Trouble with my dog

[Karin]

Hallo,
I know what are you talking about. I live with my female in a flat. When she
was a puppy, destroying of things was normal. Especially she loved to ruin
my flowers, bed sheets etc. I can write you what I was practising to prevent
these bad surprises. It worked 100%. I can let her alone for six hours alone
without any fear.
It is good to let her alone with some bone or dried pig ears and some toys,
which can be destroyed.
When you come home don't show happiness that you see the dog. First check
damages. If there are some take him to the thing he destroyed show him and
talk to him in a quite angry voice (but do not shout). Find some phrase,
which express that something is quite wrong. For example: "What is this?
Look what you've done!
Then put the dog to some place where he must stay for half an hour at least.
You will see how it works. If half an hour is not enough you can let him on
one place longer, it depends on a level of phlegm of your dog. Put him a
muzzle on mouth and install peaces of destroyed thing into it (if possible).
When you come home and there is nothing destroyed welcome the dog very
enthusiastically. Use words like: "You are so good!" I don't know what are
you used to say in these cases. What is very important every time give
something very tasty to the dog (some meet or something else what he likes
to eat.).
Be patient and after a month you should se success. If there is some problem
then you can write me to my mail. I will try to help you.
Karin

My mail: [email protected]

[Karin]

Hi,

I am a bit confused about this - I guess it was only a joke, but is Karin
now joking too?
Deborah's dog is showing symptoms of separation anxiety (typical for this is
that the dog urinates everywhere and destroys things) because it can't bear
separation.

**** In my opinion, the symptoms described by Deborah indicate there are
more possibilities .

May be:
1)The dog is scared of Deborah. She could have made some
educational mistake. (I don't think so.)
2)The dog is confused and doesn't know how to behave. The
behaviour of Deborah and her husband wasn't consistent- every time the same. They punished or rewarded her not always for the same
the same way.
3)The dog makes this on purpose. She made
something(Deborah) what the dog doesn't like or she does something what is not acceptable for the dog often. I couldn't watch the behaviour of the dog by myself. The combination of these is possible.Also the female does this even when they are at home. How Deborah wrote me, It is not just urinating but also doing a big job. Considering from this (and more written by D.) basic separaition anxiety isn't much probable. As you mention, urination and destroying things is typical for s.a. - but it doesn't mean that every dog chewing on your shoes and peeing in the hall is desperate without your presence.

The dog panics when left alone. You should never greet a dog
like that enthusiastically, in deed you should not greet it at all.

**** This I don't find like normal behavior between the dog and his
owner. When you behave to the dog like this for longer time, then he
thinks, you don't like him. He doesn't understand why you behave like this
to him. You are punishing him every time you ignore him after coming home. You push him away and he tries to attract your attention may be even by peeing when you see it.

Neither
should you give him any attention about half an hour before you leave home -
and no good byes. Leaving home and coming back should just be normal things
that constantly happen in dog's life - so there should not be big emotions
about that.

**** No, you, your family and your dog-that make the pack. All behaviour
should be natural and full of sense.
It should't be just a dog. It is a member of your family-pack. Don't
separate you and the dog, not even in your head.

If dogs have separation anxiety and are not just bored while
alone, they normally don't eat or chew anything suitable, so bones and toys
in this case won't do.

**** This is not separtion anxiety. You can try to give the dog some good
thinks to play or chew. We will see the result.
With a dog like this you should try to get the bond
between your and the dog little less intense.

Don't allow the dog follow you
everywhere when you are at home and give it generally less affection.

**** It is natural behavior for the dog to follow the leader of the pack.
He does't uderstand why he must stay separately and he find it again as a
restriction.

My male CsW also used to destroy everything - and I mean now e v e r y t h
i n g : clothes, furniture, dors, windows etc -, while he was alone. We
bought him a big kennel from it he can't escape (he is a real escape artist
but this is a different story) and that helped. Now I can even leave him for
a short time alone home but the problem is that he can open doors and
windows (without destroying them) ...

**** Have you already solved your problem Minna?

I dont believe in punishing a dog long after it has destroyed something or
rewarding it long after it has done something right. With dogs punishment
and reward must come simultaneously while the wrong/right behaviour is
happening.

**** The dogs are inteligent enough to recognise what is wrong or right
for you. But you must teach them this first. I could see this on my female
and dogs of my friends. I don't think they are so special.

The good advise from Karin was that you should put the dog to some place
where he must stay for half an hour at least - ignoring the dog really can
help. Karin also recommended to put him a muzzle on and install peaces of
destroyed thing into it.

**** This is not about ignoring the dog. You just show him taha his
behaviour wasn't right. That he can't do what he wants after his behaviour
was wrong.

Well, wouldn't it be better idea to leave the dog wear a good muzzle (so
that the dog can drink and pant when having it on) while alone?

**** This I see like qite big punishment for the dog. The way is not to
protect your flat and your things.

You should try to help your dog at first place. This can help you
but how does it help the dog?
You may need to buy a big crate (car box) where the dog must be when you are
not home. Of
course you can/should try to train you dog to stay alone first just a one
minute and then longer and longer.

**** Closing the dog in a box, that should help the dog with some psychic
problem to behave normal way? It is like closing someone who feels alone to
separate room.
Do you want to close the dog to the cage every time you leave for the
rest of his life?
This problem is also when you are at home. Do you find as a good
solution to close the dog to the cage also when you are at home?

Karin

[deborah]

Hi guys
Hope you're able to help me with some advise, even though my dog isn't a
CsW, she's a German Shepard... She is almost 4 months old now.
For about two weeks from now, she has been biting everything to pieces
when we're at work. She does it as well even though we are only sleeping.
She has access to our bedroom, normally she sleeps besides my bed, so I
don't think lonelyness at night is the problem. Besides that, she
urinates and so, inside the house even when she has access to our garden,
which she normally use for emergencies. It only happens when we are not
around, e.g. sleeping, working etc. Yesterday for an exemple my husband
and I was away for about 20 min. to get our laundry done. Usually that's
not a problem, but she urinated and layed what dogs lay, on the floor.

I don't now what to do, but it's becoming a problem I can't handle any
more, especially the biting things apart. I've been looking for advise
and help since it started, but nothing has helped yet.

I would really appreciate any good advice you could give on the matter.

Thanks in advance,

Lena Christensen
Denmark.

[jackie]

dear lena
i am from England and i own a "utonagan"...they are wolf lookalikes,and
have been bred with malamute ,husky,and german shepherd dogs to get the wolf
lookalike....myself and my sister own them, and i totally sympathise with
you.....my sweet little girl,was such a distructive thing when she was a
puppie.....digging holes in garden( huge ones) eating walls,yes walls in my
kitchen....anything made from wood....anything left on
floor....,shoes,socks,baby's toys....and also anything in her reach as much
as we tried we couldnt make it "momtaz" proof...so i do under
stand.....heres what i tried with her.......during the day dog toys with the
bits of food inside,so when it rolls around food or kibble came out,..which
did keep her amused for a while....an old sweater of mine that she could
smell me on,to do with it what she wanted...when it was time for me to go to
out for long periods of time,i didnt make to much of a fuss with her..so as
she noticed i had gone.....even while i was in the house i put her in the
kitchen for short periods of time to get her used to being on her
own....night time..she had no toys just my sweater..to teach her when its
dark its sleep,and again never made a fuss of her just before bed
time.....there are proberbly lots more things ive forgotten..even though she
is only 2 1/2....but hope this helps....
jackie x
p.s. momtaz had 10 puppies on saturday....poor me

[Tina]

I would really appreciate any good advice you could give on the matter.

You should definitely get a crate for her! I would also like to suggest that
you join our http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STM-Tr...?yguid=3854678 and read the many posts that are already
there regarding the same kinds of problems you are having. We have lots of great
trainers on that list giving good advise

[mijke]

Hi Lena,

Lots of puppy's (of different breeds) do the same. Especialy when they are
changing their teeth, but some of them for a much longer period :-(
And some of them are worse than others, our CsW was a specialist!
The only advice I can give you is: buy a bench.
Every time when you can't pay attention to your dog, she can stay for a
while in the bench. It isn't sad for the dog, they get used to it. It is
more sad for a puppy when you become angry every time (because they don't
understand) Don't use the bench as a punishment, but give her something
special every time she is in the bench. Then it becomes a place where she
feels comfortable and where she likes to be.
When she is a bit older you can try again to leave her outside the bench
when she is alone
Now our CsW is 12 months, and she hardly doesn't demolishe. (So there is
hope for you!!) Now very often she goes into the bench to sleep by herself
(with the door open) Only in nighttime we lock her up (we don't trust her
with the garbagebin :-) !!).

Greetings
Mijke

[deborah]

Hi all
I got this email today (see the text below), and I can't believe what
I've been reading...
I certainly don't hope, that this is normal behaviour when raising a
puppy. Since I've only posted my problems concerning my dog on this list,
I have to assume, that this person is on it as well. -Don't hope my yell
for fairness goes unnoticed.
This is the original message;


From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Date: 09/06/2003 23:20
Subject: Misbehaving hound.

----------------------------------------------


Assuming the animal has been reared and trained correctly and there is no
new routine or occurence that has triggered the behaviour I find the best
methods of behavioural modification are as follows:-

1) Force the snout of the animal into its own filth, whilst
shouting "No, Bastard" (you will need to say this in Dutch). Then drag
outside the beast and leave it to consider the degenerate act it has
perpetrated for around five minutes, the animal must be alone whilst
contemplating.

2) Purchase a riding crop and drag the beast over to the damaged area or
filth pile and shout "No, Bastard" (you can use English if you wish) then
smartly strike the hound on its upper rear leg muscle from the side (the
animal should yelp in pain and surprise if you use the correct degree of
violence), as before isolate the animal for at least five minutes.

The above work even better if catching the animal in the act you do.

If after two or three repetitions the canid is still behaving like a
degenerate and assuming you have inflicted sufficient pain then it is
likely that the animal is either possesssed by the devil or simply a
dirty and evil example, in this case simply give it away to a "friend"
and obtain a fresh pup and try to learn from your mistakes. There are no
stupid dogs, just ignorant owners you see.

I hope that this helps.

Klaus.

[wolfeywolf]

Are you sure it should not be read with Sarcasm?, if not then this is
intolerable!
Sick if it is true because this is the reason dogs end up in rescue centres
or 6 foot under!
Laura

[dperez]

Hi all,

I have decided that this is meant as a joke. There is no way anyone could still think that, is there ?!!!????

Don't follow this advice ))))

Damaris

[Ragy]

This is not a joke, this is a sick behaviour,OF COURSE YOU SHOULD IGNORE IT.
I can't believe how can anyone write that on the site, it is not funny at
all.

Ragy,

[Koos]

Hello everybody,

Like some others I think also that this is joke. You don't rise up a puppy
in this way. You have to be patient with puppy's and also in the period of
changing teeth.
They like to bite in everything and to do everything what is not allowed. In
a few month, is goes better and then your puppy is the lovest of the whole
world.

Letty

[deborah]

hi again

Are you sure it should not be read with Sarcasm?, if not then this is
intolerable!

Sadly, but no, I don't think so... Why should he be sending me this kind
of email after I've only asked a very (for my point of view) honest and
fair question. Can't find the reason to use sarcasm..
Lena

[deborah]

I have decided that this is meant as a joke. There is no way anyone
> could still think that, is there ?!!!????

Certainly donn't hope so... but i still wonder why.

Don't follow this advice ))))

Don't worry about that

Regards,
Lena

[deborah]

I came to think of something. I've only asked you guys in public (I mean
on an news-list), the only other people I've asked are all from Denmark,
and I've used their private addresses.
The only way this sick person could have gotten my question and
emailaddress would, because of the facts mentioned abowe, be through this
list, because of that I don't think it is meant as a joke, 'cause then he
could just have mailed it on the public list, instead of me personally?
Maybe I'm just paranoid

Best regards,
Lena

[jackie]

hi
try not to let it worry you...if he/she is on this list they know it upsets
you,and are recieving the same messages we are....just try to forget it now,
because those kind of sick people are not worth our time

jackie x

[Tina]

I find that my body language can tell my dogs all they need to know.
After all, dogs speak dog! When importing a dog from a different country in
what language would you use?

Why "dog" of course

I fully agree with all of you, that person was either joking or a bit "off"
his rocker!

[deborah]

-I know, it just really knocks me out, that some people still think that
the things mentioned. are the way to do it...

Lena

[Minna]

Hi,

I am a bit confused about this - I guess it was only a joke, but is Karin
now joking too?
Deborah's dog is showing symptoms of separation anxiety (typical for this is
that the dog urinates everywhere and destroys things) because it can't bear
separation. The dog panics when left alone. You should never greet a dog
like that enthusiastically, in deed you should not greet it at all. Neither
should you give him any attention about half an hour before you leave home -
and no good byes. Leaving home and coming back should just be normal things
that constantly happen in dog's life - so there should not be big emotions
about that. If dogs have separation anxiety and are not just bored while
alone, they normally don't eat or chew anything suitable, so bones and toys
in this case won't do. With a dog like this you should try to get the bond
between your and the dog little less intense. Don't allow the dog follow you
everywhere when you are at home and give it generally less affection.

My male CsW also used to destroy everything - and I mean now e v e r y t h
i n g : clothes, furniture, dors, windows etc -, while he was alone. We
bought him a big kennel from it he can't escape (he is a real escape artist
but this is a different story) and that helped. Now I can even leave him for
a short time alone home but the problem is that he can open doors and
windows (without destroying them) ...

I dont believe in punishing a dog long after it has destroyed something or
rewarding it long after it has done something right. With dogs punishment
and reward must come simultaneously while the wrong/right behaviour is
happening.
The good advise from Karin was that you should put the dog to some place
where he must stay for half an hour at least - ignoring the dog really can
help. Karin also recommended to put him a muzzle on and install peaces of
destroyed thing into it.
Well, wouldn't it be better idea to leave the dog wear a good muzzle (so
that the dog can drink and pant when having it on) while alone? You may need
to buy a big crate (car box) where the dog must be when you are not home. Of
course you can/should try to train you dog to stay alone first just a one
minute and then longer and longer.

Minna

[jackie]

hi all
excellent advise from Minna,not sure about muzzling it while you are out
though,the crate is a good idea once the dog is used to being alone,,,its
gonna take time,but well worth it in the end....good luck and keep us posted
jackie x U.K

[Silver_Dragon]

I had the WORST time with my bernese mountain dog cross and her chewing! We
crated her for the first 8 months or so, but we thought that was enough, as
I don't like to have dogs permanatly crated. Well every SINGLE day we would
come home to things being destroyed, her favorites being books and magazines
and (my stepmothers) shoes, but anything that was available she would find,
and destroy. She was like that up untill just about 4 months ago. She is
now almost 2 years old, so it went on for a LONG time. Nothing seemed to
help, we took extra care each morning to remove any noticable that she can
or would destroy. It didn't seem to matter, she would open bedroom doors,
and get into closets to retrieve shoes! At first I did nothing, because
everyone said that after the action was done, they don't have a clue, but
after this didn't work, I figured I had little to loose. So from then on I
would always yell at her when she did something wrong, but I would drag her
to it and she knew! I started comming home, and the days she destroyed
something she wouldn't come to greet me because she knew she had done wrong!
Then the days she did nothing, she was their happy as can be, so I truely do
not beleive that they don't know what they did after the matter.
Time was all it took. I think alot of training and work also helped out,
because a dog always feels better when they have something to do, and I
found that once I expected her to do her obedience work without any treats
as a reward, she started settling down too... just an odd coincidence
maybe. But now we are working on carting, so she has been fairly exausted
during the day.
Anyways, back to what I was going to recomend... As for the urinating, she
is still a pup! Ivy did not FULLY learn to stop going in the house untill
she was about 7 months old! And that worked instantly once we yelled at her
for it. She is a hard-head and things just do NOT click with her any other
way (and latly she goes into the garbage can, we yell at her every single
time, and she does NOT get the point.... but what are you gonna do?!).
Another thing you may consider is some medical reasoning. My dalmatian is
12, and latley he has been getting Urinary Tract Infections, and he NEVER
goes in the house. But when he has a medical reason he cannot help it
because it hurts so bad he just has to go. I would not rule out any medical
problems unless you have already checked it out, because alot of times that
can be or IS the problem. And it seems more likley because the dog not only
does it while you are gone, but while you are there.
I do not know the full story, but there may also be a problem with a 'fear'
issue. If they are so young things can startle them without you ever
knowing, and maybe something happend where she is afraid to go outside at a
perticular time of the day alone? I mean, I would have to know the full
situation to make full assumptions, but it is another 'option'.
And another thing, you said you were only gone for 20 min. Well when a dog
typicly does something, be it destroy something or urinate etc. when you are
gone, most of the time it will happen within the first 10-30 min. you are
gone.
If you wouldn't mind explaining the full details of the problem and the
situations, it may make things a WHOLE lot easier to classify a problem.
Hope I either may have helped, or will be able to help in the future!

~Silver Dragon~
~Buds Kingston Rose~ 12 year old Dalmatian
~Ivy Lea CGC, TDI~ 2 year old Bernese Mountain Dog/English Setter cross
http://hometown.aol.com/DragonsCave14/index.html