working dog ? I hope.

[Navarre]

some questions (a poll?)

- could be the CSW considered a "working dog" ?

- for who has tried to train it : which it is the most large problem that you have gone trough ?

- is FCI group 1 (sheepdog!) the right group for CSW, or the right group should be, for example, group 5 ?

of this thing already it has been discussed on an italian mailing list...ulterior opinions on the argument would be appreciated


sorry for my english...is from...google!

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Navarre

- could be the CSW considered a "working dog" ?

Sure. During our work with CSWs we never had any bigger problem than other working dog owners...

Originally Posted by Navarre

- for who has tried to train it : which it is the most large problem that you have gone trough ?

Aport and barking. You have to be very inventive in both cases...
If you work on higher level (competitions and championships) there is also a problem with motivation of a CSW - they never work for nothing...

Originally Posted by Navarre

- is FCI group 1 (sheepdog!) the right group for CSW, or the right group should be, for example, group 5 ?

No. Group 5 has nothing to do with CSW - nordic breeds have different origin, different character, different utilization and different appearance. CSW are also not primitive breed.
It sounds funny but the are good sherherd dogs...

[Navarre]

Originally Posted by Margot

Aport and barking. You have to be very inventive in both cases...

Barking for our seems to be not a problem....but aport is a weird thing! At our home he brings back EVERYTHING we launch at him....but at the training field he seems another dog , watching our launches with interrogative expression

Originally Posted by Margot

If you work on higher level (competitions and championships) there is also a problem with motivation of a CSW - they never work for nothing...

wurstel,meat,chicken...sometimes play. The key seems to vary the motivations. constriction don't function at all with our CSW. We are training him for IPO 1.

Originally Posted by Margot

No. Group 5 has nothing to do with CSW

we think so too.

Originally Posted by Margot

It sounds funny but the are good sherherd dogs...

but there are some csw working as sheperd dog ? In too many CSW we look a prey instinct very very strong...

[mijke]

but there are some csw working as sheperd dog ? In too many CSW we look a prey instinct very very strong...

My dog has no prey instinct to our sheeps because of a bad experience with a Greek ram when she was 9 weeks old She is very friendly to them and we 'll never give her a chance to change this behaviour

Aport and barking. You have to be very inventive in both cases...
If you work on higher level (competitions and championships) there is also a problem with motivation of a CSW - they never work for nothing...

Till this evening I did agree completely.But sometimes even TsW's have miracles that I don't understand My dog Chezka did a normal apport, a play apport and a search apport without any reward, as the fasted one of the whole training group (like it was her normal dayly work!)

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Navarre

Barking for our seems to be not a problem....

You mean barking on command or barking during the protection work?
In the first case it looks horrible: most CzW see no sence to bark without any good reason. (I fully agree with them.... ) And learn them to do it is long and hard work.

In the second case: barking during the protection work is not a bigger problem. OK, sometimes you will meet a very resistant dog (like our Merry Bell ) - she never makes any bigger noise. We own also a GSD-mix which is barking whole day so I must say I like this characteristic of Bell very much but we have a hard work to do...

Originally Posted by Navarre

but aport is a weird thing! At our home he brings back EVERYTHING we launch at him....but at the training field he seems another dog , watching our launches with interrogative expression

I know it. Here you need to use the obedience instead of playing with the dog. Only then you can be sure he will aport in every situation. For a long time people said: it's almost impossible to learn a CzW to aport. Last year only ONE CzW among ten did the aport during the exams in Lazne Belohrad. But the people also learn. And with better knowledge about training the dogs they also come to a conclusion: "it is possible if you know how to do it". And this year only ONE dog among 10 making the ZOP exam get 0 point for aport....

Originally Posted by Margot

wurstel,meat,chicken...sometimes play. The key seems to vary the motivations. constriction don't function at all with our CSW. We are training him for IPO 1.

I fully agree with you. "Diversity" of the motivations is one of the main ways to have a nice working CzW.

Originally Posted by Margot

but there are some csw working as sheperd dog ? In too many CSW we look a prey instinct very very strong...

It is strong but you can control it. But it depend on the way of socialization and upbringing the dog. If you get the CzW used to animals and if you will forbid him to catch animals you will get a friendly CzW. There are many CzW living with cats, birds, horses, a.s.o. We have also 4 cats (they hate only Bolton ). We have a small herd of goats. I already used Merry Bell to graze them - it was working and it was funny. But I will not call Merry a shepherd dog - for this work you need special training and the dog should grow up among the herd. Merry Bell is just a Sunday shepherd...

[Navarre]

Originally Posted by Margo

You mean barking on command or barking during the protection work?

barking on command...was not so hard...first times he barked for "request" (food, play), now nearly always only on command.

but now we are tryng to teach him to howl on command very harder to learn (and so useless...but so funny )

Originally Posted by Margo

Here you need to use the obedience instead of playing with the dog.
...
...
And this year only ONE dog among 10 making the ZOP exam get 0 point for aport....

this thing give us hope !

Originally Posted by Margot

There are many CzW living with cats, birds, horses, a.s.o. We have also 4 cats (they hate only Bolton ).

unfortunately between our dog and "our" cat the war is open.....

[z Peronówki]

Originally Posted by Navarre

barking on command...was not so hard...first times he barked for "request" (food, play), now nearly always only on command.

WOW - you are very lucky CzW owners....

Originally Posted by Navarre

but now we are tryng to teach him to howl on command

We also tried it - now we are able to encourage our CzWs to howl but we need a lot of exercises to teach them to howl on command...

Originally Posted by Navarre

this thing give us hope !

Remember: a CzW owner never gives up....

Originally Posted by Navarre

unfortunately between our dog and "our" cat the war is open.....

I'm sure the cat is guilty of it...

[mijke]

navarre schreef

but now we are tryng to teach him to howl on command )

I was able to teach my Newfoundlanders and Leonbergers to howl on command (and I can assure you this is very funny when you do this with them outside a campingplace in the evening! )

But with my CsW's I am still trying to teach them, they now only howl when they hear a real wolf on tv!

margo schreef:

We also tried it - now we are able to encourage our CzWs to howl but we need a lot of exercises to teach them to howl on command...

I heard this during the meeting weekend in Pozna! It was fanstastic, and it was also the best alarm clock!

navarre schreef:

unfortunately between our dog and "our" cat the war is open

I recognise this very well
One of my CsW's is always playing with our cat (since she was 6 weeks she was used to a cat) But the other one every time thinks the hunting season is open!
But since a few days there seems to be a armistice

Maybe it came because of the correction of me on the right moment, while in the same time the cat did give him one big scratch. since that time they ignore eachother

greetings
mijke