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Breeding Information about breeding, selection, litters....

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Old 20-11-2008, 13:07   #1
lupis
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Default Mixes in 'La Louve Blanche' kennel?

i read you write in your country breeder register mixes. but i hear you breeder not register mixes but also breed with false parents and puppies look different line parents. why you not make DNA test for all breeders? I read about mixes in de Louba tar. I show you in last post mixes in France from mixed parents from italian line and my friends say in france are more breeder with mixes. Margo write mix look like more husky or like Sangria and italian breeder find dog from france who is not purebreed. you know something about it?

you see it is husky goggles and not czech wolfdog mask and dog look like Sangria brother or saarloos/husky.

But i think there are more false dogs in france. my friends show me photos and i show it you. look litter merlin and ossa. in first litter you see normal wolfdog like parents





in not see blazy but blue is small like crying wolf dogs. but i hear second litter with same parents is very much different. very much huge - more like normal czech wolfdog and also look different http://www.wolfdog.org/de/gallery/cat/1/0/9967/


you see dog is not from same parents. i not see photos of other dogs from same litter but i see it by my friends and all dogs are different. my friends asked ENCI how we can check if dogs are real czech wolfdog but ENCI told we must use italian club. and we can not use italian club because main officials in our club have or breed mixes too and will not help. do you can make something in france to see if it is real. you make DNA test for de Louba tar so maybe you can make test for it litter too? because for us it is new mixes litter
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Old 20-11-2008, 13:57   #2
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Hmmm Lupis, Elf. You have only one reason. Buy pups only from kennels, where (you think) is all correct. Because dog associations in some countries does not work and countries of origin can do nothing if theese dogs have cz.wolfdog pedigree.....
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Old 20-11-2008, 17:45   #3
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The best of all this is that you can see dogs like that winning pure dogs at dogshows, even with well know judges.
This takes away any of the little credibility dogshows can have with our breed.
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Old 20-11-2008, 17:50   #4
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more question because i see something strange in database. how big is normal wolfdog litter? i hear from breeders normal is 5-8. and i check crying wolf litter and all have normal size - from 2 till 8 puppies. and i see french litter i wrote before and breeder use dogs from crying wolf but all liters are very much big. most small one is with 8 puppies and biggest is with 14 puppies. do you know litter with 14 puppies because people (CLC breeders) say it is not possible because 11 is maximum puppies in CLC. they say huge litter is normal for "outcross" it means if you use dog of other breed.
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Old 20-11-2008, 18:09   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lupis View Post
more question because i see something strange in database. how big is normal wolfdog litter? i hear from breeders normal is 5-8. and i check crying wolf litter and all have normal size - from 2 till 8 puppies. and i see french litter i wrote before and breeder use dogs from crying wolf but all liters are very much big. most small one is with 8 puppies and biggest is with 14 puppies. do you know litter with 14 puppies because people (CLC breeders) say it is not possible because 11 is maximum puppies in CLC. they say huge litter is normal for "outcross" it means if you use dog of other breed.
The biggest litter I have ever seen was a 16 puppies born from a Brazilian Mastiff, a really huge female, I think will be really rare a wolfdog gave birth to more than 12 puppies in one litter.
Outcrossing will have more puppies than a inbreeding or line breeding, but in CzW we don't have real outcrossings, so, this would never happen, only if we open the bloodline with new dogs... or mixes, all dogs have minimally a huge linebreeding in Rep Z PS, that's why imbreedings like happen in other more poppular breeds is almost forbiden, it's too dangerous.
But, even like that 14 puppies is in my point of view too much for a wolfdog, is even a huge litter for a mastiff.
Independant of how good is the litter control, will be ever pretty easy to put puppies from different litter in a small litter and register as pure dogs with the parents of the small litter, and so, make a false pedigree of "pure dogs" in mixes... I dream one day people wil need call a vet for colect blood of each puppie in the litter for make a DNA test... and even like that will be possible cheat.
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Last edited by Nebulosa; 20-11-2008 at 18:11.
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Old 20-11-2008, 22:57   #6
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Default Cross breeds

Quote:
Originally Posted by furyos View Post
.. ossa NEVER have 14 pupp ..
Just have a look at the data of Ossa:

9 B descendants
9 C descendants
14 D descendants

If it´s not true it should be corrected.
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Old 20-11-2008, 23:53   #7
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hi angelika .. it will be great to change it .. sure .. and know in same time who send this information ... not me in this case .. but .. if some peolpe like spend time ... best regards .. frank
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Old 20-11-2008, 23:59   #8
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for information .. "d" litter 10 pupps ...
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Old 21-11-2008, 00:04   #9
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By the way I really don't think they will acept and put online a information about a new litter wich haven't been sended by the breeder like that.
Nor even that they would put wrong the number of puppies.
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Old 21-11-2008, 00:17   #10
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ok paula .... y send a mail to margo ;... but y m so curious to know WHO ploay to send bad info litter on my kennel .. strange not????
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Old 21-11-2008, 00:18   #11
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do yu have this sort of information?? margo know not???(it's necessary have name to send info not?)
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Old 21-11-2008, 00:52   #12
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Frank, it would be fine if you have a look at all data of your kennel. There are a lot of C-descendants and more than 40 (!!) D-descendants.

Perhaps you´ve made this chaos yourself by announcing first the number of the puppies and later on the names??

Last edited by Angelika; 21-11-2008 at 00:57.
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Old 21-11-2008, 00:55   #13
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hi angelika .. yes y note all database are wrong .."c" and "d "litter have not exact reference (parents .. owners etc ..) y ever send some mail to wolfdog to change it but allways same mistakes .. if yu prefer y can send yu all informations on .. and yu do transformation ... what do yu think ?...best regards
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Old 21-11-2008, 01:05   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelika View Post
Frank, it would be fine if you have a look at all data of your kennel. There are a lot of C-descendants and more than 40 (!!) D-descendants.

Perhaps you´ve made this chaos yourself by announcing first the number of the puppies and later on the names??
but these D dogs are different litters, in France some breeders put the letter of the litter name according the year, so, you will have a B year, a D year and so on.
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Old 21-11-2008, 01:19   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by furyos View Post
.. if yu prefer y can send yu all informations on .. and yu do transformation ... what do yu think ?...
Sorry, Frank, I´m without any influence on the database. Perhaps Paula or Fabrice can help.
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Old 21-11-2008, 01:20   #16
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Paula .. my litters is french register's letter(LOF)...2006 is "B" .........2007 is C.... 2008 is D ... and 2009 is E.....2010 is F ...etc ..... y give allways to margo how mutch pupps are born ... and yes after name and owner ... it's true .. BUT not yet for last ossa litter... y ' m so curious to know "the responsable" to this last mistake..
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Old 21-11-2008, 01:21   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebulosa View Post
but these D dogs are different litters, in France some breeders put the letter of the litter name according the year, so, you will have a B year, a D year and so on.
Yes, Paula, but this kennel has about 24 or 25 D dogs with 3 mothers, not 40
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Old 21-11-2008, 02:07   #18
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HEYYYY LUPIS !!! how are yu??? y don't note yur last topic on my dogs .... hum thanks a lot if yu show them and open discussion on .. very good publicity for my kennel .. well just for yu .. yu have doubts for blazy and blue .. not twinn sure .. but go to boheme on database and see more same type (compare female with female and male with male please for morphotype) .. well for c 'pouchka sure she 's darker ... but do yu see Balrog from first litter ??? for clearly coat yu can see ckinai and cyrcee (same than blasy/blue/boheme)... . just a question do yu know enigmatik and genetik in a new breed in construction??? but if yu want .. yu can visit me in france and do all ADN test yu want .. y m so happy to help yu ... !! BUt if yu couldn't prove anything y hope yu give me a lot of money for my time spend near yu ... For the end :say hi !!!to yur friend who speak about me with you ... y m so glad to note my work is in yur discussion .... for dream 'wolf yu have devil grey /demoniak diamond and darween in same litter ....all different BUT so so wolfish and so so nice .... y forget to say ... yu know what .. y have 100 wolwes in my garden in Paris and y do mariage with them ... all color yu want .. red /black/green / pink..etc .. witch one yu need .... ???? best regards ;.. yur friend frank
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Old 24-11-2008, 20:40   #19
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Frankie, C`Pouchka, nice looking, but I can not understand too, that Merlin und Ossa should be the parents...?! I remember I think it was a good 1 1/2 year ago maybe a bit more, that you did publish in french homepage for selling dogs the first litter from Merlin and Ossa. But the funny thing was that you took pictures from american wolfdogs with brown coat like C´´Pouchka has and white mask from wolf. It has been hybrids but not Merlin and Ossa. And some people ask you and you remember what, it took 1 day and you took the pictures from the net and did not answer the questions what kind of dogs these were. I think there is here in english forum a thread. If I have time I will search. And when I see now C´Pouchka for me she looks like not Merlin was father but one of these hybrids. What do you say?

I remember talking to some people who saw you with your dogs at the end of june in germany and they told me these were not csw. Funny is that one of these people were Michael Eichhorn who now took Blue for breeding his Falin. He told me that the C-litter could not have the same parents. And if I see here this pic from C´Pouchka, no I think too, different parent.

Christian

owner of the sister to Merlin, Myla Crying Wolf
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Old 24-11-2008, 20:53   #20
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I just notice that the thread is right on top Frankies kennel and I wrote on 21.1.2007. But it was another pic with two hybrids standing right beside a hut. Not the mother with new puppies.

Christian
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