Wolfdogs the kid killers

[Nebulosa]

http://www.leerburg.com/wolfcross.htm

RIDICULOUS

And he had used an CZW foto as a "exemple" of a hibrid, has generalise putting that all wolfdogs are man killers, more ridiculous is know that he say that is a dog treineer.


Greetings



Paula

[Dharkwolf]

Actually... I think I know that dog...

[Natalya]

Yes, it's a well-known wolfdog, that photo is taken from our site. I've wrote to the owner.

[Mosi]

maybe someone should give this guy some czechoslovaskian wolfdog bite statistics.
Has there even been a reported attack yet?
No doubt the 'friendly' family labrador is statistically more dangerous. Ive seen some awefully bad dogs in my time, yet none of them are the stereotypical bad dogs.

Im actually worried about this guys idiocy and complete lack of knowledge. He considers him self an expert? what a load of bull!

What a total idiot.

[Per Olav]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

http://www.leerburg.com/wolfcross.htm

RIDICULOUS

And he had used an CZW foto as a "exemple" of a hibrid, has generalise putting that all wolfdogs are man killers, more ridiculous is know that he say that is a dog treineer.


Greetings



Paula

Combining a photo of a csv with this kind of information might be cruzial for the struggle against the Norwegian ban of the csv as well as the Swedish kennel klubs reservation to register the csv in the Swedish kennel klub.
The photo must be removed from this web-page.
--
Per Olav

[Joswolf]

So he is not allowd to use the foto, i asume? Then forbid him. Most bite exedences happen by German Shephard and Belgian Shephards. And what thous this guy breed and sell?
Jos

[Koos]

Hello,

Why allways the German Shepherd and the Belgium Shepherds.

A few years ago, the bite accidents came from the Golden and Labrador retrevers because "breeders" had lists of people which wanted to have a Golden or A Labrador and didn't take care of the healthness and characters of these breeds.
They have maked a lot of money withe their breeds but a good German Shepherd of Belguim one is a stable dog and bite accidents are rare accidents.

Letty

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by KoosLetydeGraaff

Hello,

Why allways the German Shepherd and the Belgium Shepherds.

Letty

I do not know about the Belgian shepherd, but it is true about the German shepherds. There is really a lot of bites by them, simply because it is one of the most world-spread breed. There is many of them and unfortunatelly also many of them without pedigree. The more people want GSDs, the more there is producers of such puppies, and of course, which one of them cares about the character or health of the parents..

GSD´s without pedigree are often given for free or for symbolic price, I´ve seen GSD pups (non pedigree) for 500-800 Kc in Czech republic. (1 euro is now 28Kc). That´s nothing and this way, anyone who wants big dog can get GSD, no matter if they have experiences or abilities to manage the dog. So the number of bite accidents is higher and simply corresponds with the amount of GSDs.

It would be hard to have high number of bites from let´s say kuvasz, as it is special breed and not really known. Therefore the breeding is more controled, the owners usually know what they are getting and how to educate and keep such dog.

[nanouk]

Originally Posted by Nebulosa

http://www.leerburg.com/wolfcross.htm

RIDICULOUS

And he had used an CZW foto as a "exemple" of a hibrid, has generalise putting that all wolfdogs are man killers, more ridiculous is know that he say that is a dog treineer.


Greetings



Paula

to be honoust, i am not really shocked by the text... It's the other (extreme) site of the medal. It doesn't consern the TWD (though that image must be removed) but most americans don't even know where to find fe holland or germany, let alone know a relatively rare breed as the TWD, and the TWD is not a hybrid, but a fully recognised dogbreed!

I myself am fully aware of the care a hybrid needs and what risks come with it, i fear that a lot of people don't even manage to raise fe a Golden to be a social loving pet, what do you think happens when the get infected by the hype of wanting a wolfdog and by a hybrid.

In politics bad incident with hybrids will reflect on the recognised wolfdog breeds, and yrs of selective breeding,creating a good image, can be put into a negative light by postordered hybrids, with uncertain heritage!

[Joswolf]

Dear Letty, the bite accedents caused by Golden Retrievers where mostly caused by a dissease called Rage Syndrome.
This did cause a bad name to this breed. That's why breeders and clubs of wolfdogs have a responsibility cause it is easy to get a bad name. Wolfdogs will not quick attack but if they do they have the tools to dammage badly. OK just like lot of other dogs. Real , or direct wolfdogs or hybrides do easy give dominance problems so coult give the owner a problem if you do not be a good alpha. A wolf would follow his instinc and take over the control. A normal dog cares less. I mean a socialised animal, a normal wolf would just run away.
Jos de Bruin
wolves unlimited

[Nebulosa]

All dogs are dangerous, a Canichen can make serious damaged or kill one small child as one Neapolitan mastiff can kill one strong man without more problems.
One Wolf hibrid isn't more dangerous than one dominant good "sized" dog and this includes the GSD.
Not exist one murderous breed, exist breeds that unhapply enter in the fashion and end in wrong hands, this is independent of the animal ( not alone dogs) all animals that fall in disprepared hands has a great probability to cause some accident.

I can wrote here one excelent exemple, the breed American pit bull Terrier, one breed selected for fight with dogs and be easy handled for humans without show aggressiveness exactly in the most hards moments, because this selection its not make a good guard dog, before the popularization its was one of the best breeds for pet and principally for who have childrens, after popularizing this breed receive the fame of killer, crazy, not trustworthy, make for kill humans ( yes, I have listen this too).

The people talk about bite statistics, I really not believe in this, some small dogs bite and not enter in this statistics because the victim normally not give atention, is much more easy and common one little dog bite than a good sized dog because the strong or big dog normally not lead as an attack an infantile trick, a small dog hurts more easily and finishes attacking thinking that a more brusque joke is an attack.
Now, the breed that more bite, is alone see what is the more fashion little breed? here is the Yorkshire terrier, probably will be this breed.

Originally Posted by joswolf

wolfdogs or hybrides do easy give dominance problems so coult give the owner a problem if you do not be a good alpha. A wolf would follow his instinc and take over the control. A normal dog cares less.

Have dog breeds that are more dominant than one wolf that need more of the owner than one wolf, but that can be too much dangerous because they aren't shyness as one wolf.

Originally Posted by Nanouk

i fear that a lot of people don't even manage to raise fe a Golden to be a social loving pet, what do you think happens when the get infected by the hype of wanting a wolfdog and by a hybrid.

Exactly, and this is not alone with the hybrids and Wolfdogs, but with all fashion breeds, I remember that the breed siberian husky suffer before arrive the wolf hybrids here, al people that was want a "wolf" had buy one Siberian husky with the eyes closed, withou nor know the name of the breed, result was equal to some huskys and mix die in the street or in the CCZs ( here the public kennels, called for the people as "Concentration camps" ).

I can say with certainly, not exist bad breeds, exist stupid and disprepared owners, if the dog attack one person, its alone make that have learn with its owner in its life, the dog is one mirror of the owner, the guilty ever has that to be the owner.

greetings

paula

[nanouk]

I got to say that i am very pleased to see how quicly after receiving mails he took the TWD image off his site

[johnslawek]

Nanouk wrote: to be honoust, i am not really shocked by the text... It's the other (extreme) site of the medal. It doesn't consern the TWD (though that image must be removed) but most americans don't even know where to find fe holland or germany, let alone know a relatively rare breed as the TWD, and the TWD is not a hybrid, but a fully recognised dogbreed!

I can only assume that Nanouk makes reference to North Americans. And, as such, I recognize and understand an immature mind at work. If one desires to be truly honest, the adolescent, pejorative comment offered by Nanouk concerning Americans is as inane as the misuse of the CSW photo.

Generally comments on this fine site should remain objective to the subject, namely four legged creatures not two. In this instance one realizes that exceptions sometimes exist and should be addressed. Thus Nanouk is the exception to the rule.

[Nebulosa]

Originally Posted by nanouk

I got to say that i am very pleased to see how quicly after receiving mails he took the TWD image off his site

Excellent!

Now, alone lack he talk that exist 2 dog breed that comes from the hibridism but are a dog breed reconigzed by FCI with estable temperament , yes yes, I know this is want much

Originally Posted by johnslawek

I can only assume that Nanouk makes reference to North Americans. And, as such, I recognize and understand an immature mind at work. If one desires to be truly honest, the adolescent, pejorative comment offered by Nanouk concerning Americans is as inane as the misuse of the CSW photo.

Generally comments on this fine site should remain objective to the subject, namely four legged creatures not two. In this instance one realizes that exceptions sometimes exist and should be addressed. Thus Nanouk is the exception to the rule.

I not reading "North Americans" nor "South americans" but alone "Americans" this can be "Central americans" too, the question is, has ignorants in all countries in the world nor alone in countries of america , I can say that some, but SOME people nor imagine that in brazil exist big cities, the Papa has impressioned when see how big is São paulo because he imagine that here alone exist florest, indians and animals, the PAPA ( that is nor one person that we can call ignorant )!!!!!!!!
Too many people, when I show the local that I live on the map, say that is Argentina or Uruguay, nor Brasil , others see Brasil alone as one hot "country at all", but isn't .
I'm certainly that the European people listen same thing about their countries come from the american people (principally) as I listen come from the out-people, and probably as you listen too.

About the CzWs, here the people say that same more one GSD with the wolf-grey coat ( more graxain-grey coat ), to many ( that know the existence of the breed), principally in the south call they as "Graxain" or "Zorro" because it's coat

Please without stress

greetings

Paula

[nanouk]

I can only assume that Nanouk makes reference to North Americans. And, as such, I recognize and understand an immature mind at work. If one desires to be truly honest, the adolescent, pejorative comment offered by Nanouk concerning Americans is as inane as the misuse of the CSW photo.

Thanks for the roses but no thanks.
My comment was based on experiences i have made working with the US military and having many american friends. ( from the continent , not limited by US borders ) It was in no way a judgement on americans, just a reflection .

@ Paula, thanks for being a flexible reader and catching the thought behind my posting more than judging it word by word

[cederic]

Hi, I'm new to wolfdogs and I have read books and stuff on the internet, when I saw this "wolfdogs the kid killer" topic I had to check it out, I saw his web page and after reading I few things there I got pissed and emailed the guy my opinion. The responce I got back was typical and funny also that he couldn't write back with any Constructive criticism about the subject instead he called me names like he does to anyone else that doesn’t agree. From his response I conclude he isn’t a professional at anything and that everyone here should email him junk mail ( 1 meg or more photo files of anything) If everyone did that he would be drowning in the stuff, I pasted below a copy of the emailing with this jerk.
His email:[email protected]

The email: Read from the bottom up so you will read it in order
I WON the bet... thanks I'm 5 bucks up now, you are so predictable. I like to play more but I got better things to write about and to do then to see how many words you can write in a day.

----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Frawley
To: 'fred'
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 8:06 AM
Subject: RE: your nuts

Fred

You’re a fucking idiot
From: fred [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 3:51 AM
To: Ed Frawley
Subject: Re: your nuts


well atleast I didn't use four letter words to respond, a tool for those that have no reasonable excuss and would like nothing better then to control others through scare tactics, atleast I'm willing to look at both sides at this issue and yours is well... just look at your responce.

real intelligent.....NOT! " I forgot more about dog aggression" what the heck does that mean???

----- Original Message -----

From: Ed Frawley

To: 'fred'

Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 10:20 PM

Subject: RE: your nuts



Fred

Pull your head out of your arrogant ass

Read the article I wrote on Pitt Bulls

I forgot more about dog aggression than a dumb fuck like you come close to knowing.


From: fred [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 9:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: your nuts


you said :My Opinion of Wolf Hybrid Crosses
aka KID KILLERS!!!!!

I don't have one and I wish I did after reading lots from the net and books on the subject, if you want to ban a dog go after the ones that are high on the killing of kids. Pit bulls to name one, Also if you got something against wolfdogs then you must hate the German Shepard since it was introduced around 90 years ago using wolfs. Humm isn't all dogs part wolf.... Well if you got to blame something blame the dum people that should never have dogs to start with and not the dog. Oh by the way I'm retired military and I want to have a real dog ( part wolf) as a partner and no one is going to take that freedom from me by people who think they know best and that don't have a open mind to anything...

Oh another correction to your statment, Hybrid is refered to dif types of animals having babies like a horse to a cow ( that would look ugly) wolfs and dogs are from the same species of animals. sort like a black man doing a white chick which is the same species. Its like saying that guns kill people not the people the shoot them. Stupid people are the direct reason that dogs kill or attack kids or other people.

enough said.............

[AMERICANI]

Hello all, I am probably the newest owner/member of this community. I purchased several videos from Ed Frawley from leerburg.com before ever stumbling upon any of this. I agree using a photo without permission is wrong. I made a concious decision to do some research and possibly return the material (who wants to supprt someone if you know they don't want to support you?). Anyhow, the man never said he was a god, and he did specify the areas of expertise, especially with police dogs. I wrote him and he had no real knowledge of the CsW as a recognized breed, nor had I until I came to Italy. I have the same views about the 1st generation North American wolf-dog crosses (hybrids). I would never reccommend to anyone this animal. The CsW is an entirely different story. From what I've read on this forum so far, everyone needs to chill and take a step back. The guy is only human, and humans aren't perfect. I plan on raisng working dogs, and I am looking up to someone with experience for guidance in this field. I am pround to be part of this community and the people I've met have been nothing less than wonderful. Please don't try to ruin someone's name because of a dumb slip-up. Looking forward to asking questions on this forum in the future as I need them.

[GalomyOak]

I am curious where you are from Americani? In the United States?