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Old 04-10-2004, 16:41   #21
z Peronówki
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I don't know where you have taken the translation from the de Dutch Breeding club,but I never heard anyone saying in holland that the SWH is better to train as a CzW.The SWH is not a working dog like the CzW.
The SWh is a calm dog,who is very social with dogs and people.
Hmmmm......While reading your answer I recalled my idea for a bigger article. Comparision between Saarloos and CzW is one of the most popular topics. I had an idea to write an article consisted of three parts:
- comparison of the exterier
- comparison of the character
- some words written by people which own CzW AND Saarloos. Or by people which have good contact with both breeds.

I think it will be not only interesting but also important for future puppy buyers. Both breed are different and CzW sometimes buy people which sould buy a Saarloos because it fits better to their needs and there are also people for which CzW would be a better solution...

Someone interested...?
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Old 04-10-2004, 16:48   #22
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Hello, Margo!

It is just under work..
But. I can't promise it before begin of next year, cause i just do BIIIG work with it (slowly a book..) It is very interesting, and hopefully as many as possible will tell own comments, but i guess facts need to listed also, not only opinions. As you know i have momentally 3 dogs from both breeds at home, and hopefully puppies from saarloos this year also.
So, i can help, but not just at this moment.
Is this how urgent???

Suski
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Old 04-10-2004, 17:33   #23
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Originally Posted by Wolfsirius
So, i can help, but not just at this moment.
Is this how urgent???
Suski
No problem - it is not urgent.... WE have a lot of time to colect info and photos...
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Old 04-10-2004, 21:33   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margo
I had an idea to write an article consisted of three parts:
- comparison of the exterier
- comparison of the character
- some words written by people which own CzW AND Saarloos. Or by people which have good contact with both breeds.
And be sure I'll help you!!

Very often I have woldog intersted people/guests and have to explain a lot about the differences

And always I advise them to visit not only breeders but also owners of these breeds. And of course in Holland it is more easy to arrange this

greetings,
Mijke
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Old 04-10-2004, 21:40   #25
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So, Mijke, can you do it with me?

-Suski
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Old 04-10-2004, 23:08   #26
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Of course, I'll share information with everybody who want this !

As I did tell you before in a private mail, I am doing my best to arrange more for you before next weekend! But I did not get yet the response I did wish

greetings
mijke
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:00   #27
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I think Mijke,you are the right person to help with this.You 've seen a lot of both breeds.An not only from 1 breeder and that is good,because not only the type from 1 breeder is different from another,also the character.
And Suski have also different types,maybe you must have a SWH from the dutch breeding club,so you been complete )

Gr. Christa
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:04   #28
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Ok, Christa! Do you know anybody could help me with that?
I mean to get dog from the club. I promise to survive myself with payment of 50.000€, if i use it later for breeding.

Suski
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Old 16-12-2008, 06:52   #29
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I would love to see a write up of the comparasins of the two breeds. Please e-mail me or post them.

Thanks.
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Old 16-12-2008, 21:06   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philippe View Post
Hi, all,

The answer to this question is quite simple (!).

To avoid any misunderstanding, you need to contact Mrs Cornelia Keizer, who own all original notebooks written by Mr Saarloos, and ask for a copy of it! Then, there will be no more doubt!

Philippe
the type of wolf is not mentioned in the original manuscripts just by its name only, i have full copy of original manuscripts written by Mr Saarloos,,,,,,,pacino
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Old 16-12-2008, 21:41   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solowolf View Post
the type of wolf is not mentioned in the original manuscripts just by its name only, i have full copy of original manuscripts written by Mr Saarloos,,,,,,,pacino
do you mind sharing.. Bertus has a rather large collection, the nvswh does, marijek offcoarse does and corrie does...
would be interesting, think specially to bertus, to have your collection as well, might complete the picture
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Old 16-12-2008, 22:12   #32
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Originally Posted by michaelundinaeichhorn View Post
Thank you,

one year ago a breeder told me there are even less but he didn´t know exact counts eather. That means there are not more than 1000 dogs worldwide, that breed in at least 2 clubs that don´t talk to each other and don´t exchange dogs as far as I am informed. I don´t think the red ones are crossbreeds and I didn´t see a blue eyed one but I think it´s possible they occure now and then because that´s absolutely normal in such small populations. I know some crossbreeds with Czechoslow. Wolfdogs, these are not the red ones and to be honest I think without them the breed will die out but that is not my concern. But I don´t know if there have been any other crossbreeds with other breeds.


Ina
no they dont exchange dogs as one club is breeding pure Saarloos the other has greated numerous health problems via cross breeding, such as heart , eye, epilepsy and dwafs,, so INA you now admit you know of some cross bred Saarloos and CWS, and you ask me to prove what i say on line is true,,???, to make statement that Saarloos may die out if not for these cross breedings is absolute and utter nonsense i have never heard of such a load of trash in my life, and you are on this site giving advice on something, to cross breed is one thing to register the cross breeds is outragous, http://www.saarlooswolfdog.com/Pedig..._Did=365&Lid=1
all on this post have a look at this Saarloos Zazi zen ,,or is it, if it is i think we should all give up,, the father is called SENNA,,funny the owner of Senna made statement to say dogs has never been used at stud,, ever,,, now go into wolfdog.org and see Chrop z kladenske zare WHOS YOUR DADDY, so Zazi zen is registered as a Saarloos,,,,,,,so if people do want to compare the two breeds please make sure you do ask the right people and see the correct dogs,,,,,,,INA if you have as you say you have any facts of cross breedings and they are registered dogs i ask you now to report it to the FCI,, these people are destroying a breed and if you have seen any of the dwarfs Saarloos you will do it for the dogs if nothing else,,,,,r winder not ammused at all,,,,have sent copy of your post to dutch breed club secretary
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Old 16-12-2008, 22:24   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nanouk View Post
do you mind sharing.. Bertus has a rather large collection, the nvswh does, marijek offcoarse does and corrie does...
would be interesting, think specially to bertus, to have your collection as well, might complete the picture
i have same copy as Marijek and Corrie but if you want copy send address by private mail and i will burn cd for you regards pacino
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Old 16-12-2008, 22:28   #34
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thank you

my adress is nanouk immers
zwanewater 1
2715 bg
zoetermeer
NL

I will be willing to pay costs for shipping !
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Old 16-12-2008, 22:32   #35
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Quote:
That means there are not more than 1000 dogs worldwide, that breed in at least 2 clubs that don´t talk to each other and don´t exchange dogs as far as I am informed.
that information is a little outdated... look at the database, tunka troy timberly, hohene, lupus ljarkow, diesel, solo all NVSWH used outside their population...not eveyone is stuck in the past..some are looking forward rahter than being stuck in otherones quarrels that are in the past
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Old 18-11-2010, 01:18   #36
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Most of the posts on this topic are allready several years old, so I just HOPE you have done your homework about wild wolves within these years, and learned that there are NO adult pure wolves with blue eyes; it is a dog trait and usually seen in wolfdogs that are mixed with Huskies.
I truly hope none of you base your knowledge of wolves on what you see in calenders or at some random internet pages.
In this crazy world there are zoos that have wolfdogs as "wolves", and I have books about wolves, that show pictures of Northern breeds & wolfdogs. And even a book about dog breeds, that shows Alaskan Malamute with blue eyes (a heavy built show type Husky in the pic ).
There are lots of false information out there, but people who have really done their homework and research about wolves & canines overall, also know WHERE to look for the CORRECT information.
I must say I find it quite worrying that there are breeders of wolfdogs (FCI recognized and non-recognized) who obviously lack even basic knowledge of wolves.


The "forest brown" coloring of the SWD has always been a question mark to me; -were it came from? I am still wondering... and searching the answer to this.
Genetically it must be similar to the "liver" color, which is caused by a gene that makes the eumelanin pigment cells, that normally produce black pigment, to produce "reddish" pigment instead. Atleast concluding the lighter pigmentation also on nose & lips etc (not only hair), which would not be the case if the reddish color would be phaeomelanin (it affects only on hair color, not skin).
http://abnormality.purpleflowers.net...cs/pigment.htm
Huskies have similar color with white markings like the SWD.
http://www.huskycolors.com/red.html
But if SWD has never been mixed with Huskies, and originates only from cross breeding of GSD & wolf, then the gene must have come from the GSD (there are liver colored GDS's, but they are quite rare and considered as fault in the FCI breed standard) and is combined with the gene for white markings;
in other words: the parts of the coat (& each sigle hair) that would "normally" be black, are liver colored, but the white markigns are the same.

I'd suppose the liver color in GSD is that rare, that the lines & individuals carrying the gene are pretty well known?
I might be wrong though, I'm no expert on the GSD lines. But if I'm right, then I'd assume it would be possible to track the individual in SWD history that introduced the liver gene into the breed. Otherwise I would not exclude the possibility that there have been cross breeding with some other breed(s) too, carrying the liver color gene.

I look forward to some genetic studies about wolf & wolfdog breeds colors.
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Last edited by Jennin Lauma; 18-11-2010 at 01:21.
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Old 18-11-2010, 01:44   #37
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As long as this thread is alive again, I would like to say that it is circulated in studies that black coats and blue eyes in wolves are likely vestiges of prior crosses with dogs, whether known & purposely done by man or not.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/02/blackwolves/

These are traits that have been reintroduced into wolf population.
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