2nd bonitation in Belgium

[Mirkawolf]

Hello everyone,

I´d like to announce that on 12th October 2008, club CSW Belgium will organise again bonitation and youth presentation in Glabbeek, Belgium.

The judge invited (and confirmed) is Jindrich Jedlicka, Czech specialist on the breed, former head advisor for the breed in CR, owner of kennel Seda Eminence. The bonitation and youth presentation will be run according to Czech rules of bonitation.

For more informations, inscription forms and questions please keep checking our CSW Belgium club website, or e-mail to one of the board members.

[Pavel]

Hi,
one information only, Jndrich Jedlicka is no more member of Czech Club and have no support from club. Jindrich Jedlicka dont represent czech breed and dont judge CsW just minimally 4 years (and dont visit bonitations, youth presentations, shows and CsW meetings in CZ and SK). He dont breeding many years and only support the Mutara hybrids, on which is illegally breeding and the puppies are registrate like a CsW (according some information in Italy). The results make everybody self.

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by Pavel

Hi,
one information only, Jndrich Jedlicka is no more member of Czech Club and have no support from club. Jindrich Jedlicka dont represent czech breed and dont judge CsW just minimally 4 years (and dont visit bonitations, youth presentations, shows and CsW meetings in CZ and SK). He dont breeding many years and only support the Mutara hybrids, on which is illegally breeding and the puppies are registrate like a CsW (according some information in Italy). The results make everybody self.

We know all that Pavel. Anything else you wish to say?

On the other side, you can´t deny the fact Jindrich Jedlicka is valid international judge, he can judge the breed and has more experience with it than you or many members of the current Club board in CR, let alone most of current judges in CR. The bonitation will be run according to Czech rules, including the character test etc., and the results will be perfectly valid and comparable to any other Czech or Slovak bonitation results.

Your personal problems with Jindrich Jedlicka have nothing to do with our bonitation, and luckily we can decide perfectly freely, who to invite.

[Pavel]

Mirka, I havent any personal problems with Jedlicka . I wrote only the information, that he is just little bit "out of game", because every good judge must keep contact with breed developemnt. And if he dont visit any event in countries of origin the breed just over 4 years, am not sure about his quality, like judge for club show.

[Hanka]

Ahoj Mirka.
I don´t know if you are right. Jindrich is not in contact with club (I don´t know if he is member) and I don´t know if he knows how we do the bonitation now. I mean complete test of character (What must "figurant" do, we have test of dog in group of people,when is shutting.....). My personaly meaning is : "it will not be the same like czech bonitation", but I can´t know it, of course.

[Mirkawolf]

Dear Hanka and Pavel,
I really love how everyone is ready to criticise, but nobody cares to help. We did contact several judges in preparation to the bonitation, and only Mr.Jedlicka was free and kindly agreed to come.

Mr. Jedlicka, as far as I know, is aprooved international judge, listed on the CMKU list of international judges. You both know very well, why he is not comming to Czech club events anymore and why he refused to judge in CR. That does not mean, he does not know what is going on in the world of CSW, he does not know the standard anymore etc. And I don´t think that it is something to discuss here and now.

I really appreciate, that both of you are always ready to say, how awfull it is in western countries, that the people there do not bonitate, they do not x-ray, they do not work with the dogs, they do not do xxx. Well, we want to change it here and we would really appreciate support and help, not useless critics and complaints.

Would you really preffer, that we did the bonitation here with a judge from FR, NL, BE or whatever, Hungarian one? Somebody who does not have a clue? Would that make the results any better in your eyes? I don´t think so. So why there is problem with valid international Czech judge, specialist on the breed?

I also do not see, why the fact that Mr. Jedlicka is not comming to Czech club events should mean, that he does not know how we bonitate now. I am not a club member of KCHCSV for many years, yet I am perfectly informed on what is going on there, including the disasters our current Czech bonitation committee is able to create. I have seen certain Czech bonitation results and actions in CR, that make my head spin.

[Pavel]

Mirka,
for help is enought to contact club in CZ or SK, its all. Me is principially doesnt matter, if you choose Jedlicka or not. I inform only about actually situation. For me is doesnt matter, if belgian people would like to have e.g. canadian judge. But for real and valuable bonitation may be a really seriously judge. But of course, bonitation can, according the rules, make any national or international judge, who have right to valuate CsW.

I wish you good luck

Pavel

[Pavel]

And one fact about regsitration Jedlicka as international judge. See http://www.sky.cz/seda-eminence/, its pages of Jedlicka and see the sentence : "Do týdne požádám o vyškrtnutí ze seznamu mezinárodních rozhodčích FCI a ČMKU, zajistěte si proto včas rozhodčího na dubnovou bonitaci." Please translate fot people, which want to understand. Date of this document is 13.2.2005 !!! So that Jedlicka is "out of game" just over 5 years, not 4, as abobe written. Sorry.

[Hanka]

Hello Mirka, please read what I wrote. I don´t speak- is easy to have judges in your country, I don´t speak he does not know how must csw look, I don´t speak- you are not in contact with csw in Czech. I only write you: "MAYBE he doesn not know, how czech club do bonitation NOW". Because he was not on some czech bonitations a few years. Thats fact.

[Mirkawolf]

Pavel,

we do not need your permission or approoval to make the bonitation here, and we do not need your permission or approoval to use Mr. Jedlicka.
We did contact the Czech club in preparation for the bonitation, and this is the result - we do bonitate with this judge. The club was absolutely uninterested in helping us in any way.
I do not care what is on website of Seda Eminence kennel, what is valid for me is the current list of valid and active international judges on CMKU site.

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Pavel

for help is enought to contact club in CZ or SK, its all

Pavel, as a representative of the SR club I must say here that the Belgian club did try to appoint slovak judges, unfortunately all of them have a lot to do with slovak bonitations, slovak shows and their personal lives as well.

I think that the belgian club did choose wisely. It may be true that Jindra has personal conflict with czech club, but there is no personal conflict with other clubs and as long as he judges objectively, why shouldn't other clubs appoint him? Who do you think they should have chosen? How do you think they should have persuaded the chosen judge to come if he declined the offer?

I am personally strongly opposed to using Mutaras and their offspring in breeding of CSW, but as long as the judge gives appropriate marks, there is no reason which would disqualify him.

[Pavel]

Mirka,
again - me is doesnt matter, whats you chose in Belgium. I wrote only the facts about Jedlicka nothing more. Howg

[massimo]

As Somebody else wrote unrequested facts about Jindra, I would like to write an unrequested comment about him too.
The last time I saw him was last year in Serramazzoni Italian Club show and I think he judged Marvellously.
http://www.wolfdog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6644
(please note same things written all over the time!)

Some slovak friends were there too (Slovak friends and breeders and judges...) and their comment on Jindra's judgement was very positive.
So, an "unrequested" Congratulations to Belgim Club for the choice they made.

Massimo

[Liesbeth]

Thank you Massimo...

I can only say that the Belgian Club really tries to make things better for the breed. We try to convince people to bonitate their dogs, to X-ray their dogs, to work with their dogs, etc...
We TRY to do all those things, because we TRY to follow the rules of the clubs of origin.
We also ask a lot of advice and help of these clubs, because here in Belgium there are no specialists of the breed. Our club is only 3 years old, but our goal was to organise a bonitation every year. So people of Belgium, Holland and other countries nearby had the opportunity to bonitate their dogs, without driving 10.000km. Last year we received help from Sasha (thank you very much for that) and also from Sona Bognorova, who was willing to come to Belgium for the bonitation. This year he hoped to receive the same help, but it was difficult to find a judge willing to come. Mr.Jedlicka was so kind to volunteer and we were happy with his offer to come to Belgium for the bonitation. A specialist of the breed, a breeder himself, a good judge,...
It's difficult for me to understand why the Czech and/or Slovak club have problems with our choice for this judge (because that's how it feels like). We asked a lot of other judges and we (I must say Mirka, because she's the only one of the board who speaks the language) asked help...
Like Mirka already mentioned earlier: it's easy to give comment, but more difficult to help.
We only try to do our best. And I must admit that I'm not aware of a lot of things that happen in Czech and/or Slovak club. And I'm not aware of who's the best judge and how they judge etc... I have to trust on others to decide all those things. I have to ask advice and help of people like Sasha, Mirka and others who are willing to give me advice. But not so many people are willing to give advice... Big problem for me is the language. I know that not everyone speaks English.

So please, let us try to work together instead of not giving advise and help. It's easy to tell afterwards that things could have been better.

The only thing that matters to me, are the dogs. Not all the politics and problems in the different clubs... I hope we can still work together.

Liesbeth

[Pavel]

Dear Liesbeth,
my comment was only for clear the situation. A always ready to help, but its me very sorry, about belgian bonitation I hear first time here from this forum. If somebody contact me before, I could try to help. Eg. 3 weeks ago we have had a club conference and it was chance to discuss about it with all important people in CZ Club. But ... I didnt know about problem !!!
And about CZ/SK problems with Jedlicka - he is one of key person in the case "Mutara" which destroy the breed and he is the person, who breeding hybrids again and illegaly registrated in Italy as pure CsW. This is the reason, why CZ Club says him good bye and this is why we never more delegate Jedlicka as judge. Yes, if he dont put back his judge registration, he still be a international judge to the end of his life, doesnt matter, that dont have contact with breed development. But think, if such person is really seriously judge of breed, which try to slowly destroy.
I would like to see, that our breed developed in each contry only positive and more people know, that I was many time abroad to help and for help am always ready.

And its really last my comment to this thema.

Pavel

[Mirkawolf]

Originally Posted by Pavel

Dear Liesbeth,
my comment was only for clear the situation. A always ready to help, but its me very sorry, about belgian bonitation I hear first time here from this forum. If somebody contact me before, I could try to help. Eg. 3 weeks ago we have had a club conference and it was chance to discuss about it with all important people in CZ Club. But ... I didnt know about problem !!!
And about CZ/SK problems with Jedlicka - he is one of key person in the case "Mutara" which destroy the breed and he is the person, who breeding hybrids again and illegaly registrated in Italy as pure CsW. This is the reason, why CZ Club says him good bye and this is why we never more delegate Jedlicka as judge. Yes, if he dont put back his judge registration, he still be a international judge to the end of his life, doesnt matter, that dont have contact with breed development. But think, if such person is really seriously judge of breed, which try to slowly destroy.
I would like to see, that our breed developed in each contry only positive and more people know, that I was many time abroad to help and for help am always ready.

And its really last my comment to this thema.

Pavel

Aha. Let me bring some light on the crap you say here. Cause I think the situation needs a bit of explanation - and truth.

1. Mr. Jedlicka did not put back his judge registration, he is still valid and approoved international judge and actively judges. He was last year twice in Italy.

2. You are not member of the club board in CR, so I don´t really see why the Belgian club should contact you about help. I did contact several members of the Czech Club board, as well as the chairman of the club. Nobody cared to help. So don´t tell me they did not know we were to make bonitation here. They do, but they don´t bother, as long as the event does not happen in their yard.

3. However is Mr. Jedlicka connected with the "Mutara" case, is not a thing to discuss here and certainly it does not affect our bonitation or his way of judging. Neither it changes the standard of CSW, so it has nothing to do with us or our bonitation.

Thank you very much for making things clear, negative advertisement is also advertisement!

[Navarre]

Originally Posted by Mirkawolf

He was last year twice in Italy.

Sorry, but really this isn't a strong point. He is higly involved with italian club because the Mutara's puppy registration made in our country by his friend of breeding comittee.
He knows well this breed, but the "bonitace" he made in Italy isn't anymore the standard bonitace of Czech Rep. as far I saw.

Tired of making so-called "italian bonitace" and tired of these people, some months ago we ask to KCSV for an help and for a Jude to make -here in Italy- a valid an up to date bonitace.

Thanks to the help of Czech club, at least we - as member of KCSV- made here in Pavia, the 2nd largest bonitace ever (n. of dogs) in the World, as you can see in dbase.
Many people here was tired of italian club, his friends, and their main target : sell puppies and destroy the breed.

After all I think too that you can choose a more approriate judge for you bonitace.

[Liesbeth]

Even if we want to take another judge: there's no judge available...
We asked several times, but no response.
J.Jedlicka was the only one willing to help...

We also want a valid and up to date bonitation. I believe this must be possible also with a judge like J.Jedlicka... But maybe I'm wrong.

Like I said: we only try to do our best. In Dutch we have that saying: (translated litteraly) You have to row with the oars you've got...

If just someone could give us good advise or help instead of saying how bad things are... (and then I'm not talking to someone personally, let that be clear; I'm thankful for all replies...).

Liesbeth

[Navarre]

1) You must choose a date that is good for everybody, judges too.

2) We' ve got about 20-25 italian memeber of KCSV, so if there are enough member of Czech (or slovakian) club in a country, the czech club could (and should) organize a bonitace in that country with his judges.

3) of course you should pay travel & lodging for judges

4) again : I'm nothing against mr. Jedlicka, I think he was a very good judge too, but some of his friends aren't good people at all.

5) As you can see italian bonitace made by this judge (and other judges) in the "italian way" are not visible anymore on this website, simply because they are'nt "bonitace", but are somthing different (but with the same codes).
You must be sure he will apply the latest rules for bonitace.

6) Anyway, goodluck

[saschia]

Originally Posted by Navarre

5) As you can see italian bonitace made by this judge (and other judges) in the "italian way" are not visible anymore on this website, simply because they are'nt "bonitace", but are somthing different (but with the same codes).

This is different situation. Italian club didn't want the bonitation to be as it is in Czech or in Slovak. They specifically didn't want the character test. And because they ddn't do the character test in our way, we cannont accept their codes as valid ones.
On the other hand, Belgian club specifically wishes to make a bonitation the same way as in countries of origin. If their test is the same as in Slovakia or Czech rep., with an international judge that is experienced with wolfdogs, their results will be valid, thats all.