HD results

Hanka · 22-05-2009, 12:04

Hello friends. I have question. Do you belive to all results of HD what are publiced here on wolfdog? What do you mean about central database (gallery) of these fotos? Scanned X-ray fotos? Everybody can see it and measure it.
Is it possible to make good databese from X-ray fotos? Or is it out from our technical posibilites?

massimo · 22-05-2009, 13:35

Some time ago Margo said that only HD with official results (sent to her) would be posted.
I'm not sure this has been applied yet.
If she confirms this will be done, then it's up to us to believe in Margo's site or not...so the belief passes from the HD results to Margo.
I have no reason not to believe her, once she confirms it.

She also said that litters with dogs with HD results would be advertised, and this is actually happening today.
massimo

woland77 · 22-05-2009, 13:38

Great Hanka, in Italy is possible to ask the photo at the central, i agree with this idea. Ever we don't know if HD A, form Czech is the same of HD A of Italy or Poland. With the photo the breeder can valutate real condition, and comparate!

woland77 · 22-05-2009, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

Or is it out from our technical posibilites?

I think is possible!

on this link, sorry is italian, is explane how to measure Norber-Olsson degrees measure

http://www.notonlyblack.org/health/d...orberg_olsson/

Hanka · 22-05-2009, 13:43

Yes Massimo, I know. But I think, in some countries

is measuring very "soft". So, for me is much much better to see foto by my own eyes. I want use only males, what have result, what I can belive......I hope you know what I mean.

massimo · 22-05-2009, 13:49

oh yes...now i understand what you mean...if Official results should be trusted, so neither WD or Margo but the actual HD examinator.
Sorry I'm no vet and I don't feel I have enough experience.

woland77 · 22-05-2009, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

Yes Massimo, I know. But I think, in some countries

is measuring very "soft". So, for me is much much better to see foto by my own eyes. I want use only males, what have result, what I can belive......I hope you know what I mean.

Yes, it is known that a grade A from the Czech Republic that is more than a grade A from Italy.. i agree with you,is better than the breeder, especially when using non-secure lines on HD, it should choose the stud-dog based on the photo about x-ray!

wolfin · 22-05-2009, 13:59

Hanka, but who help this rtg foto in WD galery? You be expert for HD examination? or Massimo? or Woland? In Lithuania rtg foto have only vet and LKD not owner. In this case we not cann send this rtg foto to this galery only results.
I know, Margo thake to data basa only rtg results when have hes copy, not worts but mas send skan results with pedigree.
If You think about this " not polish HD A is this same like Italian or Czech HD A" mas about this send to FCI and speak oficial about bad others veterinar who not cann make this HD exams.
I think IF vet have licenzion for examination and this be FCI OFICIAL licenzion all is ok. Or You think only CZ wets be the best in world?

Mikael · 22-05-2009, 14:29

I think it is a very bad idea...

First I do not se the point at all, if you have a official HD result it will be added, and if a buyer or breeder wonts to se the x-ray they can ask for it...

If you are not satesfied whit a C/C you can send the X-ray to FCI...

Second the risk for bad quality and for cheating is to big...

Even today kennels are trying to putt up unofficial results as officiall

Whit a system like that it will get worse

Best regards / Mikael

*Satu · 22-05-2009, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikael

If you are not satesfied whit a C/C you can send the X-ray to FCI...

FCI doesn´t care about x-ray results.

In finland you can but your photos FKL panel and after that Nordic KennelUnion panel but in FIN database you can read what happend.

And there is no results from outside FIN....

massimo · 22-05-2009, 14:53

Mikael,
Hanka's idea is not as bad as you think...
if you consider it on a wide scale of course it makes no sense as we cannot help trusting the professional and authorised vets who read the HD xrays
BUT... and this depends on the consciousness of each breeder, if you have a doubt on a male you want to use as a stud, or on the parents of the puppy you plan to buy...
Then all you have to do is ASK for a copy of the xrays (if possible) and ask for a second advice.
Easy!
massimo

massimo · 22-05-2009, 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfin

You be expert for HD examination? or Massimo?

oh no..not me!!
I can help you with wine if you want! (or female beauty...)

Vaiva · 22-05-2009, 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

Yes Massimo, I know. But I think, in some countries

is measuring very "soft". So, for me is much much better to see foto by my own eyes. I want use only males, what have result, what I can belive......I hope you know what I mean.

So if you are interested in a concrete stud, you can contact his owner directly and ask

wolfin · 22-05-2009, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by massimo

oh no..not me!!
I can help you with wine if you want! (or female beauty...)

hmm, I think about this

Mikael · 22-05-2009, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by massimo

Mikael,
Hanka's idea is not as bad as you think...
if you consider it on a wide scale of course it makes no sense as we cannot help trusting the professional and authorised vets who read the HD xrays
BUT... and this depends on the consciousness of each breeder, if you have a doubt on a male you want to use as a stud, or on the parents of the puppy you plan to buy...
Then all you have to do is ASK for a copy of the xrays (if possible) and ask for a second advice.
Easy!
massimo

I think like Vaiva if you are interested in a stud, way not just ask the owner for the x-ray ???

I se no point to do all this work for nothing

, an A is an A and a B is a B and so one, way let people that is not expert on X-ray say something else ??? if you are not satesfied you can complain your official results...

This will only open the door for unserius breeders and breeding.

Best regards / Mikael

Hanka · 22-05-2009, 19:08

hello Daiva, some answers:
Hanka, but who help this rtg foto in WD galery?
I think, it can be very willing. for example: I am sure, my male has perfect HD result, so I can show it to all breeders.

You be expert for HD examination?
What is expert? I am not veterinar doctor with certificate for HD results, but I belive to my eyes and I am not stupid. I have at home ruler and scribing compass. I am breeder longer time and I know something about it.

In Lithuania rtg foto have only vet and LKD not owner. In this case we not cann send this rtg foto to this galery only results.
Yes, here too. But everybody can have two fotos from one visit by doctor.

If You think about this " not polish HD A is this same like Italian or Czech HD A" mas about this send to FCI and speak oficial about bad others veterinar who not cann make this HD exams.
yes, I am sure, polish, italian or czech results ARE NOT the same. I know it on 100%. And I think, much people know it. (we have some cases)

I think IF vet have licenzion for examination and this be FCI OFICIAL licenzion all is ok.
Yes, it is OK. But we know, the results are veyr different. Not in all cases, but very often.

Or You think only CZ wets be the best in world?

No, you told it. Not me

I know much owners of males, what keep in secret some defects of their males, what are not for example in bonitation code. Very often it is defect on teeth, bad rtg (they have not oficial result), etc. On fotos they are dogs NUMBER ONE. But in real.......
I am sure, you know some this owners too.
So for me is very important to see maximum on dogs, to know maximum about next father of pups from my kennel.....
I don´t want see him first time in time of mateing, when I visit him with female.

__________________

wolfin · 22-05-2009, 19:17

In this case speak with reproductor owner - when wish have all info and hes wish mate your female he make ALLS for this mate.
I think this not make problems owners this male who wish You used.

Hanka · 22-05-2009, 20:20

No, I know it is not problem to answer me. But every owner of female for example sits by PC and looks on much males. Will he ask every owner? Me no. I want have maximum info from first looking on male (his gallery, his database, his web, etc....)
I want give this foto (scann) of my male on my web too. But in this moment I try to have qualite scann of it. But I want to be fair to all other breeders, so on web I have maximum info about my male.
look:
http://wolfdog.wbs.cz/Quenno_od_UhosteENG9.html

massimo · 22-05-2009, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanka

No, I know it is not problem to answer me. But every owner of female for example sits by PC and looks on much males. Will he ask every owner? Me no. I want have maximum info from first looking on male (his gallery, his database, his web, etc....)
I want give this foto (scann) of my male on my web too. But in this moment I try to have qualite scann of it. But I want to be fair to all other breeders, so on web I have maximum info about my male.
look:
http://wolfdog.wbs.cz/Quenno_od_UhosteENG9.html

Hanka, i don't see the xrays on your site...
Maybe , considering all the discussions you made, you should put them!

wolfin · 22-05-2009, 21:12

Nice reklam

but not place in forum make this for self's breed dog.

And if have this type thema, I say who I think :
but I not see rtg skan in Yours web site. and I not know this is bite Yours dog or not in this foto

22-05-2009, 12:04	#1
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	HD results Hello friends. I have question. Do you belive to all results of HD what are publiced here on wolfdog? What do you mean about central database (gallery) of these fotos? Scanned X-ray fotos? Everybody can see it and measure it. Is it possible to make good databese from X-ray fotos? Or is it out from our technical posibilites?

22-05-2009, 13:35	#2
massimo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Prague 6 Posts: 2,090	Some time ago Margo said that only HD with official results (sent to her) would be posted. I'm not sure this has been applied yet. If she confirms this will be done, then it's up to us to believe in Margo's site or not...so the belief passes from the HD results to Margo. I have no reason not to believe her, once she confirms it. She also said that litters with dogs with HD results would be advertised, and this is actually happening today. massimo __________________ ---------- Oliver & Lunatica

22-05-2009, 13:38	#3
woland77 Gran figl de putt Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,638	Great Hanka, in Italy is possible to ask the photo at the central, i agree with this idea. Ever we don't know if HD A, form Czech is the same of HD A of Italy or Poland. With the photo the breeder can valutate real condition, and comparate! __________________ IO CE L'HO PROFUMATO

22-05-2009, 13:49	#6
massimo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Prague 6 Posts: 2,090	oh yes...now i understand what you mean...if Official results should be trusted, so neither WD or Margo but the actual HD examinator. Sorry I'm no vet and I don't feel I have enough experience. __________________ ---------- Oliver & Lunatica

22-05-2009, 13:59	#8
wolfin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Where the wolf lives Posts: 6,095	Hanka, but who help this rtg foto in WD galery? You be expert for HD examination? or Massimo? or Woland? In Lithuania rtg foto have only vet and LKD not owner. In this case we not cann send this rtg foto to this galery only results. I know, Margo thake to data basa only rtg results when have hes copy, not worts but mas send skan results with pedigree. If You think about this " not polish HD A is this same like Italian or Czech HD A" mas about this send to FCI and speak oficial about bad others veterinar who not cann make this HD exams. I think IF vet have licenzion for examination and this be FCI OFICIAL licenzion all is ok. Or You think only CZ wets be the best in world? __________________

22-05-2009, 13:43	#5
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	Yes Massimo, I know. But I think, in some countries is measuring very "soft". So, for me is much much better to see foto by my own eyes. I want use only males, what have result, what I can belive......I hope you know what I mean.

22-05-2009, 14:29	#9
Mikael Scandinavian Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Stockholm Posts: 1,089	I think it is a very bad idea... First I do not se the point at all, if you have a official HD result it will be added, and if a buyer or breeder wonts to se the x-ray they can ask for it... If you are not satesfied whit a C/C you can send the X-ray to FCI... Second the risk for bad quality and for cheating is to big... Even today kennels are trying to putt up unofficial results as officiall Whit a system like that it will get worse Best regards / Mikael __________________ _________________________________________________ Hronec, Rasty, Zilja Kennel, Wolfdog of Sweden* http://kennelwolfdogofsweden.vpsite.se/Home.html http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wolfdo...53067971392916 Last edited by Mikael; 22-05-2009 at 16:43. Reason: text error

22-05-2009, 14:53	#11
massimo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Prague 6 Posts: 2,090	Mikael, Hanka's idea is not as bad as you think... if you consider it on a wide scale of course it makes no sense as we cannot help trusting the professional and authorised vets who read the HD xrays BUT... and this depends on the consciousness of each breeder, if you have a doubt on a male you want to use as a stud, or on the parents of the puppy you plan to buy... Then all you have to do is ASK for a copy of the xrays (if possible) and ask for a second advice. Easy! massimo __________________ ---------- Oliver & Lunatica

22-05-2009, 19:08	#16
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	hello Daiva, some answers: Hanka, but who help this rtg foto in WD galery? I think, it can be very willing. for example: I am sure, my male has perfect HD result, so I can show it to all breeders. You be expert for HD examination? What is expert? I am not veterinar doctor with certificate for HD results, but I belive to my eyes and I am not stupid. I have at home ruler and scribing compass. I am breeder longer time and I know something about it. In Lithuania rtg foto have only vet and LKD not owner. In this case we not cann send this rtg foto to this galery only results. Yes, here too. But everybody can have two fotos from one visit by doctor. If You think about this " not polish HD A is this same like Italian or Czech HD A" mas about this send to FCI and speak oficial about bad others veterinar who not cann make this HD exams. yes, I am sure, polish, italian or czech results ARE NOT the same. I know it on 100%. And I think, much people know it. (we have some cases) I think IF vet have licenzion for examination and this be FCI OFICIAL licenzion all is ok. Yes, it is OK. But we know, the results are veyr different. Not in all cases, but very often. Or You think only CZ wets be the best in world? No, you told it. Not me I know much owners of males, what keep in secret some defects of their males, what are not for example in bonitation code. Very often it is defect on teeth, bad rtg (they have not oficial result), etc. On fotos they are dogs NUMBER ONE. But in real....... I am sure, you know some this owners too. So for me is very important to see maximum on dogs, to know maximum about next father of pups from my kennel..... I don´t want see him first time in time of mateing, when I visit him with female. __________________

22-05-2009, 19:17	#17
wolfin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Where the wolf lives Posts: 6,095	In this case speak with reproductor owner - when wish have all info and hes wish mate your female he make ALLS for this mate. I think this not make problems owners this male who wish You used. __________________

22-05-2009, 20:20	#18
Hanka Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Kadaň Posts: 1,622	No, I know it is not problem to answer me. But every owner of female for example sits by PC and looks on much males. Will he ask every owner? Me no. I want have maximum info from first looking on male (his gallery, his database, his web, etc....) I want give this foto (scann) of my male on my web too. But in this moment I try to have qualite scann of it. But I want to be fair to all other breeders, so on web I have maximum info about my male. look: http://wolfdog.wbs.cz/Quenno_od_UhosteENG9.html

22-05-2009, 21:12	#20
wolfin Moderator Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Where the wolf lives Posts: 6,095	Nice reklam but not place in forum make this for self's breed dog. And if have this type thema, I say who I think : but I not see rtg skan in Yours web site. and I not know this is bite Yours dog or not in this foto __________________