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Old 22-11-2009, 18:14   #1
Nebulosa
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Default Wilk/Hamlet --- Radov Dvor --- Killed by Wilczy Duch kennel?!

I had post it on the Milo's 13 birthday topic opened by Shaluka at this forum.
So, I'm looking for informations about Wilk/Hamlet --- Radov Dvor---, dog that as far as I know was rescued by Shaluka, the owner of Wilczy Duch kennel, and soon after had to find another owner, after it no more informations about him or his whereabouts was known, no photos, no datas, absolutelly nothing, seeking for informations about him I received a phone number of his suposed owner, phone which never worked, also I listened some rumors about he being euthanasied, lose and so on.
Seems that not only I have interess in know more about this dog, but more people...
So I wondered, what happened with this dog? Someone have informations about?
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Last edited by Nebulosa; 24-11-2009 at 19:33.
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Old 28-05-2010, 03:00   #2
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I will post here what I posted on Polish Forum, as there was no replies at all, so I will consider that it confirmed the rumors I listened, that Wilk is death.

This were a topic I opened in English forum, after see that Shaluka opened a topic about Milo's Birthday:
Someone may ask here why does people had such interest in Wilk while before Shaluka "save his life" nobody cared for him, its simple, mostly of owners and breeders does not knew about his existence before this topic and only because that no one talked or searched about him before.
I know little bit about Rodomir as I have dog from him, I have a small idea about the condition that his dogs lives because I had pick up my dog personaly with him, as a breeder I know something about the lines of his dogs and have my own toughs about it.

As everyone knows already, Wilk is a very close inbreeded dog, I mean here that he is not only a mere "inbreeding in Iran", if we does not consider the genetical diference between full brothers as Hexa and Ciba Zemplinska Oblast' are, and threat the full brothers like one dog only, Hron will be also a mate between two half brothers like Wilk in first sight.
Wilk is a inbreed between half brothers having his father already coming from a inbreed, he is more close than a common half brothers mate.
Also his bloodline is not such common in CzW breeding being very interesting to be used.

Its not new that CzW have a very small genetic pool, also that closing lines in inbreeding will set good characters as bad ones, principaly when we remember about poligenic recessive traits that can simply pop in inbreeded litters, traits that can increase the number of unviable fetus and then cause a small number of pups born as well as weak pups and defectives, that often comes to die within the first days.

The conditions of Rodomir kennels would not allow weak or defective pups to survive long time and it also can explain why some of his litters were such small, if Wilk had such problems surely he would not have survived living at such conditions, looking at the first photo of this topic we have a young dog, I would bet about 7 months, so that means his pup and youth time were passed with Rodomir.

That makes Wilk such special and interesting dog, he is not only a inbreeding in a not common line as he had almost survived at what we could call "natural selection", something that some pressupposed healty litters would not be able to survive.
Surely Wilk would be a interesting dog to be used in breeding after we check his hips and elbows results, as inbreeding in not common line, with such wolfish appearence he could be used for open and refreash the line of some dogs in almost outcrossings, without such huge loss of wolfish characteristics, what we can say that's pretty common to happen sometimes.

When I saw this topic I were so happy that Wilk had fall in the hands of one breeder, even if he does not have pedigree, for me it would not be difficult to get as the rules of our club are different, and with DNA test and the pedigree of the mother I would be able to do his pedigree as if he were born here, I talked with Shaluka by Skype saying her about this possibility, I received a nice reply that what she most cares for was Wilk happiness and finally a decent definitive home for him, where he could have a good life and peace, pedigree does not matter, maybe in future tough about it, I found it a nice attitud.

To my amazement reading Polish forum for traine the language, I discouvered months after it that he has been donate to someone else, a policeman, no photos, no datas, I asked for Daiva the number of the new owner, as she had received it in private, I tried to phone and nothing.
Reading her blog and reading better this forum I understood that the main problem was how dagerous Wilk could be for her incoming child also about lack of time for work with him, but while she was giving up on Wilk she were bringing Kala, a new dog?!
A spark of memorie makes me remind when I asked her about the character of Wilk, about possible problems and the reply I received was something like "I'm also behaviourist", how could a behaviourist give up a problematic dog because it was supposed a danger for her child?

Reading a italian forum I saw he being called Hamlet, well to tell the truth I get really chocked after it, I've read the rules for make the pure breed certified in Italy, and seems its such a work for who does not live there, that make it looks like if as it was not possible to make the pedigree in a easy way, she give up and so discarded the dog with someone else, disappearig with him.

I already followed several cases of adopted addult dogs that few months after the adoption disappeared, mostly of them soon we discouvered were put for sleep by the pressupposed "new owner" or simply were abandoned in somewhere, unfortunately, for all I can read seems that the history repeated, but this time we lost a dog wich could contribute for the breed.
Its even funny because I've also heard rumors about Wilk had been put for sleep, but are only rumors still.

Today I discouvered that after Shaluka had someone else interested in adopt Wilk if she choices to not stay with him, looks like she choice to addopt him, I wonder, why? For disappear with him, maybe kill him?
I wonder if had people ever though about the fact, that this dog had survived all this way for someone with child tough play with his life, show itself as "hero" in a public forum and after end with him, at least it looks like it.

Sorry, but it does not make sense at all, but for me it shows a more deep problem... you're not an "mere" owner, but a breeder.

Shaluka, you were not able to solve the problem of Wilk and disappeared with him with such weak excuse, as breeder you should keep in mind that you're responsible for every dog you put in this world, and that its not rare owners not be able to keep a more difficult animals and give it back to the breeder when they're addult and really problematic because of some mistakes made by them, what would you do? give up on this addult problematic dog because it could be a dangerous for your child? because you have no time? maybe put him for sleep and simply dont give any news about him for who're interested, after all, such news would burn your reputation as breeder, right? So better hides the face in the sand like a Ostrich and let all pass.

But I also wonder how could you as breeder does not have idea about genetic, selection and the line of the breed you supposedly breed at the point to simply disappear with a dog like Wilk? Maybe you were so selfish that simpy forget that other people could be interested in use Wilk futurely.

You had no time so give up a dog while pick up another two.
You fear for a possible accident with an "problematic dog" while you breeding.
Its almost a paradox
Sorry, but dogs are not toys.
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Old 28-05-2010, 09:26   #3
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Hi,

Let me ask some question:
Do you know Saluka ? I think no, otherwise you wouldn't write what you did!
As I see you are again speaking-tube of that person who always stay behind the curtain and drive her toys...................

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Old 28-05-2010, 10:01   #4
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but Wilk/Hamlet... disapeare ........
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Old 28-05-2010, 10:05   #5
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maybe yes, maybe not
Give Agnieszka to chance to answer....
and there are a lot of dogs which were dissapeared.....................not only Hamlet
But I realy hate that some of us use open forums to attact somebody
Agnieszka is not bad person, and she is good with her dogs.
I'm sure you know Agnieszka....and place of Rado as well......................

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Old 28-05-2010, 10:11   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasmine View Post
maybe yes, maybe not
Give Agnieszka to chance to answer....
and there are a lot of dogs which were dissapeared.....................not only Hamlet
But I realy hate that some of us use open forums to attact somebody
Agnieszka is not bad person, and she is good with her dogs.
I'm sure you know Agnieszka....and place of Rado as well......................

Edit
yes, we wait antswer with info and foto. and wait veeery long time, but she not antswere. but maybe now all people becam antswer for she. I hope...
Yes I know she, I know too well .....
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Old 28-05-2010, 17:11   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasmine View Post
Hi,

Let me ask some question:
Do you know Saluka ? I think no, otherwise you wouldn't write what you did!
As I see you are again speaking-tube of that person who always stay behind the curtain and drive her toys...................

Edit
Of course for you she is a very nice person, as she had buyied your dog and made the X rays with 15 months by MKOE, as we can see in Polish Forum.
I think you should read again what I wrote for see how I get involved in this history, but if you're being mistaken by her lies, im sorry, maybe one day you will awake.
But if you want to be her "speaking tube" good luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasmine
and there are a lot of dogs which were dissapeared.....................not only Hamlet
The difference is that no owner of these dogs had published how heroic their act was for "save the life of the poor dog" in a publish forum, much less a "heroic breeder".
Not only that, disappeared dogs because the owner is unknown as the breeder who sold the pup does not payed attention to mantain the contact with him is pretty different of a breeder wich give away a dog that he supposed saved and simply threat the fact as if he does not had ever existed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasmine
Give Agnieszka to chance to answer....
Everyone already gave, including this what I wrote stayed at Polish forum waiting her reply for months!!
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Last edited by Nebulosa; 28-05-2010 at 17:29.
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Old 28-05-2010, 22:06   #8
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Exactly, Wilk/Hamlet --- Radov Dvor--- would be a very interesting dog for diversity, he is in the top O,8% living CSV regarding mean kinship.
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Old 28-05-2010, 23:31   #9
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Indeed, that's why everybody's after him.
Including me...

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Old 31-05-2010, 08:18   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikael View Post
Maybe the parents of Hamlet can be Bonitated again and get a new better result ???
The father can be used in countries where bonitation is not required and in fact he already has.

What I understood was that Wilk is (was?) unique in this sense that:
1. his parents' matching cannot be repeated for obvious and justified reasons, which Paula and Saschia mentioned

2. high inbreed carries risk of reinforcing faulty genes, but Wilk seemed to be exceptionally strong and healthy - he survived in very tough conditions as the only pup from the 'unwanted' litter.

3. I haven't seen the dog live, but all who did were amazed how beautiful and wolfish he was. Shaluka kept posting for several months about his exceptional beauty and sweet nature and probably had a good reason to drive him to Italy and arrange with Alessio attempts to get him a pedigree, though at the beginning she had claimed Wilk would only be her "beloved pet". Had those attempts been successful she'd have probably used him as rep anyway. Why otherwise should she have undertaken all the efforts and apparently, costs?

I've read somewhere that under special "controlled" conditions highly inbred typical and healthy males (never females!) may be used in breeding with genetically far related females to reinforce certain features of appearence or character. If they turn to give healthy and nice offspring, they may be later used to open new breeding lines.

Not being a specialist in genetics, I'm not sure how true or valid this info is, but I suspect that's what Paula and Michael had in mind when stating their interest in Wilk...

PS The story has two layers: genetic and moral. I'm not going to comment about the latter except expressing my surprise that Edit speaks so lightly of 'disappearance' of ANY dog, including Wilk.
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Old 31-05-2010, 21:41   #11
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Old 31-05-2010, 23:45   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woland77 View Post
Who else than you? (met you on the French forum some time ago)

Thank you
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Old 01-06-2010, 13:38   #13
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stupid question: who was the last who saw wilk? and when? and where?

Last edited by Morian; 01-06-2010 at 13:46.
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Old 01-06-2010, 16:49   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morian View Post
stupid question: who was the last who saw wilk? and when? and where?
Maybe not stupid, but... illogical How can someone know if he was the last or not?
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Old 01-06-2010, 16:58   #15
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by date
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Old 18-10-2010, 22:40   #16
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I came across this topic, which apparently faded away. Just out of curiosity: is there any news about Wilk / Hamlet?
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Old 19-10-2010, 01:04   #17
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I guess there is nothing new, it only confirms the rumors that Wilk has been put to sleep.
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Old 20-10-2010, 02:09   #18
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I'm with no words to say how wonderfull this dog seems to be, I wanna know where he's too!!
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Old 29-11-2010, 13:17   #19
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New photos of Wilk appeared in the gallery... does anybody know how old they are? Wilk looks quite young on them so I'm afraid they're not very recent...


But maybe the person who sent them knows something about his fate?
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Old 29-11-2010, 13:48   #20
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At my home, 10,11 febrary 2008, old photos.
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