Wolf Dogs in SCHUTZHUND III

G.D.K's · 17-07-2004, 18:17

Hey Dog's Owners,
Like i say still new with this breed.

I know that a Ceskoslovensky vlcak is a good working dog but need only one Handler , this why he is not good for Army work (ever few years thy change a Handler)... I know it's also a good Tracking dog.

I really like the SCHUTZHUND Sport but never seen a Ceskoslovensky vlcak in SCHUTZHUND, few month ago i did want to Import a Malinois from Austria (www.satansberg.at it's my friend Ant kennels) but i got off it after this breed is a great breed but really did not got in love with it.

How is the Ceskoslovensky vlcak in a SCHUTZHUND III ?

For the ISRAELI's some one here in a member of The Israeli Club for Rescue and Defense dogs ?

ray · 18-07-2004, 11:40

first of all the schuthund sport has gone down by 80% in the last years. people don't find it that great any more. if that is what your taking ginadies dogs for i think your making a mistake. this dog still doesn't have a bad or good image in israel and i think the best way to promote it is as a famely working dog and not as an atak dog.
ther are so manny other sports that can suit him much better. ginadie works on agility with them.

G.D.K's · 18-07-2004, 13:24

I just ask how is this breed in schuthund !
I don't know in ISRAEL i more in AUSTRIA dogs for schuthund ... i don't want Ginady dog's to be a schuthund III .... like i did not make my PitBulls schuthund III.

The day i will want a schuthund III dog i will get it from a good working breed that is ok with my family.... http://www.dog.co.il/100/?q=3

Koos · 18-07-2004, 13:29

Hello,

Let me introduce myself. I am Letty de Graaff from Holland and I followed your messages and discussions.

I am a breeder, together with my husband, from German Shepherds an CW's and there is a lot of difference in the characters.

It also not easy to make the CW very obedient because he tryes everything in another way to reach that thing he want to reach. Therefore it is very important to choose new owners for puppy's which are not 100% but 200% idolated from this rase.
When we have puppy's, we told the people who are interesting, all native things a CW can do and when these people still enthousiatic we tell the very good things and maybe they decide that they still want a puppy.
These rase isn't so easy as it look like, like Anna said.

Runnung free is often hunting, so in a lot of parts of different countries isn't that allowed, so they have to go on the lead.
You have to spare your garden, because they can jump over about 1.80 mtr, without no problem. You can hardly leave them alone in your house of car, while there is sure something damaged and there is still the little red ryding hood syndrome. He is look like a wolf and therefore a dangerous dog.

To train a CW for defencedog like Schutzhund or IPO therefore you need a wonderfull helper and patience till ....... Normaly training for German Shepherds and other defence dogs are not common for CW.

It are excellent tracking dogs, better dan German Shepherds and others.And you can train them for example drugsdogs or something like this, but Schutzhund of IPO, that's is the question.

Of course there will be some dogs which do it. I have also 2 males and a female which are doing manwork but if they are good enough for Schutzhund??????. And if they can it is not said that puppy's will do the same like the parents.

About the breeding, Anna said, you can make a lot of money and I agree with her but even here in Holland it is difficult to have good new owners for them and I think it will be in Israel the same, So watch out.

Letty

G.D.K's · 18-07-2004, 13:46

The question what is a good owner?

I'm in the dog world from age 0.... going to Dog shows and working dog's.
when i got to the PitBull world ppl i understand not every breed is for every owner!... but still how u know it's a good owner?

I seen ppl in the PitBull world that i did a big mistake and seen that thy are good owners after thy OPEN the head and learn and i seen ppl that is dangerous to give them a dog.

When ppl call me to Train the dog to attack i ask for what u need it? .. where u live? ... 99% of the ppl are from poor citys or looking to make pose with the dog's.... it's good money but still if a trainer can sleep at night that he know that a drug addict have a attack dog... i canot sleep when i know.

When i'm looking for ppl to buy my Puppys i'm looking for a owner that will think like me and will want to learn about the BREED!
this why i send my dog's to east europe and this why 95% of my puppys been sell to east europe and not ISRAEL.

Dym · 18-07-2004, 14:45

So u understand that there so little people in israel who realy can keep wolfdog. Do u want to breed them here and to sell to Europe????
The qestion is how dou plan breeding? To do one letter in year and find them the realy right owrnwes or to bring more female from Europe and make 20 puppis in year to everyone.?

G.D.K's · 18-07-2004, 15:05

Anna .... you like in my Head.
I don't want to breed the dog's, i want to breed ones and then Import few new dogs to here..... then to breed only when i got few normal owners. I don't like dogs that breed every 6 month or more then 4-5 times in a life time!
I will call u in few hours and we can chat normal and u will understand what i'm talking about.

G.D.K's · 18-07-2004, 15:38

and one more thing.
I come from a breed that is illlegal to own in ENGLAND, FRANCH, Holland and soon in ISRAEL.

I know how mach hard it's to find a normal owner, I was working in Afikim Kennels that sell family dog's and also there u get ass hols.

The PitBull is a stunning breed and i also know that the CW but still it's not the ideal family dog, when u look at the PitBull is a great dog with kid's but every one know that u never put a kid alone with a dog!.. and when a dog like this breed bit the result is a disaster, but still it's not the breed that need to be punish !! ... punish the deed not the breed.

What i'm looking for is to make this breed in ISRAEL, but not so popularity. to teach the ppl what breed is it and mark the the point to train the dog.... I'm a qualified dog trainer (not just reeding book's) .. so when some one get a dog from me he have also to know how to WORK with the dog and not just take it home.

Pavel · 18-07-2004, 18:44

Hi,
I go back to the basically question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.D.K's

How is the Ceskoslovensky vlcak in a SCHUTZHUND III ?

First question - whats you mean with "Schutzhund" ? CsW were breeding for practically use by czech border troops. CsW is good dog for personal defence or for guarding. Because is it very clever and inteligent dog, for him is generally no sense to biting with milimeter exactly 10 times repeat. He knows very good, that its game only and only very less CsW are so playful, that can reach in this sport some succeses.
And if you want to see some CsW by defence work, then is no problem. We have many times in the year the CsW meetings with training or competitions. You can see the pictures e.g. on :
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/gallery/cat1896.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/gallery/cat1763.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/gallery/cat1723.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/gallery/cat1619.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/gallery/cat1343.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/gallery/cat1898.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/gallery/cat1814.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/gallery/cat1513.html
http://www.wolfdog.org/eng/gallery/cat1479.html

Its very difficult to make a pictures by practically use or by competition, so that mostly are the pictures from training only. But if you will see the CsW by defence work on your own eyes, you are always welcome by us.

Pavel (Czech republic)

Ori · 18-07-2004, 21:28

Hello
I'm Ela and I have 1 nearly 2years old CsV.
I've a different observation of behaving of CsV than Letty said.
My dog can stay at home and in a car alone and nothing is damaged. He sometimes stays in the garden but he never thinks to jump and go, he can dig a garden

but not run away.

Koos · 19-07-2004, 20:11

I know where your dog is coming from (ahum) but it depends of course how you raise your dog, but a lot of dogs have the symtoms I wrote.
Dino, which is Koos his dog, I can't let him loose in the room, because he demaged the door and try to get through the window when Koos is not in his neaberhood.
Also he klimbs over the garden which is 1.80mtr high. I allways have to watch him when he is outside.
And therfore I warn everybody that such a things can be happen but it is not necessary of course.

Letty

Wolfsirius · 19-07-2004, 21:46

You are right, Letty. I agree 100% with you in this case. My dogs, for example Molly, which is truly mine, and only mine, is totally crazy for me, and once jumped through window after me, as i went outside. Molly also jumped out from car window as we drove 50km/hour, and nothing happened to her. They can destroy places a lot, or there can be individuals who don't destroy, always depence. But, most important is to tell everyone who is interested in breed, what dogs are able to do, like jump over 2 meter fence, escape from normal "showcage" in 10seconds, escape from flybox in 10 minuts, even so, that you don't have any flybox anymore.. and lot of more. Is better to know what can happen, that notice it too late, and gave dog away cause that. Story about CsV in waterbed (written at wolfdog.org) was one of the best, have you read it?

-Suski

Koos · 19-07-2004, 23:01

Hi Suski,

Yes of course I read the demage of the waterbed and even I have seen the second try of the new bed. It happened by Mijke , she is living about 12 km from our place.

Night,

letty

mijke · 20-07-2004, 01:00

Hi Suski and others,

As the owner of the "waterbed-dog"

(see article:An inventive wolfdog 06/01/2004) I know a lot about dammage caused by a CsW

(Letty knows also the waterbed story, we are living in her neighberhood

)
And the same dog is also an expert in escaping

(he even jumped, without any problems, out of the window from the second floor), but he is never running away... his favorite game is to find a way out en then he runs to our frontdoor and starts barking

But the measure of destroying is different between individual dogs. The waterbed-dog did never destroy anything else

While my other CsW destroyed a lot of things

For years I am a breeder of an other breed and I had replaced dogs (of different breeds) for resocialising and obedience training. And of course these were not the most easy dogs

(and also they did destroy something from time till time aso)
And in all these time I never used a bench (cage)

But since I have CsW's I had to buy benches!

After all my years of experiences I am convinced a CsW is the most intelligent expert for escaping and ruin things

So I agree with you and Letty, that you have to warn and prepare honnost the new owners what it is like to have CsW

(it is easy to sell such beautiful pups to everyone, but it is hard to find owners wich real can take responsebility to raise and train a Csw for his lifetime)

So Gidi, also tell interseted people a CsW is a real working dog

Because of his intelligence and his playful character he needs to do activity's and he likes working! (a CsW is not a sofa-dog!!)
New owners who don't like to do daily things to gether with their dog, can better look for an other breed.

And no, they are not traineble in the way like you can do with a GSD

But when you find the way to motivate them, and you don't repeat exercises again and again (so it becomes boring) they even like obedience training

And maybe they are not the best as a Schutzhund, but there are a lot of other things you can do with them!
Defence work is not any problem for them (and even without training he will defend his pack anytime

), search work they like, running and water work is also favorite, pulling sledges, rescue work, it does no matter what it is, but they need to do things!!.
And for me personal it is not even necessary to get a certificate for this (but it is nice sometimes

) because I like doing things together with my dogs and find out what are their individual possibillity's.

And when people can't find a traininggroup or dogschool where they can go with their CsW, I tell them be inventive an creative!

For example when we had here a big storm a lot of trees in the wood did fall down. And then I went with some others to this wood and we let the dogs climb for mtrs. high and search their owners. And this new experience was a big fun for dogs and owners

Because the most important thing is that a CsW can work and do something

Greetings,
Mijke

z Peronówki · 20-07-2004, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.D.K's

How is the Ceskoslovensky vlcak in a SCHUTZHUND III ?

It is hard to answer it because the idea of training with CzWs was dead (or 'asleep') for a very long time. First since few years the people started to train more, to organize the meetings with training and different competitions. So it is getting better and better every year...

But overwhelming number of CzW owners are simply said begginers which make a lot of mistakes while training those dogs. And it will take a while until we will have bigger group of staff that can prove the maximum abilities of this breed...

So far all I can say is that Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs can be trained for SchHIII but I will not call them winners of this sport discipline...

They are good in tracking and also love protection work. But it is very boring for them to be thorough..

That's the reason why you will need much more work with a CzW than with a BSD or GSD...

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoosLetydeGraaff

It also not easy to make the CW very obedient because he tryes everything in another way to reach that thing he want to reach.

That's right. But it apply only to things which CzWs don't like to do... If a dog hates for example obiedience it will try do make everything only not this what the owner is asking for...

That's the reason why Wolfdogs need experienced and (most important) consistent owners. If you are consistent and you have good motivation for the dog he will give everything to satisfied the owner...

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoosLetydeGraaff

You have to spare your garden, because they can jump over about 1.80 mtr, without no problem.

I don't think it is really posible to secure the garden to be 100% sure that the dogs will not get out...

I think it is much easier to teach the dogs not to go out. We have 5 Wolfdogs and all are running free. The fence is 1.7 and all dogs can easy go over but they don't do it. Of course they tried - but every time we learn them it is not allowed. Now the only dogs which is jumping over (but not running away) is 1.5 years old female which is with us just since one month. But even she makes it very sporadically (more rarely last time).

I think there are two main reason why the dogs go away:
- There is not good enough contact with the owner; the owner is not a member of their pack. So the biggest problems are with "second hand" dogs or dogs which were to long by the breeder (we had some such cases in Poland)
- The dogs are bored. If the dogs have nothing to do and they just stay in the garden for the whole time they will look for interesing things outside and walk away. Tired and satisfied dogs will never run away..

But I think it is good to mention about it to the new owners so they can be prepared and work with the dogs in such way that they will not jump over the fence...

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoosLetydeGraaff

You can hardly leave them alone in your house of car, while there is sure something damaged

Right. That's also another problem. We made the same mistake with our first wolfdog - he was never alone and now he can't stay alone even for 5 minuts...

But we learned quickly and worked on it with other dogs. But the owner must begin with training as soon as possible because later it can be imposible to get the dog used to stay alone at home...
So the females we can leave even for 10 hours at home or in the car and nothing will happen... They will sleep until we are back...

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoosLetydeGraaff

I know where your dog is coming from (ahum) but it depends of course how you raise your dog, but a lot of dogs have the symtoms I wrote.

I think it is also huge question about choosing the right puppy. Ela was looking for a dog to train with. When the puppies are young we play with them to see their predispositions and also to develop their interest to aport and playing with people. So it was easy for us to choose a puppy with the best characteritics and luckly Ela had the same opinion about Amber.
About raising the puppy: I think if the future owner knows the possible problems with a CzW; if he knows also advantages and disadvantages of his puppy then he can handle so to prevents the symptoms you've listed...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfsirius

Story about CsV in waterbed (written at wolfdog.org) was one of the best, have you read it?

It is great story. But don't forget Mijke was not the owner of Karlik from the beginning but she get him when he was already older.

mijke · 20-07-2004, 02:29

Quote:

It is great story. But don't forget Mijke was not the owner of Karlik from the beginning but she get him when he was already older.

I agree complete with this

Karlik did live his first 8 months with a pack of CsW's in a dogyard and afterwoods some month with a very unexperienced dog owner, before he did come to our place. (and many times I did wish I had this wonderful dog from the time he was a puppy, what a great dog he should be now)

Now he has to live as a normal pet in a family, and I think a lot of his problems with this has to do with the time before he was with us.

G.D.K's · 20-07-2004, 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margo

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.D.K's

How is the Ceskoslovensky vlcak in a SCHUTZHUND III ?

It is hard to answer it because the idea of training with CzWs was dead (or 'asleep') for a very long time. First since few years the people started to train more, to organize the meetings with training and different competitions. So it is getting better and better every year...

But overwhelming number of CzW owners are simply said begginers which make a lot of mistakes while training those dogs. And it will take a while until we will have bigger group of staff that can prove the maximum abilities of this breed...

So far all I can say is that Czechoslovakian Wolfdogs can be trained for SchHIII but I will not call them winners of this sport discipline...

They are good in tracking and also love protection work. But it is very boring for them to be thorough..

That's the reason why you will need much more work with a CzW than with a BSD or GSD...

Never hard work stand in my way

every one like to win, but to take a win in SCHUTZHUND III it's just a wet dream for me

when i will get a puppy, maybe i will work with him on SCHUTZHUND but just for the fun.

z Peronówki · 20-07-2004, 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.D.K's

every one like to win, but to take a win in SCHUTZHUND III it's just a wet dream for me

Maybe one day...

So far the biggest problem of the owners is: first they buy a puppy and after it they try to check if they can work with it... And after it they wonder why their dogs can't be compared with the best working dogs in their region/country...

So far I don't know people which were really looking for the best working puppy... Sure I saw people which choosed one litter and after it their choosed the best puppy from this one litter. But it is not the same...

Some years ago our friend was looking for a working puppy for him. He visited many "working" lines and tested the puppies. I remember his words that most of the 'working lines' are just fairy tales and the puppies are nothing special. More similar to shows dogs... After pretty long time he finally found good litter where he found good dog for him...
...and he was not looking for a Wolfdog, he was looking for a Malinois (he bouth son Django of from Ivan Balabanov) but the situation is the same:
in some litter there are worser and better dogs but none of the puppies can be called "working dog" and in other litters huge part of the puppies can have good working abilities. The problem is to find such puppy...

I already know some such CzWs - they are really exceptional: learning faster that average Wolfdog and also making progress much faster than other dogs. Some CzW owners work years and they really are not able to achive good results but other (with good dog) can achive their goals as fast as "GSD owners"...

Ori · 20-07-2004, 12:26

Everything about the behavior was said here

, I agree with Margo . It's a question of a good contact, but I also agree that it's hard to make it.
I train with my dog since he was 3 months old. He pased Obedience exam reaching 195points on 200pionts max, and a judge said he shoud go on dog's conpetitions because he was really fantastic, but I now (what Mijke said) that if you leave your dog without training the dog can not be so nice.
But I also love to train with my dog even if he sometimes is not the best

G.D.K's · 20-07-2004, 16:31

Thank you for the INFO

17-07-2004, 18:17	#1
G.D.K's Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Neve Ativ, Golan Heights Posts: 35	Wolf Dogs in SCHUTZHUND III Hey Dog's Owners, Like i say still new with this breed. I know that a Ceskoslovensky vlcak is a good working dog but need only one Handler , this why he is not good for Army work (ever few years thy change a Handler)... I know it's also a good Tracking dog. I really like the SCHUTZHUND Sport but never seen a Ceskoslovensky vlcak in SCHUTZHUND, few month ago i did want to Import a Malinois from Austria (www.satansberg.at it's my friend Ant kennels) but i got off it after this breed is a great breed but really did not got in love with it. How is the Ceskoslovensky vlcak in a SCHUTZHUND III ? For the ISRAELI's some one here in a member of The Israeli Club for Rescue and Defense dogs ? __________________ BELIEVE NOTHING OF WHAT YOU HEAR AND HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE...

18-07-2004, 13:24	#3
G.D.K's Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Neve Ativ, Golan Heights Posts: 35	I just ask how is this breed in schuthund ! I don't know in ISRAEL i more in AUSTRIA dogs for schuthund ... i don't want Ginady dog's to be a schuthund III .... like i did not make my PitBulls schuthund III. The day i will want a schuthund III dog i will get it from a good working breed that is ok with my family.... http://www.dog.co.il/100/?q=3 __________________ BELIEVE NOTHING OF WHAT YOU HEAR AND HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE...

18-07-2004, 13:46	#5
G.D.K's Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Neve Ativ, Golan Heights Posts: 35	The question what is a good owner? I'm in the dog world from age 0.... going to Dog shows and working dog's. when i got to the PitBull world ppl i understand not every breed is for every owner!... but still how u know it's a good owner? I seen ppl in the PitBull world that i did a big mistake and seen that thy are good owners after thy OPEN the head and learn and i seen ppl that is dangerous to give them a dog. When ppl call me to Train the dog to attack i ask for what u need it? .. where u live? ... 99% of the ppl are from poor citys or looking to make pose with the dog's.... it's good money but still if a trainer can sleep at night that he know that a drug addict have a attack dog... i canot sleep when i know. When i'm looking for ppl to buy my Puppys i'm looking for a owner that will think like me and will want to learn about the BREED! this why i send my dog's to east europe and this why 95% of my puppys been sell to east europe and not ISRAEL. __________________ BELIEVE NOTHING OF WHAT YOU HEAR AND HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE...

18-07-2004, 15:05	#7
G.D.K's Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Neve Ativ, Golan Heights Posts: 35	Anna .... you like in my Head. I don't want to breed the dog's, i want to breed ones and then Import few new dogs to here..... then to breed only when i got few normal owners. I don't like dogs that breed every 6 month or more then 4-5 times in a life time! I will call u in few hours and we can chat normal and u will understand what i'm talking about. __________________ BELIEVE NOTHING OF WHAT YOU HEAR AND HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE...

18-07-2004, 15:38	#8
G.D.K's Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Neve Ativ, Golan Heights Posts: 35	and one more thing. I come from a breed that is illlegal to own in ENGLAND, FRANCH, Holland and soon in ISRAEL. I know how mach hard it's to find a normal owner, I was working in Afikim Kennels that sell family dog's and also there u get ass hols. The PitBull is a stunning breed and i also know that the CW but still it's not the ideal family dog, when u look at the PitBull is a great dog with kid's but every one know that u never put a kid alone with a dog!.. and when a dog like this breed bit the result is a disaster, but still it's not the breed that need to be punish !! ... punish the deed not the breed. What i'm looking for is to make this breed in ISRAEL, but not so popularity. to teach the ppl what breed is it and mark the the point to train the dog.... I'm a qualified dog trainer (not just reeding book's) .. so when some one get a dog from me he have also to know how to WORK with the dog and not just take it home. __________________ BELIEVE NOTHING OF WHAT YOU HEAR AND HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE...

18-07-2004, 11:40	#2
ray Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 11	first of all the schuthund sport has gone down by 80% in the last years. people don't find it that great any more. if that is what your taking ginadies dogs for i think your making a mistake. this dog still doesn't have a bad or good image in israel and i think the best way to promote it is as a famely working dog and not as an atak dog. ther are so manny other sports that can suit him much better. ginadie works on agility with them.

18-07-2004, 13:29	#4
Koos Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 731	Hello, Let me introduce myself. I am Letty de Graaff from Holland and I followed your messages and discussions. I am a breeder, together with my husband, from German Shepherds an CW's and there is a lot of difference in the characters. It also not easy to make the CW very obedient because he tryes everything in another way to reach that thing he want to reach. Therefore it is very important to choose new owners for puppy's which are not 100% but 200% idolated from this rase. When we have puppy's, we told the people who are interesting, all native things a CW can do and when these people still enthousiatic we tell the very good things and maybe they decide that they still want a puppy. These rase isn't so easy as it look like, like Anna said. Runnung free is often hunting, so in a lot of parts of different countries isn't that allowed, so they have to go on the lead. You have to spare your garden, because they can jump over about 1.80 mtr, without no problem. You can hardly leave them alone in your house of car, while there is sure something damaged and there is still the little red ryding hood syndrome. He is look like a wolf and therefore a dangerous dog. To train a CW for defencedog like Schutzhund or IPO therefore you need a wonderfull helper and patience till ....... Normaly training for German Shepherds and other defence dogs are not common for CW. It are excellent tracking dogs, better dan German Shepherds and others.And you can train them for example drugsdogs or something like this, but Schutzhund of IPO, that's is the question. Of course there will be some dogs which do it. I have also 2 males and a female which are doing manwork but if they are good enough for Schutzhund??????. And if they can it is not said that puppy's will do the same like the parents. About the breeding, Anna said, you can make a lot of money and I agree with her but even here in Holland it is difficult to have good new owners for them and I think it will be in Israel the same, So watch out. Letty

18-07-2004, 14:45	#6
Dym Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 26	So u understand that there so little people in israel who realy can keep wolfdog. Do u want to breed them here and to sell to Europe???? The qestion is how dou plan breeding? To do one letter in year and find them the realy right owrnwes or to bring more female from Europe and make 20 puppis in year to everyone.?

18-07-2004, 21:28	#10
Ori Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Poznań, Poland Posts: 1,471	Hello I'm Ela and I have 1 nearly 2years old CsV. I've a different observation of behaving of CsV than Letty said. My dog can stay at home and in a car alone and nothing is damaged. He sometimes stays in the garden but he never thinks to jump and go, he can dig a garden but not run away. __________________ www.jantarowawataha.pl

19-07-2004, 20:11	#11
Koos Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 731	I know where your dog is coming from (ahum) but it depends of course how you raise your dog, but a lot of dogs have the symtoms I wrote. Dino, which is Koos his dog, I can't let him loose in the room, because he demaged the door and try to get through the window when Koos is not in his neaberhood. Also he klimbs over the garden which is 1.80mtr high. I allways have to watch him when he is outside. And therfore I warn everybody that such a things can be happen but it is not necessary of course. Letty

19-07-2004, 21:46	#12
Wolfsirius Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 118	You are right, Letty. I agree 100% with you in this case. My dogs, for example Molly, which is truly mine, and only mine, is totally crazy for me, and once jumped through window after me, as i went outside. Molly also jumped out from car window as we drove 50km/hour, and nothing happened to her. They can destroy places a lot, or there can be individuals who don't destroy, always depence. But, most important is to tell everyone who is interested in breed, what dogs are able to do, like jump over 2 meter fence, escape from normal "showcage" in 10seconds, escape from flybox in 10 minuts, even so, that you don't have any flybox anymore.. and lot of more. Is better to know what can happen, that notice it too late, and gave dog away cause that. Story about CsV in waterbed (written at wolfdog.org) was one of the best, have you read it? -Suski

19-07-2004, 23:01	#13
Koos Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 731	Hi Suski, Yes of course I read the demage of the waterbed and even I have seen the second try of the new bed. It happened by Mijke , she is living about 12 km from our place. Night, letty

20-07-2004, 01:00	#14
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	Hi Suski and others, As the owner of the "waterbed-dog" (see article:An inventive wolfdog 06/01/2004) I know a lot about dammage caused by a CsW (Letty knows also the waterbed story, we are living in her neighberhood ) And the same dog is also an expert in escaping (he even jumped, without any problems, out of the window from the second floor), but he is never running away... his favorite game is to find a way out en then he runs to our frontdoor and starts barking But the measure of destroying is different between individual dogs. The waterbed-dog did never destroy anything else While my other CsW destroyed a lot of things For years I am a breeder of an other breed and I had replaced dogs (of different breeds) for resocialising and obedience training. And of course these were not the most easy dogs (and also they did destroy something from time till time aso) And in all these time I never used a bench (cage) But since I have CsW's I had to buy benches! After all my years of experiences I am convinced a CsW is the most intelligent expert for escaping and ruin things So I agree with you and Letty, that you have to warn and prepare honnost the new owners what it is like to have CsW (it is easy to sell such beautiful pups to everyone, but it is hard to find owners wich real can take responsebility to raise and train a Csw for his lifetime) So Gidi, also tell interseted people a CsW is a real working dog Because of his intelligence and his playful character he needs to do activity's and he likes working! (a CsW is not a sofa-dog!!) New owners who don't like to do daily things to gether with their dog, can better look for an other breed. And no, they are not traineble in the way like you can do with a GSD But when you find the way to motivate them, and you don't repeat exercises again and again (so it becomes boring) they even like obedience training And maybe they are not the best as a Schutzhund, but there are a lot of other things you can do with them! Defence work is not any problem for them (and even without training he will defend his pack anytime ), search work they like, running and water work is also favorite, pulling sledges, rescue work, it does no matter what it is, but they need to do things!!. And for me personal it is not even necessary to get a certificate for this (but it is nice sometimes ) because I like doing things together with my dogs and find out what are their individual possibillity's. And when people can't find a traininggroup or dogschool where they can go with their CsW, I tell them be inventive an creative! For example when we had here a big storm a lot of trees in the wood did fall down. And then I went with some others to this wood and we let the dogs climb for mtrs. high and search their owners. And this new experience was a big fun for dogs and owners Because the most important thing is that a CsW can work and do something Greetings, Mijke __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!!

20-07-2004, 12:26	#19
Ori Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Poznań, Poland Posts: 1,471	Everything about the behavior was said here , I agree with Margo . It's a question of a good contact, but I also agree that it's hard to make it. I train with my dog since he was 3 months old. He pased Obedience exam reaching 195points on 200pionts max, and a judge said he shoud go on dog's conpetitions because he was really fantastic, but I now (what Mijke said) that if you leave your dog without training the dog can not be so nice. But I also love to train with my dog even if he sometimes is not the best __________________ www.jantarowawataha.pl

20-07-2004, 16:31	#20
G.D.K's Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Neve Ativ, Golan Heights Posts: 35	Thank you for the INFO __________________ BELIEVE NOTHING OF WHAT YOU HEAR AND HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE...