I am not involved with any of all these kind of “mix-mess”.
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Old 30-07-2008, 09:37   #18
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Unfortunately breeding wolfdog hybrids is a weird and dangerous hype on this moment in several European countries….
My basic question is - whats the sense breeding the hybrids today ?
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Old 30-07-2008, 09:47   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solowolf View Post
we havnt owned a czechoslovakian wolfdog for nearly 7 mths
What´s with Soli, the csw-father of your hybrids??? You don´t own this csw - bred by yourself - "for nearly 7 mths"?

R O T F L M A O
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Old 30-07-2008, 09:53   #20
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My basic question is - whats the sense breeding the hybrids today ?
nothing else but earning money, Pavel

cheers
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