Information about the list of the stud

Ricky's Wolf · 21-07-2009, 15:38

Good afternoon,
I'd like to know if there are new laws about the list of the STUD.

Which he must have a male dog to be inserted in this list?

- Must not they be us dogs without bonitation?

No, because in this list there are much dog whit never bonitation.

- Must not they be us dogs with results of the dyplasia B or C or D ?

No, because in this list there are much dog whit result dysplasia B and C.
Is there straight some dog without not even the results of the dysplasia.

I don't understad what is the requisite that a dog must have for being inserted in this list.
Are there also perhaps some restrictions for the dogs that are not perfect of elbows?
Possible and respectable.
But because he must not be in this list a dog that, it for example, has the results of the elbows ED 0-1 (what does it correspond to a C) and must he be us a dog that has C of dysplasia instead? Or, worse still, why must be a dog that doesn't Have the results of the elbows?

In all list of all language there is this information:
Stud dogs:Bonitation code:Hip Dysplasia (HD):Offsprings:
And not elbows result.
If is to much important the elbows result, so much to remove dogs with ED 0-1 (not prefect, but almost perfect), because they are not also removed dogs that don't have the official results of the elbows?
Dont' have a elbows result is a lot of worse to be elbows little not perfect, is wrong me?
And still, the evaluation of the elbows ED 0-1 mean that 1 elbow is perfect (A) and 1 elbow ok but not perfect (C). Why must a dog with a result of the kind have removed while who is C still has displasia there is?

Mine is not at all a polemic but a verification and I would want to understand better

I'm sorry, but I have not Understood The Logic, can Someone Help to Understand me?
THANKS, YOU I'M SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH.
Riccardo Lubrano

Juniorwolf · 21-07-2009, 20:03

Ciao Riccardo,

As far as I know, only official HD-result is needed to be at the stud dog list !

No bonitation or ED-results is neededand ...and if results of HD is A-B-C-D-E does not matter, the dog only need official HD result.

I can only say that I wish the list only would include dogs who have official HD + ED + Bonitation results.

Best greetings Rolf

Kerstin · 22-07-2009, 09:26

Hello, I think it is confusing because there are different rules in each country.
There are countries where you do not need bonitation to have a stud dog. Or you do not need ED results. In the end each owner has to decide whats important for him/her. I think it is great to have this information availible- it is just up to me, what I do with it.

And when I find a good dog I can still ask the owner about what I want or need.

Maybe it would be interesting, what it takes to have a stud dog in the different countries of europe? What the rules are? Then you can decide if it makes sense, or not

or if you want more or less.

Regards,
Kerstin

Ricky's Wolf · 22-07-2009, 11:41

Thanks for the answers.
I think that it is true (as Kerstin says) that it is the ower of the female of dog to ask other information however if it is interested to a stallion.
But it is true also that the list of the stud of this site is also a list that directly or indirectly publicizes a dog.

They must be us of the requisite to insert a male dog in this list and they agree.
But the requisite must be correct and equivalent for everybody.
Lately a male dog has been removed in the Italian list with official results HD A and ED 0-1. Motive (perhaps) is because the dog to 1 elbow is not 0 but he is 1. Only 1.
Ok if the laws are this the laws they must have respected.
But the laws must be correct for all!
Why a dog with HD A and ED have 0-1 (almost perfect) been removed while they are continuing to be us dogs Without official results of ED?

If the results of the elbows are very important and fundamental, they must be important for all the dogs. Should not be the dogs without results of the elbows, or I am crazy to think this normal consequence to a law?

Why dogs are there with HD C? What equal is to the 1 of the ED...

For me is not correct.

I hope to be explains well me

I ask at all if somebody know other information about this situation.
And if somebody write what think about all this situation.
Regards from Rome

massimo · 22-07-2009, 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runningwolf

Lately a male dog has been removed in the Italian list with official results HD A and ED 0-1. Motive (perhaps) is because the dog to 1 elbow is not 0 but he is 1. Only 1.
Ok if the laws are this the laws they must have respected.
But the laws must be correct for all!
Why a dog with HD A and ED have 0-1 (almost perfect) been removed while they are continuing to be us dogs Without official results of ED?

Riccardo, i don't think the ED 0-1 is the reason a dog is removed from studlist.
There surely is a different reason.
Margo will reply to you about it as soon as possible (i suppose...)
massimo

Ricky's Wolf · 29-07-2009, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by massimo

Riccardo, i don't think the ED 0-1 is the reason a dog is removed from studlist.
There surely is a different reason.
Margo will reply to you about it as soon as possible (i suppose...)
massimo

Massimo I'm agree with you, in fact I'm waiting for an answer.

Is Strange however that of all the people that live this world of ours and that they live ours beautiful website anybody has not almost answered...

I'm waiting....

Ricky's Wolf · 24-08-2009, 15:48

Hello,
I'm still waiting for an answer from the persons responsible of the site.

Juniorwolf · 24-08-2009, 17:57

Ciao Riccardo,

This is ONLY a private website and owners can do what ever they like, not that I agree with this example, but when websites are private(even if it seems to be an official and objective website), it is almost impossible not to make their own politic and personal dislikes influence the shaping of their website which in my opinion is a shame for this site as it in many other aspects seems to be equal for all.

I know for example that Czech breedingcommitee(still waiting for answer from Slovak breedingcommitee) have no problems with Italian, Slovak, German, Poland, etc. bonitations or HD/ED results, ONLY the owners here on this private site choose to make it a problem

Too bad that new owners and people who don`t seek answers elsewere(official sources), will actually belive all what is written here is facts.

Greetings Rolf

massimo · 26-08-2009, 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by massimo

What is written here is very interesting and new to me.
If this is the decision of the administration of Wolfdog.org, let it be (i'm not sooo much against it actually)
But, I kindly ask the Admin if it's possible to write, for more and better knowledge of the viewers, the criteria used to make the list and what makes you be excluded.
Also... could the Admin kindly state if ALL the dogs included in the list have HD results sent to Wolfdog.org (as always requested in the past?) or just ... announced by email from the owner.
Thanks
Massimo

Please can somebody answer to my question?

Navarre · 26-08-2009, 16:56

I still saw too many "stud" dogs that are in the database absolutely WITHOUT ED results !

This is really unfair. We should think that No result is a bad result..
I m not a great fan of parents of Voice, but i agree with rolf and riccardo, this new politic seems very strange and unfair and seems to reward only who hide the results.

Please don't hide behind the rules of each country, as in Italy there isnt any requisite, even hd D x hd E can have pedigree...if we make hd and ed is only for our sense of responsabilkty.

So I please the new Admin to remove me asmoderator of italian forum, because I really dont agree with this new "administration"

michaelundinaeichhorn · 26-08-2009, 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navarre

I still saw too many "stud" dogs that are in the database absolutely WITHOUT ED results !

"

I absolutely recommend ED x-rays and our own younger dogs are all ED-controlled. But our older dogs aren´t. The reason is simply that ED was an unknown problem of this breed when they were x-rayed and I see no sense in doing it on an older dog that never had any problem and has only free offspring. So when we ask for ED-results we should remember that some dogs are not x-rayed out of the same reasons and simply look on the results of their offspring.

Ina

Navarre · 27-08-2009, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolf

Was this not the reason why Admin made this step, to remove all dogs with ED ? ...aparrently it is for no reason, unless all dogs with HD is removed too !

They can be what they want, BUT to be honest there should be some REQUIREMENTS that are the same for all, not changing anytime.

If the requirement (right or wrong) to be in the stud list is the ED 0 exam, every dog without this exam should be removed together with dogs that don't fulfill this requirement.

Ricky's Wolf · 03-09-2009, 13:37

Hi Admin and thanks for the answers.
Would it be interesting for all of us to also know your name, don't I think that he is a true secret?

If is possible.....

I am not interested in to speak anymore of genetic HD or ED.
We will See in the future if your theory is exact.
It doesn't interest in me anymore to know where you study your theories.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admin

Other lines are CLEAR.
..

You owe, kindly, to explain to me as does to know with certainty this thing if so many so many reproducing dogs of the list don't have the official plates ED

Quote:

Originally Posted by Admin

So my question to rolf and Runningwolf:

ARE YOU ALSO FO BREEDING DOGS WITH HEART PROBLEMS, EPILEPSY, and STRONG HD (HD-D and HD-E)?

you must excuse me but your question it doesn't deserve answer.

I repeat : why have not they been removed by the list all the dogs that don't have the official plates of the elbows?
I hope that this time you will respond to this question.
The site to remain a transparent and believable site, since there are these new rules, he must be impartial and correct with everybody. he Owes Therefore to Remove The Dogs That don't Have The Official Plates Of the Elbows, Stings.

question to Admin: if I had not made ufficial the plates of the Elbows of Voice and I had sent only to you the plates HD with result To, would Voice still be in the list of the reproducers?

jmvdwiel · 03-09-2009, 14:40

I agree with some of the questions asked on the forum, why only remove the dogs with not so good ED results, and leave all the dogs on the list with NO ED resuts ?
How I see this is that you punish the people who made the ED plates and you are giving a privilage to the people that don't make the ED plates.

for example: in Holland you don't need to make the ED plates to get a pedigree for the puppies, Yes HD results is needed, but also with HD C you can breed your dog with a HDA dog

So Why is wolfdog stricter than some breeding clubs and official authorities ? I think that people can make their own disision to want a puppy yes or no from a litter anouncement on this forum.

I love the wolfdog.org site for their litter anouncement, but I think i can make a good choice for myself If I want a puppy from a certain litter.

Navarre · 03-09-2009, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runningwolf

would Voice still be in the list of the reproducers?

Of course !

The problem is very simple : why dogs without ED are in the list ? Are they ALL good ? Sure ?

Sure you don't know !

I think this is a big mistake for WD and there is no weakness into recognize and correct mistakes.
So please do the right thing and clear off the list the most (all?) of Czech and Slovakian studs...or put again into it the poor Voice.

Navarre · 04-09-2009, 10:15

Again...the Italian stud dogs with HD-C are removed from list.

Ok.

But...in all other country dogs with HD-C are still in the stud list

I don't think a polish or german or czech o slovak HD-C is far better than an italian dog HD-C.

Don't mind, that here in Italy is "someone" has good friends in right places, his ill dog will be HD-A or B, not C.
Dogs "C" or worser are "C" for sure (or better!)...as in other country.

Jal · 04-09-2009, 11:23

to answer only a noisy silence ...?

martiou07 · 04-09-2009, 14:38

hello,

i see the italian stud dog list, there is one dog with HD C

http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/6353

the problem for the X-ray ED , there is not official reader, we are late it above...

massimo · 04-09-2009, 17:21

all this talk is rather useless as we are speaking to ourselves.
It would be quite useful somebody simply replied "you are right, there are some mistakes, we are updating the studlist soon, within for ex. 7 days and rules and data will be correct and clear"
That would be enough for us I believe.
I don't need ED 0/1 to be included, as long as rules are clear and dogs included in the list really tested.
Let's not forget that the majority of CSW in the world are in Italy and Italy is also the potential biggest buyer of CSW dogs...not only from Italy but also from Czech, Slovakia...Poland...

Juniorwolf · 04-09-2009, 17:51

Massimo you are always so diplomatic

...but I would still like some questions answered, as I think that this is the purpose of a forum !

Rolf

21-07-2009, 15:38	#1
Ricky's Wolf Distinguished Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,939	Information about the list of the stud Good afternoon, I'd like to know if there are new laws about the list of the STUD. Which he must have a male dog to be inserted in this list? - Must not they be us dogs without bonitation? No, because in this list there are much dog whit never bonitation. - Must not they be us dogs with results of the dyplasia B or C or D ? No, because in this list there are much dog whit result dysplasia B and C. Is there straight some dog without not even the results of the dysplasia. I don't understad what is the requisite that a dog must have for being inserted in this list. Are there also perhaps some restrictions for the dogs that are not perfect of elbows? Possible and respectable. But because he must not be in this list a dog that, it for example, has the results of the elbows ED 0-1 (what does it correspond to a C) and must he be us a dog that has C of dysplasia instead? Or, worse still, why must be a dog that doesn't Have the results of the elbows? In all list of all language there is this information: Stud dogs:Bonitation code:Hip Dysplasia (HD):Offsprings: And not elbows result. If is to much important the elbows result, so much to remove dogs with ED 0-1 (not prefect, but almost perfect), because they are not also removed dogs that don't have the official results of the elbows? Dont' have a elbows result is a lot of worse to be elbows little not perfect, is wrong me? And still, the evaluation of the elbows ED 0-1 mean that 1 elbow is perfect (A) and 1 elbow ok but not perfect (C). Why must a dog with a result of the kind have removed while who is C still has displasia there is? Mine is not at all a polemic but a verification and I would want to understand better I'm sorry, but I have not Understood The Logic, can Someone Help to Understand me? THANKS, YOU I'M SORRY FOR MY ENGLISH. Riccardo Lubrano

22-07-2009, 09:26	#3
Kerstin Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Hessen Posts: 317	Hello, I think it is confusing because there are different rules in each country. There are countries where you do not need bonitation to have a stud dog. Or you do not need ED results. In the end each owner has to decide whats important for him/her. I think it is great to have this information availible- it is just up to me, what I do with it. And when I find a good dog I can still ask the owner about what I want or need. Maybe it would be interesting, what it takes to have a stud dog in the different countries of europe? What the rules are? Then you can decide if it makes sense, or not or if you want more or less. Regards, Kerstin __________________

22-07-2009, 11:41	#4
Ricky's Wolf Distinguished Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,939	Thanks for the answers. I think that it is true (as Kerstin says) that it is the ower of the female of dog to ask other information however if it is interested to a stallion. But it is true also that the list of the stud of this site is also a list that directly or indirectly publicizes a dog. They must be us of the requisite to insert a male dog in this list and they agree. But the requisite must be correct and equivalent for everybody. Lately a male dog has been removed in the Italian list with official results HD A and ED 0-1. Motive (perhaps) is because the dog to 1 elbow is not 0 but he is 1. Only 1. Ok if the laws are this the laws they must have respected. But the laws must be correct for all! Why a dog with HD A and ED have 0-1 (almost perfect) been removed while they are continuing to be us dogs Without official results of ED? If the results of the elbows are very important and fundamental, they must be important for all the dogs. Should not be the dogs without results of the elbows, or I am crazy to think this normal consequence to a law? Why dogs are there with HD C? What equal is to the 1 of the ED... For me is not correct. I hope to be explains well me I ask at all if somebody know other information about this situation. And if somebody write what think about all this situation. Regards from Rome Last edited by Ricky's Wolf; 22-07-2009 at 11:48.

26-08-2009, 16:56	#10
Navarre VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Roma Posts: 5,998	I still saw too many "stud" dogs that are in the database absolutely WITHOUT ED results ! This is really unfair. We should think that No result is a bad result.. I m not a great fan of parents of Voice, but i agree with rolf and riccardo, this new politic seems very strange and unfair and seems to reward only who hide the results. Please don't hide behind the rules of each country, as in Italy there isnt any requisite, even hd D x hd E can have pedigree...if we make hd and ed is only for our sense of responsabilkty. So I please the new Admin to remove me asmoderator of italian forum, because I really dont agree with this new "administration" __________________ Susanna & Gianluca & Andrea & Navarre & Isabeau & Brandimarte & Anastasia & Lana Last Navarre & Beau Isabeau

04-09-2009, 10:15	#16
Navarre VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Roma Posts: 5,998	Again...the Italian stud dogs with HD-C are removed from list. Ok. But...in all other country dogs with HD-C are still in the stud list I don't think a polish or german or czech o slovak HD-C is far better than an italian dog HD-C. Don't mind, that here in Italy is "someone" has good friends in right places, his ill dog will be HD-A or B, not C. Dogs "C" or worser are "C" for sure (or better!)...as in other country. __________________ Susanna & Gianluca & Andrea & Navarre & Isabeau & Brandimarte & Anastasia & Lana Last Navarre & Beau Isabeau Last edited by Navarre; 04-09-2009 at 10:55.

21-07-2009, 20:03	#2
Juniorwolf Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 575	Ciao Riccardo, As far as I know, only official HD-result is needed to be at the stud dog list ! No bonitation or ED-results is neededand ...and if results of HD is A-B-C-D-E does not matter, the dog only need official HD result. I can only say that I wish the list only would include dogs who have official HD + ED + Bonitation results. Best greetings Rolf

24-08-2009, 15:48	#7
Ricky's Wolf Distinguished Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,939	Hello, I'm still waiting for an answer from the persons responsible of the site.

24-08-2009, 17:57	#8
Juniorwolf Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 575	Ciao Riccardo, This is ONLY a private website and owners can do what ever they like, not that I agree with this example, but when websites are private(even if it seems to be an official and objective website), it is almost impossible not to make their own politic and personal dislikes influence the shaping of their website which in my opinion is a shame for this site as it in many other aspects seems to be equal for all. I know for example that Czech breedingcommitee(still waiting for answer from Slovak breedingcommitee) have no problems with Italian, Slovak, German, Poland, etc. bonitations or HD/ED results, ONLY the owners here on this private site choose to make it a problem Too bad that new owners and people who don`t seek answers elsewere(official sources), will actually belive all what is written here is facts. Greetings Rolf

03-09-2009, 14:40	#14
jmvdwiel Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,061	I agree with some of the questions asked on the forum, why only remove the dogs with not so good ED results, and leave all the dogs on the list with NO ED resuts ? How I see this is that you punish the people who made the ED plates and you are giving a privilage to the people that don't make the ED plates. for example: in Holland you don't need to make the ED plates to get a pedigree for the puppies, Yes HD results is needed, but also with HD C you can breed your dog with a HDA dog So Why is wolfdog stricter than some breeding clubs and official authorities ? I think that people can make their own disision to want a puppy yes or no from a litter anouncement on this forum. I love the wolfdog.org site for their litter anouncement, but I think i can make a good choice for myself If I want a puppy from a certain litter.

04-09-2009, 11:23	#17
Jal Nagi e Ishta e Panuhsè Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Grosseto, Maremma...Mainland incognita Posts: 3,278	to answer only a noisy silence ...? __________________ Ciao! Andrea Loredana Jacopo e Nagi & Ishta & Panuhsè & Tawoka & Aluhksis & Awonn "... io sono un principe libero e ho altrettanta autorità di fare guerra al mondo intero quanto colui che ha cento navi in mare..." Black Samuel Bellamy, Pirata

04-09-2009, 14:38	#18
martiou07 Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: France Posts: 1,986	hello, i see the italian stud dog list, there is one dog with HD C http://www.wolfdog.org/dbase/d/6353 the problem for the X-ray ED , there is not official reader, we are late it above... __________________

04-09-2009, 17:21	#19
massimo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Prague 6 Posts: 2,090	all this talk is rather useless as we are speaking to ourselves. It would be quite useful somebody simply replied "you are right, there are some mistakes, we are updating the studlist soon, within for ex. 7 days and rules and data will be correct and clear" That would be enough for us I believe. I don't need ED 0/1 to be included, as long as rules are clear and dogs included in the list really tested. Let's not forget that the majority of CSW in the world are in Italy and Italy is also the potential biggest buyer of CSW dogs...not only from Italy but also from Czech, Slovakia...Poland... __________________ ---------- Oliver & Lunatica

04-09-2009, 17:51	#20
Juniorwolf Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 575	Massimo you are always so diplomatic ...but I would still like some questions answered, as I think that this is the purpose of a forum ! Rolf Last edited by Juniorwolf; 04-09-2009 at 18:09.