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Old 10-11-2011, 14:08   #41
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^ i didn´t think that at all. I only told my opinoin about this.

I Finland we can use one female only 4 times in life time. ( other country you can make litter in every year)

That why i need to think very hard what kind male and combination i will make.
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Old 10-11-2011, 17:49   #42
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Dear Forum members!

I haven't got any reply for the question I asked. If someone doesn't want to reply in public, I promise I won't post it anywhere if (s)he sends me the price in e-mail ([email protected]).
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Old 10-11-2011, 18:09   #43
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Baron was 100e per living 2week old puppy. Now days 0,-

I have asked and one asked 700e per litter, one 100e per pup and one says i have heard not so nice about you and sorry. (about barons healty)

One from france asked 1500e hah hah hah!

from cz 700cz koruna per pup about 35e
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Old 11-11-2011, 09:45   #44
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Originally Posted by *Satu View Post
^ i didn´t think that at all. I only told my opinoin about this.

I Finland we can use one female only 4 times in life time. ( other country you can make litter in every year)

That why i need to think very hard what kind male and combination i will make.
Reasonable decisions. Some breeders (in Central Europe) consider their females as puppies factory ...
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:33   #45
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We wrer given such a wide range of prices, it was unbelievable . From the very reasonable flat 500 Euros to 1500 Euros plus 50 per living pup (we had 9 pups last time!). The argument made for some of the fees was that it was the price of a puppy - well, maybe in their country it was, but certainly not here in Bulgaria .

As someone has already mentioned, there are no rules governing this fee - a price is given and if you don't like it, use a different stud. It's as easy as that.
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Old 12-11-2011, 15:23   #46
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I forget one Dog from france was 1000e.

True is that i´m ready to pay if i really want use male but some owners think this is best and easy work.

Every dog owner and breeder can tell own prices but some times price is from space.
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Old 19-11-2011, 20:16   #47
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Originally Posted by CDaniela View Post
Reasonable decisions. Some breeders (in Central Europe) consider their females as puppies factory ...
In Central Europe, there's only one "breeder" where 30-40 puppies born every year, but I think as a dog-factory of his/her kennel, just like some other people.
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Old 23-11-2011, 06:52   #48
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In Central Europe, there's only one "breeder" where 30-40 puppies born every year, but I think as a dog-factory of his/her kennel, just like some other people.
Shame on you!
I do not even speak the your position ...
Stay more silently...
You would be better, and we also
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Old 23-11-2011, 17:24   #49
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Shame on you!
I do not even speak the your position ...
Stay more silently...
You would be better, and we also
I don't know what you're writing about, I neither wrote a name nor I suggested to it. And it wasn't me who brought up this topic.
Central Europe is rather big. But this also means you know more about it than me.
Sure you're not who we're suggesting for, because you're not a breeder. You got the von Hause Norky name from me took, and my son made your webpage too.
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Old 23-11-2011, 18:51   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monita View Post
I don't know what you're writing about, I neither wrote a name nor I suggested to it. And it wasn't me who brought up this topic.
Central Europe is rather big. But this also means you know more about it than me.
Sure you're not who we're suggesting for, because you're not a breeder. You got the von Hause Norky name from me took, and my son made your webpage too.
My website Your son is not made​​,new address long time.
We speak about who is the breeders and who does not....
You can criticize everyone....
You are the perfect breeding,and perfect for dogs!!! ))
I could tell about you and you interesting things...

But this many people know so is unnecessary....
And if I can see:
you are not registered breeders on this page...Whether why is that?
Once you find your man ...
Until then, good luck of your "breeders" work!!!!
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Old 23-11-2011, 21:02   #51
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I herewith ask you kindly to stop your private "Hungarian War", I'm not interested in who did whose website...
There are many breeders in so called Central Europe breeding 30-40 dogs a year. Poland, France, Italy, Czech Republic, ....

But that's not the topic.
The topic is that some stud dog owners ask, especially in Italy and France, for ridiculously high fees.
Dogs often without bonitation or endurance test.
Only with meaningless titles from unimportant dog shows.

Cheers,
Michael
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Old 23-11-2011, 21:56   #52
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Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post
I herewith ask you kindly to stop your private "Hungarian War", I'm not interested in who did whose website...
There are many breeders in so called Central Europe breeding 30-40 dogs a year. Poland, France, Italy, Czech Republic, ....

But that's not the topic.
The topic is that some stud dog owners ask, especially in Italy and France, for ridiculously high fees.
Dogs often without bonitation or endurance test.
Only with meaningless titles from unimportant dog shows.

Cheers,
Michael
I agree 100%, well said!
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Old 24-11-2011, 12:28   #53
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Originally Posted by *Satu View Post
I Finland we can use one female only 4 times in life time. ( other country you can make litter in every year)
In Finland you can breed with ill, dysplatic dogs (HD-D).
Also the registration of dogs with falsed pedigrees is possible.

As you can see - nobody is perfect....
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Old 24-11-2011, 12:38   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowlands View Post
We wrer given such a wide range of prices, it was unbelievable . From the very reasonable flat 500 Euros to 1500 Euros plus 50 per living pup (we had 9 pups last time!). The argument made for some of the fees was that it was the price of a puppy - well, maybe in their country it was, but certainly not here in Bulgaria .

As someone has already mentioned, there are no rules governing this fee - a price is given and if you don't like it, use a different stud. It's as easy as that.
Exactly... Everybody can ask his/her own prices... Even if some prices are ridiculous....

The highest prices I get was 1500EUR in France (mating with a dog which is not even a pure CsW ). For a friend I was asking for a price the owner of poor quality dog (but with good pedigree) from Slovakia - it was 200EUR for a pupy....


Personally I do not accept any flat prices. I have very bad experiences with it - there are several cases known were flat prices asked owners of sterile dogs because they were sure they will not earn any money if they will ask the price basing on the number of puppies born....


But to be honest - ONLY the breeder decides which dog he/she will use. The show titles are not important for any serious breeder because they say NOTHING about the quality of the dog. In many cases dogs without any show results are MUCH better than the World and European Winners.
And there are many nice and interesting dogs. If someone is asking stupid price for covering there is really no problem to use other - as good or maybe even better dog - for mating....
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Old 24-11-2011, 12:46   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z Peronówki View Post
In Finland you can breed with ill, dysplatic dogs (HD-D).
Also the registration of dogs with falsed pedigrees is possible.

As you can see - nobody is perfect....
How to prevent false registration in Poland? You can´t do nothing

You can breed also whit ill dogs. There is many illnes where you can´t have any tests... But HD-D is bad.
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Old 24-11-2011, 12:46   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monita View Post
I haven't got any reply for the question I asked. If someone doesn't want to reply in public, I promise I won't post it anywhere if (s)he sends me the price in e-mail ([email protected]).
I see no problem with it - it is 100EUR for every puppy which will survive more than 2 weeks.
Males have HD, ED, DM, dwarfish test, working exams, bonitation and show titles.

The same price ask our German friends and the same prices I heard in many other countries.

Very fair in my opinion....
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Old 24-11-2011, 12:59   #57
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How to prevent false registration in Poland? You can´t do nothing
In Poland it is enough that I write a protest to our Kennel Club if I think that a litter have fake pedigree and the breeder is FORCED to make the DNA tests of the puppies (It is because the kennel club must follow the FCI breeding rules and is responsible for validity of the pedigrees.).

If I'm right the puppies loose the pedigrees. If I'm wrong I must pay for the DNA tests... Easy

It is why no mixes will be ever bred in Poland...

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Originally Posted by *Satu View Post
You can breed also whit ill dogs. There is many illnes where you can´t have any tests... But HD-D is bad.
Yes and no...
If there are rules in Poland they are: you can breed only with HD-A, HD-B and HD-C dogs and one of the parent must be HD-free.
Rules are made by the breed club which do not exist in PL at the moment.

It is why nobody breed with HD-D and HD-E dogs here. BUT it is possible to hide the results in the moment and to breed with not-tested dogs. And some breeders even do this. If the resuts are bad you can hide them - it is why you can not see HD-results by some Polish dogs. Look on the pedigree of Basior and the missing results of Clif and Beatris. It is the most famous Polish case because the breeders published the results of all their dogs with those two exceptions...
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Old 24-11-2011, 18:21   #58
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Is the norm to charge a fee per pup? Or just a flat fee? Is the fee payable even if No pups are born?

I was pleasantly surprised when I mated my bitch (not a CsV) that the stud fee was only payable *if* puppies were born.

This was for a fantastic dog who is a WT Ch.

Just being nosy
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Old 24-11-2011, 18:57   #59
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The show titles are not important for any serious breeder because they say NOTHING about the quality of the dog. In many cases dogs without any show results are MUCH better than the World and European Winners.
And there are many nice and interesting dogs.
Totally true!
A serious breeder mainly should look at genetically interesting lines to combine. Protecting the fragile gene pool, for instance and the health and character aspect. Focussing on champion titles is old economy, shortsighted. Fortunately there are several breeders who understand this, but unfortunately too many do not.... Often an interesting stud dog does not live close at the door.

The excessive use of champions has already brought many races to the edge of the abyss from health / genetic point of view. Don't get me wrong. I'm not against shows. I see it more as opportunities to see several dogs of our beautiful breed and in order to exchange views and chat with their owners. Show results don't tell me much. There are many dogs that have never been to a show, but are very interesting as Margo says. Also the impartiality at shows or competence of the judges is often very questionable.

Last edited by buidelwolf; 24-11-2011 at 19:10.
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Old 25-11-2011, 11:22   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z Peronówki View Post
In Poland it is enough that I write a protest to our Kennel Club if I think that a litter have fake pedigree and the breeder is FORCED to make the DNA tests of the puppies (It is because the kennel club must follow the FCI breeding rules and is responsible for validity of the pedigrees.).

If I'm right the puppies loose the pedigrees. If I'm wrong I must pay for the DNA tests... Easy

It is why no mixes will be ever bred in Poland...



Yes and no...
If there are rules in Poland they are: you can breed only with HD-A, HD-B and HD-C dogs and one of the parent must be HD-free.
Rules are made by the breed club which do not exist in PL at the moment.

It is why nobody breed with HD-D and HD-E dogs here. BUT it is possible to hide the results in the moment and to breed with not-tested dogs. And some breeders even do this. If the resuts are bad you can hide them - it is why you can not see HD-results by some Polish dogs. Look on the pedigree of Basior and the missing results of Clif and Beatris. It is the most famous Polish case because the breeders published the results of all their dogs with those two exceptions...
If I look Baron spod Dumbiera´s pedigree there is very many dog whit out HD results, there is no any ED results. Same is Ikala and Elys.

Still dog is more than HD or ED results. You can´t find any info about liver problems in Slovakia or Epilepsy or Spondylos or CHARATER problems.
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Last edited by *Satu; 25-11-2011 at 11:24. Reason: typo
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