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Breeding Information about breeding, selection, litters.... |
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01-12-2009, 03:40 | #1 | ||||||||||||
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'Jackals' vs. 'Asian Ovtcharkas'
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First, if you have so much experiences you should know I'm not the only one breeder in Poland. And not the only one who travel, who hear what breeders in Slovakia and Czech Republic are telling. Last time I even travel less as the others. Some facts were new for me. But I also know more (MUCH more) as written here - about some other checked dogs and "forgoten" results. I promise you - if I would write something like this you will have much more questions to answer... Quote:
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Thanks God beside this pack there also good judges exist... There are two reasons. It is much complicated to become a judge in Poland than in Czech Republic - you need min 9 years. Maybe it is better becuase threre will be not such judges as some new in the club who do not know even the BASIC things written in the breed standard but jude aready shows and bonitations. The second and main reason is - an FCI judge can not criticise other judges. Sorry but when I see such lack of knowledge by some so called "expert-judges"... I prefer to stay "only a breeder" and have the possiblity to criticise if someone is botching his work as judge... Quote:
Sorry people - one explanation. Monika suffers from split personality. Officialy she make huge advertisement for moloss type dogs. You can see it here: http://zmolu.vlcak.cz/cs/csv/posuzovani_exterieru.aspx (the title is "Judging the exterier"). You can find there a photos of head of a dog where is written "dog with typical masculine head with a little bit heavy head and open lips". It is truth - it is typical head of a male of.... Central Asian Ovtscharka - Group II FCI - Molossoid Breeds. All you need to do is to cut the ears: Monika, as for a judge such words are just EMBARRASSEMENT. Because it shows you have NO IDEA what is written in the breed standard about the head of a Wolfdog. Do you think the CzW owners are idiots who believe you that SO should look typical CzW.... WOLFSIH CZW.... Or maybe you know the unwanted truth... Because the title for this photo is "tezka_hlava" - means "HEAVY HEAD". Heavy is untypical. Simply said - officialy you make advertisement for untypical looking Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs. And unofficialy - unoffcialy you use last time dogs which are so similar to mine... trying to breed dogs which look like mine... Something what you will never confirm... Quote:
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z Molu Es - 163 puppies. Checked= no idea, not all results are published. Dogs with x-rays = 60 Stats: HD-A = 30 dogs and it makes 50% HD-B = 10 dogs and it makes 16.7% HD-C = 10 dogs and it makes 16.7% HD-D = 8 dogs and it makes 1.3% HD-E = 2 dogs and it makes 0.33% Results made in Czech Republic, Denmark, Italy, France, Poland and one in Germany. z Peronowki - 101 puppies. Checked= all listed, no results hidden. Dogs with x-rays = 47 Stats: HD-A = 40 dogs and it makes 85.1% HD-B = 5 dogs and it makes 10.6% HD-C = 2 dogs and it makes 0.42% HD-D = 0 dogs and it makes 0% HD-E = 0 dogs and it makes 0% Results made in Denmark, Italy, Spain, Lithuania, France, Poland, Brasil and in Germany (6). Sorry but these statistics do not lie. Dogs from my kennel were checked in more countries than yours but still the results are MUCH better than yours. So the results given by Polish vet to my females are confirmed by the vets in different countries by different vets. By the way - the only 2 HD-C results come from Poland - seems that the most stict vets we have in PL... Quote:
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If you want to see who has problem with Veron and why - read careful the polish forum (even if the reasons are the same as you hear also in Czech Republic). Quote:
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Thanks to you Monika I found out who is the source of the bad rumors spreading about my kennel. Now Michael can found out who is spreading bad rumors about his kennel... Who's next? I do not ask about the Czech one - all we know already your targets... Envy, envy, envy... Taking into consideration what you are spreading about other kennels. Bah - about whole countries ("all Slovakian dogs look like females") your next words written in the bottom are only pompous text without any meaning... Quote:
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01-12-2009, 09:01 | #2 | |
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I would really be interested which of our dogs ever got a result worse than ED 0/0, the HD-results are published, at least I tell the puppy-buyers to send in the official papers. Our puppy-buyers even get money back if they make an official x-ray. If you talk about other problems, I would even more love to know about them, because I am very happy about the good health but willing to learn. So please Monika, I am very interested in the source of this gossip!! Obviously you know where it comes from, please tell everybody the name of the person and of course the name of the dogs, here in this forum!!! To every dog of our kennel that ever had to visit a vet there are vet reports and witnesses to give proof of that you are telling lies. If this is walking in grace for you for me it is stumbling around. Ina Last edited by michaelundinaeichhorn; 01-12-2009 at 09:38. |
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01-12-2009, 15:41 | #3 | |
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how many in Brazil...Spain :0)) And how many in CZ ??? :0)) The reselut of Aset Voodoo was in some old Club´s Magazin, try to find it. Margo, you are big manipulator with facts and is easy to write numbers without others numbers! I don´t have time to speaking here and lose time with fanatic, for that is impossible to accept others opinions. I know well problems of polish breeders with you, and in Europe too. Nobody has only friends :0)) You was in Italy never and I have really big doubts, that you saw Hargo, well. Please, Margo go to the Toscana and look at him well! I am smiling only of your words, nothing more is possible to do with human stupidity. I don t want to have dogs " z Peronowki " ...Why????? I not prefer their typ...best is always Jolly z Molu Es...and I like Mery Bell z Molu Es - her head....You wanted to have dogs " Z Molu Es " not me " z Peronowki " whitch always will have blood of my dogs! I feel envy and hate only from you and from your words and a long time. I don ´t care about you, about your dogs! I only care about my dogs and about breeding of CSWs but I ataced, never. I don´t need for my life discuss on wolfdog. org forum !! And You??? You hate...not Me. Sorry i must care about my dogs, family, children.. ..and you can dicsuss here. and article??? http://zmolu.vlcak.cz/cs/csv/posuzovani_exterieru.aspx is from Mr. Hartl foto of Hargo you can find here: http://zmolu.csvlcak.cz/thumbnails.p...=lastup&cat=-5 foto of litter " Y " z Molu Es 6 kg in 6 weeks :0) " here: http://zmolu.csvlcak.cz/thumbnails.p...lastup&cat=-42 Monika Soukupová http://zmolu.vlcak.cz/cs/default.aspx Last edited by Monika; 01-12-2009 at 15:56. |
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01-12-2009, 16:15 | #4 | |
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In CZ Mr. Hartl wrote here: ČSV - pes s dobře vyjádřeným pohlavním dimorfismem, ovšem s příliš těžkou tlamou a otevřeným koutkem. And in English - CSW - male with well - defined sexual dimorpfism, but with too heavy muzzle and open lips! |
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01-12-2009, 18:35 | #5 |
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Paula: are you sure the title you gave to this thread is appropriate?
"Breed problems at Breeding?" I will make no comments on either of the "positions" ...Just saying that if this quantity of energy was used for "better" arguments than just attacking each other, we would really be lucky, don't you think? Maybe I can invite all parts to use a more "relaxed" approach? I hate to say this but...be more "German"when you write and less "Italian".. I'm sure many bad words would turn into normal ones. About Hargo, I think Margo saw him during world dog show in Bratislava. I agree with both, I like him very very much, he reminds me of Oilver's structure and legs and bones and character but with better colours and head (not better tail ). Sorry I disagree he looks weaker and more feminie version of Eligo...he is not feminine at all and much stronger type than Eligo. Would be interesting to see a "z peronowki" litter from him too, so we can compare the results! Please...all of you...take your time to read, count to 10 and ther write. Otherwise you will be like wild animals at the zoo growling and hissing at each other and Us, the Others, watching you entertained (I'm not entertained but sorry) eating pop-corn. massimo
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---------- Oliver & Lunatica Last edited by massimo; 01-12-2009 at 18:37. |
01-12-2009, 18:56 | #6 | |
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01-12-2009, 22:59 | #7 | |
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Hmmmmmmmmmm
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Sorry I have to agree whit Rolf here "....The more I know people - The better I like my dog.... " Best regards / Mikael
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_________________________________________________ *Hronec, Rasty, Zilja * Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html
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02-12-2009, 00:26 | #8 |
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wow, heavy stuff is going on. Massimo, why you don´´t take one part of a side? You did, because you explained that Hargo is a nice csw boy. You confirmed that breeding with him and Api was a right decision.
Margo, what happened? I like you very much because you do a lot for csw and bringing csw people together. But why the hell are you fighting for years against Monika? Monika is completly right that is sounds light jealousy of you!!!! And fanatiscm! Of course she did not right here in forum, but when I read your post I was really really shocked! She did not piss at you but you did it! But it is not necessary to do this. Of course people like Ina and Michael Eichorn has nothing else to do, but you are not so, I thought. So what is your personal problem? Eichhorns have to keep their mouth close! They produce so much ill csw in germany, but nobody is talking about. What about Caya Zlata Paltz? She tried for years to get puppies! But nothing happend! Experienced male dogs tried to make puppies, but no puppies. Amy Zlata Paltz stayed clean several times. Did you sell her already? You have no place for her and bought new puppies, rumours says that you want to give her away? You moved your homes so often what happend? Why did offspring of your breeding dogs died due to illness giving from the grandparents? Eichhorns you are the biggest liar in germany in case of csw! Sorry Margo, I saw Api working several times and a dog with HD D is not able to work like this! I have a son from Api. And he is so incredible fast in movement and jumping that although I did not make hd exrays I can confirm that he is a healthy 4 year old male csw. Margo I am very disappointed of you. Your whole breeding starts with Jolly and Merry Bell z Molu Es. I can not understand why you are acting like you do! Monika has vey succesful puppies in her whole breed. You need some more 10 years to reach her level, sorry to say! And Monika is absolutely right, from my point of view your puppies and offspring could be more wolf like! Today my wife and me watched a movie about the yellow stone park. They showed a grey canid and my wife said oh look now you saw your wolf. I reapeted that was a coyote. Ok? Wolves are not 65 cm. They start from 70 cm. There is so much literature about russian wolves. Please read "Wolves in Russia". Than you maybe understand that breeding around 60 cm for females and 65 for males is far away from wolf standard! And saying a csw male should be at leat 65 cm does not mean that she should be 65 cm. And pleading for Eligio, he is nothing z Pernowki, he is z Molus es and his father. He is aggressiv like Myla and in todays world it is not good even so they have character. But it is one thing to look nice. Please calm down. And everything you know keep it in your house and not in this forum. I talked a lot with Monika why you, Margo, attack her so much, it is totaly unnecassary. Massimo I wish really that you sometimes would speak open about all you know. It is now a lot less than a few years ago, but you have a good well meaing opinion. But you can not keep out your opinion in all cases. You are friend of Monika. You want to be friend of Michael Eichhorn? Better not. I showed Miguel on our flight to spain what really happend in the case of Noomi. And miguel could not belive all the lies Michael told him. I hope that the time will come that you understand that you are only a puppy buyer like almost 100 others. He only talks to you becaue you know a lot, not because he is friend of you. he only uses you! The time will come when you will notice it. christian |
02-12-2009, 01:22 | #9 | ||
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My bulldog with E hips in both sides and NO ACETABULUM is able to walk more than 20 km without show any signals of the problem, his mother with both E hips was able to work for 8 hours with the cattle running in the fields, with the need to make 30km on foot following a horse for arrives at the work place and comes back home. You can find several cases of German Shepherds, Rottweilers and even Czechoslovakian wolfdogs displasic but completly able to work and even to pass endurance tests. You can meet several dogs with nice and free movement but at the same time completly displasic. And that's why that someone only can assure that their dogs are free of this ill after make the official results. Quote:
In this case Jolly z Molu Es also isn't z Molu Es, but a mix between od Bulizniko and Reolup, but Hero z Rofa its really from Z Rofa, so, in truth, Eligo z Peronowki is a Z Rofa dog, not Z Molu Es nor Z Peronowki. But, as Hero z Rofa was selected by z peronowki for be used as Stud, and Eligo born from it, so Eligo comes from the work and studie of Z Peronowki kennel, only that already make he a real z Peronowki. Or do you think would born a dog like Eligo if she had mate Jolly with Doran z Ponickeho Dvora? Or may we start to say that now, all dogs are nothing than z Pohranicni Straze? Well, I know Eligo very well and I can assure you that he is not agressive at all, he is a very equilibrate dog with tipical behaviour. But as it isn't the first dog I saw you saying its agressive I'm start to thinking that your problem are with dogs of more strong character, sorry but CzW is a working breed tipically with strong character and must be like that, no wonder why its not for everybody.
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02-12-2009, 01:53 | #10 | |
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I never stated anybody is my friend, I have 3 or 4 friends in all my life, and if you take off my dogs only ONE is left, sorry. I think I say my opinion even clearly even too often, and reading people "fighting" this way is a pity for all of us. You can choose to put water on fire or to feed fire with wood. I choose the first....I don't think you do to.
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---------- Oliver & Lunatica |
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02-12-2009, 04:50 | #11 | ||||
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We are waiting ...but it is on your answers Margo !!! Since you have the time to write such a long post smelling of envy, jealousy and hate, maybe you could find a few minutes to answer my posts as well ? Quote:
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Do you really trust blindly in all what people you apparently trust in are telling you ? or are your thoughts just spinning out of control, when things are not as you want them to be ? ...I`m really curious ! Quote:
...when a breeder are telling a jugde(who also is a friend of the breeder) how to make the judgement in the middle of a dogshow, where the breeder is showing her own dog, I just can help thinking, that this breeder must have megalomania and nothing can be taking seriously from this person. Sorry for the red color, but I don`t know how to qoute two different persons in same post. Last edited by Nebulosa; 02-12-2009 at 05:26. Reason: For put the red letters in the quote ballon =P I hope I didn't mistake the names |
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02-12-2009, 05:36 | #12 |
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Thanks Nebulosa ...the names is correct
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02-12-2009, 08:20 | #13 | |
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Here are the photos from the World Dog Show: HARGO And ELIGO - I have only two photos: But now back to the topic - Hargo is the type of dogs which Monika criticize; NO open lips, NO hanging lips, NO visible wrazzles, NO big chest, NO short legs, NO limphatic body. No molosoid expresion typical for "true male". Accodring to this was she is showing and writing on her web page HARGO is a female, ELIGO is female and also all European male-Wolves do not have the right MASCULINE expression.... We can only thank God that breeders have their own mind and do not follow any nonsensical advises like these which she writes... If I should choose between the molosoid type a la Asian Shepherd suggested by Monika I preffer the "jackals" ... tfu.... wolves like this:
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02-12-2009, 08:35 | #14 | |
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Monika, it is really easy to show your manipulation...
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http://slovnik.seznam.cz/?q=a+bit+too&lang=en_cz a bit too - příliš If it would be HEAVY that it would be UNTYPICAL. If it would be UNTYPICAL than it would be not showed by you as "Head with typical masculine expresion". You showed it because because for you it is MASCULINE (typical). (sure a BIT too heavy but still acceptable and representative). You are showing dog with moloss head with the desctiption (sugestion) that so should a head of a typical CzW male look like... And my answer is: NO, THANKS. I can proud say that so far I didn't bred even one dog whose head is such heavy and untypical like this. But my friend did - he has already several males with such type of head... He is breeding Anatolian Shepherds (Group II)....
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02-12-2009, 09:49 | #15 | |
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Your fanatism knows no bounds! Go to doc, Margo, and together with Anita and with admin without name For all, not for Margo - she never will understand. Typical head is up in the article. http://zmolu.vlcak.cz/cs/csv/posuzovani_exterieru.aspx The head what Margo present here still :0) is a head with fault! Too heavy, too strong nose and open lips! From this picture is it clear! Together with this head is head with too weak down jaw! For confrontation. She is manipulator and is imposible to make correct judgement from photos! Many People knows Eligo and many people knows Hargo. Its very funy her effort. Do you have some problem with Hargo, Margo?? You are jealousy, only, sorry. Hargo is 2 years old. If Hargo will be 4 years old with winter coat, like Eligo was on photo he will look like father with pup or male with female.. on photo, where will be Hargo and Eligo together. Who is male and who female on this photo?? http://www.wolfdog.org/drupal/cs/gallery/pic/66324/ Have a nice days CSW people I go to make some idealistic activities :0) |
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02-12-2009, 09:56 | #16 | ||||||||||||||
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Because she is so nice, and friendly, and peaceful person... Why I fight against her? You are talking about the mutts called Mutaras? And Monikas "work"? You have a problem because whole Slovakian Club is "fighting" agains Monika sice they stopped and banned the mixes. You have a problem because whole Czech Club is "fighting" agains Monika and exactly Czech owners were these who removed her from the Club board. You have a problem because many breeders get alergy when thay hear her name.... Why....? "Because she is so nice, and friendly, and peaceful person..."? Quote:
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Api is healthy because she can work. And Utala is heathly because he jump? There is one man in Poland - owner of a 5 years old female who is walking nice. She passed even in Slovakia the 40km run with the very good note. Some months later he made the x.rays. Result: HD-E. Not even HD-E bacause it is not strong dysplasia but the dog do not have hips at all!!! Quote:
Monika ow "her name" to Amalka od Bulizniku. She was the mother of the healthy, nice and famous dogs "z Molu Es". Sorry but the "new style" promoted by z Molu Es it something far away from dogs from that times.... Quote:
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But what it has to do with EUROPEAN Wolves. Did you really saw any? I suggest you not to watch photos and look movies but to visit some wolfparks, visit Bialowieza, Stobnica, visit the ZOOs in Czech Republic. Many great pack you will find in Poland - Wroclaw, Bydgoszcz, Krakow. You wrote you know Zoltán. Did you ever saw his wolves? Here is an adult male from his park: http://www.wolfdog.org/pics2/2007/7/...01-1876390.jpg He is typical representative of the most wolves I saw. He is maybe the size of Jolly. FEMALE Jolly. Here you have the European Wolves from ZOO Prague: http://www.wolfdog.org/pics2/2009/11...09-4610577.jpg Adult male wolf and a CzW "puppy" (7 months) And for better comparision - back of female CzW (62,5 cm on youth presentation) and the adulf alfa wolf behind I like high dogs. Or very high (but only if they are also TYPICAL of course). But I saw MANY European Wolfves, from MANY parts of Europe and I can only say: Your words about European Wolves starting from 70 cm are rubbish. Quote:
Or maybe better said - if I would follow the advices of Monika I would have puppies in the Asian Ovtscharka style - type which Monika is promoting on her page. And please do not even try to award Monika what she didn't do - Eligo is son of Jolly - in the type of Amalka OD BULIZNIKU. But he is Slovakian style. Quote:
Everybody can have his own opinion - many people saw Myla (for example in Lazne Belohrad), many saw Eligo (for example in Bratislava) and sorry if such type is "agressive" for you - you should change the breed because ALL TYPICAL WOLFDOGS are not dogs with character which you can accept or handle... Quote:
She is ignoring any questions, ignoring Michael, ignoring anybody else. All she is able to register in the madness is the word "Margo". But all I can repeat is: Quote:
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02-12-2009, 10:20 | #17 | |||
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But you know what is funny? You are talking about "feminine" male dogs... You are SCREAMING about them... But I will be also honest with you. The most FEMINE male comming from Czech Republic I saw since many years is exactly son of Upstream. Yes, it is Xtreme z molu Es. For MOTHS I was thinking that Rolf plan to start breeding - I just wondered why she buyed a female also from Upstream because it is to relative to Uno to be covered by him: Now "adult" photo - still "Czech type female": New breeding goals by "z Molu Es" kennel?
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02-12-2009, 10:49 | #18 |
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Once more for Monika and Christian and their promotion of their own style of "masculine" type of CzW ...
Just and only for you some photos of MALE (not female but MALE) wolves (not canadian, american, white, black, mamalut alike but REAL EUROPEAN) WOLVES Monika - you are for sure dissapointed... All of them are similar to "weak feminine jackals", right? Christian - all of them have the size of average CzW...
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02-12-2009, 11:24 | #19 | ||
ir Brukne
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02-12-2009, 13:09 | #20 | |
Head like a hole
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