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Koos · 02-05-2007, 10:42

Hello Suski,

To be a FCI judge you need several things.

At first that part I wrote about. Then it continues with with more genetic, phychologic from the dog, more information about the inside of the dog and feeding problems and illnesses and a part of moving form the different kind of dogs.
Also at the end an exam.

Then the 3. part, this is a combination of recognizing movement and exterior from different dogs with his special muskulation for it and recognation of diffenrent coats.
Also with an exam with judging 3 males and 3 females dogs from diffenrent races and another part, speaking about dogs and mistakes by dogs and examination over all the FCI races. Of course all the about 400 races is much too long to speak about but we have to learn them all.

After that you are a beginning judge and allowed to judge only your kind of race you are interesting in. Not at FCI National of International show but also at lokal shows to make experiences with judging.

To be a real judge you have to do race exam and that will be an exam with 3 males and 3 females and writing a judgereport and then after that part you will be examinated by some people about these reports and you knowlegde about this race and illnesses and futureprogramm and how the stand of breeding is at that moment and how the standard was writing and the changements during the years.

When you come trough this all you are a real judge an allowed to judging at FCI shows.

Then you have to do 4 national shows and after that you are allowed to judge in foreing countries with only allowness of our National Kennelclub.

So if you do this whole project it takes, in the most optimal conditions, 4 - 5 years to become a judge.

If you fale for one of these exams you have to wait for over one year and for the real judgeexams it depends when the race club will organize such an exam again and that can be taken minimal 5 years.

So it takes a looooooong time to become a judge.

Letty

*Satu · 02-05-2007, 10:57

First about kennelname. In Finland...
You most be 18years old.
You most be suitable person to get kennelname (not anyting illeagal crimes agaist animals etc.)
You most be member of Kennelclub and your breedclub.
You need breedclub recommendation.
You most write breeding contract (you keep our dogs good and you promise that kenneladviser can visit when it wants.
They can come anytime to control your animals and places.

Then you most go breeding basic curse part one (16h and 40€) incl.genetig,health, illness, animal protectlaw, breeding, breedingrules and canine anatomy etc.
And pass final examination successfully.
Then you can ask kennelname. ca. 200€

And if you want to become judge in Finland. Your way is hard and stony!

Firt you most had have dogs owner /breeder ad last 10 years.
and you need kennelname.
You have to be judge assistant (study for it takes many days)
You most study breeding basic curse part one and part two.
again you need breedclub recommendation.

Then maybe you can go to suitabletest and "dogeye"test and maybe pass it as well.

Then you can study 4 differents books genetiand then you can ask if kennelclub accept you. Studing bacic course takes over 8 weeks.
Every breed most study sepparatelly and you most pass judgingtest for each.
And you most to do judging practise many times.

Judgecurse is very expensive and takes lot of your time.

And if you are judge you most study every year and make tests.

Its so easy and light to come judge in Finland

nanouk · 02-05-2007, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoosLetydeGraaff

In Holland there are still more rules.

At first you have to make at least a cours from about one year about healthyness, feeding, kynological terms, illnesses, exterior, genetica and some more things and then you have to do an exam.

Letty
about that part you are mistaken!
So lang you don#t plan on having more than 4 litters or 20 puppies a yr you don#t need any course. It is strongly adviced but not obligatory.
Registration of a kennelname costs 202€.
Also keep in mind than raising a litter in holland is also possible without a kennelname. The puppies will than only get a name, but with regular FCI papers....whether that is good or bad can be discussed about severly

If you plan on having more than 4 litters a yr, and keep your dogs in kennels rather than in your home the rules change , become a lot strickter! You're breeding effords are than seen as 'bussiness' and you fall under a whole different set of rules!

Koos · 02-05-2007, 13:08

OK Nanouk, you are right but as a responseble breeder I will get names by my puppies.

As you wrote, you can breed without that part but for registration of your kennelname you have to do the first part of the course.

Having one female and having one litter of course it is very intensive to do this all but I think it is wise to do it, because you learn a lot and your puppies will having a kennelname.

There is also a difference between the kennelclub and the organisation of animal protection about the litters and the puppies. One say 4 litters and the other one say 20 puppies

The kennelclub sais that for "hobby" breeding you can go till 4 litters and/of 20 puppies. After that your are a "professional" breeder.

When you have 3 females and all three are mated and they give each 7 puppies. (Also you keep these females in your house and not in kennels) What are you then, a professional breeder or a hobbybreeder. You still have 3 litters but there are more then 20 puppies?????

I know one puppy will not give any problem but what to do when they give all 9 puppies. Maybe the kennelclub will not give you the papers and what then.

I think it is still wise to have the kennelname and to do these course but this is my personel opinion.

Letty

nanouk · 02-05-2007, 13:30

I agree Letty, breeding is something very serious to me, i personally don#t even have a bitch atm, but took the courses and expend my views and knowledge where i can so that i am as prepared as i can be if i ever get my bitch. And probably even than, attending births by other breeders, paperknowledge is far from the same as the real stuff

But in holland , getting a kennelname does not require the KK1 course finished or many other requirements.
the regulations first become stricter as mentioned above, 4 litters or more of 20 puppies or more.
To me the dutch kennelclub is nothing more than an pedigree issueing instituation, much depends on the integrity of the breeder himself and rules and regulations are very lush!

mijke · 02-05-2007, 14:53

Options for Dutch breeders:

A . For Hobby breeders who only incidental breed:

A. Without kennelname:
•Breeder has to know all the administrative things (for example about new rules how to get pedigree for puppy’s)
•Puppy’s will also get FCI pedigree

A.With kennelname:
•Course KK1 is strongly advised but not obligatory
•Condition and circumstances of the dogs have to be good
•All the dogs has to have a pedigree (if wanted you have to show them)
•Females in heat have to be separated when this is nescecary
•The area ofor the litter has to be dry, clean, warm and big enough.
•The breeder has to look after this several times
•The mother dog has to have possibillity to move in the birthgroom
•She also needs a place where she can lay seperate from puppy’s.
•And she has to have possibility to go outside.
•Breeder has to take care for good socialisaition
•Breeder has to know all the administrative things (for example about new rules how to get pedigree for puppy’s)

* When a breeder don’t keep the litter in his house/ room, there are more specific and technical rules for keeping a litter!!

B. Professional breeders (operating more efficiently) with more then incidental puppy’s:
•They has to operate conform all the rules of the cats/dogs decision of the Dutch government (since 2002)
•Then course KK1 Is obligated

(For your info I am a Ductch hobbybreeder with kennel name )

mijke · 02-05-2007, 17:44

By the way, these were only the rules of the Dutch kennel organisation (RVBH)about Kennelname and pedigree.

Besisde this, every official (breed -)club has their own specific breeding rules

When a member of a (breed-) club is breeding conform their specific rules; they are clubbreeder and will get free advertisement for litters and their kennel of the club.

When members don't, the puppies wil still be official dogs of that breed (with official FCI pedigree). But these breeders wil not get club advertisement.

Koos · 02-05-2007, 20:52

After the rules from the Dutch Kennelclub and the breedersclub there are some more rules when you go over 20 puppies and/or 4 litters.

You must have some licenses from the town where you live and some from the organisation for protecting animals.

And they come unexpected several times to look after how your dogs are looking and if the whole situation is clean.

If not, they reported to the Dutch kennelclub and sometimes you are not allowed for a certain time, to breed.

Also the Dutch Kennelclub can send someone to look after, so it not only an institution for giving pedigrees

Letty

02-05-2007, 10:57	#22
*Satu Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 194	First about kennelname. In Finland... You most be 18years old. You most be suitable person to get kennelname (not anyting illeagal crimes agaist animals etc.) You most be member of Kennelclub and your breedclub. You need breedclub recommendation. You most write breeding contract (you keep our dogs good and you promise that kenneladviser can visit when it wants. They can come anytime to control your animals and places. Then you most go breeding basic curse part one (16h and 40€) incl.genetig,health, illness, animal protectlaw, breeding, breedingrules and canine anatomy etc. And pass final examination successfully. Then you can ask kennelname. ca. 200€ And if you want to become judge in Finland. Your way is hard and stony! Firt you most had have dogs owner /breeder ad last 10 years. and you need kennelname. You have to be judge assistant (study for it takes many days) You most study breeding basic curse part one and part two. again you need breedclub recommendation. Then maybe you can go to suitabletest and "dogeye"test and maybe pass it as well. Then you can study 4 differents books genetiand then you can ask if kennelclub accept you. Studing bacic course takes over 8 weeks. Every breed most study sepparatelly and you most pass judgingtest for each. And you most to do judging practise many times. Judgecurse is very expensive and takes lot of your time. And if you are judge you most study every year and make tests. Its so easy and light to come judge in Finland __________________ www.csv.fi

02-05-2007, 14:53	#26
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	Options for Dutch breeders: A . For Hobby breeders who only incidental breed: A. Without kennelname: •Breeder has to know all the administrative things (for example about new rules how to get pedigree for puppy’s) •Puppy’s will also get FCI pedigree A.With kennelname: •Course KK1 is strongly advised but not obligatory •Condition and circumstances of the dogs have to be good •All the dogs has to have a pedigree (if wanted you have to show them) •Females in heat have to be separated when this is nescecary •The area ofor the litter has to be dry, clean, warm and big enough. •The breeder has to look after this several times •The mother dog has to have possibillity to move in the birthgroom •She also needs a place where she can lay seperate from puppy’s. •And she has to have possibility to go outside. •Breeder has to take care for good socialisaition •Breeder has to know all the administrative things (for example about new rules how to get pedigree for puppy’s) * When a breeder don’t keep the litter in his house/ room, there are more specific and technical rules for keeping a litter!! B. Professional breeders (operating more efficiently) with more then incidental puppy’s: •They has to operate conform all the rules of the cats/dogs decision of the Dutch government (since 2002) •Then course KK1 Is obligated (For your info I am a Ductch hobbybreeder with kennel name ) __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!!

02-05-2007, 17:44	#27
mijke Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Warnsveld Posts: 2,033	By the way, these were only the rules of the Dutch kennel organisation (RVBH)about Kennelname and pedigree. Besisde this, every official (breed -)club has their own specific breeding rules When a member of a (breed-) club is breeding conform their specific rules; they are clubbreeder and will get free advertisement for litters and their kennel of the club. When members don't, the puppies wil still be official dogs of that breed (with official FCI pedigree). But these breeders wil not get club advertisement. __________________ Vriendelijke groeten, Mijke PS: I am not a moderator anymore!!

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02-05-2007, 10:42	#21
Koos Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 731	Hello Suski, To be a FCI judge you need several things. At first that part I wrote about. Then it continues with with more genetic, phychologic from the dog, more information about the inside of the dog and feeding problems and illnesses and a part of moving form the different kind of dogs. Also at the end an exam. Then the 3. part, this is a combination of recognizing movement and exterior from different dogs with his special muskulation for it and recognation of diffenrent coats. Also with an exam with judging 3 males and 3 females dogs from diffenrent races and another part, speaking about dogs and mistakes by dogs and examination over all the FCI races. Of course all the about 400 races is much too long to speak about but we have to learn them all. After that you are a beginning judge and allowed to judge only your kind of race you are interesting in. Not at FCI National of International show but also at lokal shows to make experiences with judging. To be a real judge you have to do race exam and that will be an exam with 3 males and 3 females and writing a judgereport and then after that part you will be examinated by some people about these reports and you knowlegde about this race and illnesses and futureprogramm and how the stand of breeding is at that moment and how the standard was writing and the changements during the years. When you come trough this all you are a real judge an allowed to judging at FCI shows. Then you have to do 4 national shows and after that you are allowed to judge in foreing countries with only allowness of our National Kennelclub. So if you do this whole project it takes, in the most optimal conditions, 4 - 5 years to become a judge. If you fale for one of these exams you have to wait for over one year and for the real judgeexams it depends when the race club will organize such an exam again and that can be taken minimal 5 years. So it takes a looooooong time to become a judge. Letty

02-05-2007, 13:08	#24
Koos Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 731	OK Nanouk, you are right but as a responseble breeder I will get names by my puppies. As you wrote, you can breed without that part but for registration of your kennelname you have to do the first part of the course. Having one female and having one litter of course it is very intensive to do this all but I think it is wise to do it, because you learn a lot and your puppies will having a kennelname. There is also a difference between the kennelclub and the organisation of animal protection about the litters and the puppies. One say 4 litters and the other one say 20 puppies The kennelclub sais that for "hobby" breeding you can go till 4 litters and/of 20 puppies. After that your are a "professional" breeder. When you have 3 females and all three are mated and they give each 7 puppies. (Also you keep these females in your house and not in kennels) What are you then, a professional breeder or a hobbybreeder. You still have 3 litters but there are more then 20 puppies????? I know one puppy will not give any problem but what to do when they give all 9 puppies. Maybe the kennelclub will not give you the papers and what then. I think it is still wise to have the kennelname and to do these course but this is my personel opinion. Letty

02-05-2007, 13:30	#25
nanouk Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 208	I agree Letty, breeding is something very serious to me, i personally don#t even have a bitch atm, but took the courses and expend my views and knowledge where i can so that i am as prepared as i can be if i ever get my bitch. And probably even than, attending births by other breeders, paperknowledge is far from the same as the real stuff But in holland , getting a kennelname does not require the KK1 course finished or many other requirements. the regulations first become stricter as mentioned above, 4 litters or more of 20 puppies or more. To me the dutch kennelclub is nothing more than an pedigree issueing instituation, much depends on the integrity of the breeder himself and rules and regulations are very lush!

02-05-2007, 20:52	#28
Koos Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 731	After the rules from the Dutch Kennelclub and the breedersclub there are some more rules when you go over 20 puppies and/or 4 litters. You must have some licenses from the town where you live and some from the organisation for protecting animals. And they come unexpected several times to look after how your dogs are looking and if the whole situation is clean. If not, they reported to the Dutch kennelclub and sometimes you are not allowed for a certain time, to breed. Also the Dutch Kennelclub can send someone to look after, so it not only an institution for giving pedigrees Letty