Originally Posted by massimo (Bericht 167947)

There is no JUDGEMENT on Studs, Bitches or Litter.
It is just MORE direct information to users of this site.
Nobody said that the "green" Group A litter is better than the "red" group C one... just that on the Group A you have more direct information than the group C.

Originally Posted by littlepeet (Bericht 168090)

The litter ads should be divided in group A, B and C - depending on if the parents do have HD results and/or bonitation or not - and this should not be a judgement. How real is it, that interested buyers as well as breeders do not assum it as judgement?

Originally Posted by Mikael (Bericht 168053)

To Nebulosa

I think people will understand that the breeders in America are not abel to bonitate :rock_3

I also think that a dog from a B-breeder whit good working results are beter than a dog from a A-breeder whit only a bonitation as working (title)

But I do not think we can do the system after you, or other breeders in America
or breeders far away like Finland, Sweden, Israel etc...

I might find my self on the B list one day, and I do not se this as a big problem at all...:rock_3

It is what is best fore the breed that is important here, nothing else :)

Regards / Mikael

Originally Posted by Nebulosa (Bericht 168104)

Mikael, for you, me, Rona, Massimo, Margo and all other well informed person A or B group won't matter, won't be quality signal or any judgement type, will be only a way to separe bonitated dogs to these wich aren't, but for not well informed people or for people wich is recently getting information about breeding, that don't know already how bonitation is done, what is needed for do this, yes, it will matter because for then A will be first class and B second one, with less quality only for be in B.
So, what I, you or Hanka will think about it won't matter because you're informed, you know what is a bonitation and what is needed, but others not. This is the only problem.
Suppossing you will be breeder, so, your kennel, that do things right, that make all exams but unfortunatelly that haven't time enough for make all tryp and bonitate your dogs, you will be the same as any other irresponsible, lazy or "too much occupied for its dogs" kennel that live at side of the original countries and don't have bonitate theyrs dog by fear or lack quality, for not informed people, wich not know genetics, lines and so on, we're all be the same.
I really don't want a different Database for who live far, but I think that have more important things that may be valuated than only bonitation to put a dog in A or B class.

Other important thing, this is a database, so, when more information we get better for us and the breed, by the way I think litters without HD may not be announced, but I think that these litters without HD when not announced not leave futurelly informations for us about the pupies that born. These information can be gold, if in these litter had a displasic dog, if not, how many die and so on, so I don't think the site must be so restrict in the announcement, the good point in all this topic is that divide litters and even breeders by categories will allow everybody announce and fullfill the information about theyrs litters, so, we will have more information here, but, we need think really well before do anything.

But you know... the main goal is kill Przemek working :p

Originally Posted by Rona (Bericht 168152)

But why use A,B or C categories or colours that mean/indicate categories? Why not put letter symbols by the litters, and by clicking at them they would open the explanation, just like it is with the bonitation codes.

BX/BX (would mean both parents bonitated and X-rayed)
BX/X (both parents X-rayed, one additionally bonitated)
X/X (both parents X-rayed, none of them bonitated)
UX/X (one parent without HD result, another X-rayed, none of them bonitated)
UX/BX (one parent unX-rayed, another bonitated and X-rayed)
etc.

In this way boniation would be an important asset of the dog, but it's lack - not a particular disadvantage, HD result - a basic asset but the lack of X , i.e. the UX - an indicated disadvantage.

In this way X/X would be the minimal standard advised to the buyer to look for, and XB/XB - the highest. On the other hand, the system would have more informative character than judgemental.

Any reaction to this?:ehmmm

Originally Posted by Mikael (Bericht 168160)

I think a system like that will be very hard fore a new wiewer,
to many codes

Originally Posted by Rona (Bericht 168165)

1st code - B (bonitation)
2nd code - X (X-rayed)
3rd code - UX (unX-rayed)

Too many? :shock::lol:

Originally Posted by wildenmorgen (Bericht 168169)

Maybe something like this...

Litters

* Link to article on BONITATION
* Link to article on IMPORTANCE OF HIP DYSPLASIA TESTING

Hip Dysplasia and Bonitation Results Available for both parents
01/01/09 - Kennel A
05/01/09 - Kennel B
04/02/09 - Kennel C

Hip Dysplasia Results Available for both parents
16/01/09 - Kennel A
17/02/09 - Kennel B

Hip Dysplasia and/or Bonitation Results Available for one parent ONLY on wolfdog.org
15/01/09 - Kennel A

No Test Results Available on Wolfdog.org (Maybe available upon request from breeder)
03/01/09 - Kennel A

Originally Posted by Mikael (Bericht 168174)

I think it looks good, but is it hard enough ?

Will the unserious breeder do a X-ray and be good breeders ?
Or will it be like today, the breed will get more unhealthy fore every day ?

Regards / Mikael

Originally Posted by Mikael (Bericht 168174)

I think it looks good, but is it hard enough ?

Originally Posted by Rona (Bericht 168187)

:shock::shock::shock: What do you mean?
Mikael, are you saying that you want improve the breed by being hard ??? :shocked

I'm an old woman and may assure you that one cannot improve anything, nor stimulate cooperation among people by being hard on them. Besides, WD is not a CSV parliament and have neither legislative power nor Margo & Przemek have breeding police at their disposal :lol::rock_3 Any breeder may take his toys and go to play elswhere any time....8)

In my opinion it would much more reasonable and effective to praise good breeders, show what practice/ behaviour makes them good... publicly in a visible place display the information, just like Marcy suggests... so that others would feel compelled to catch up with the high standards... 8)

I'm out of the discussion now, it's getting too abstract for me. :lol: :hand

Originally Posted by wildenmorgen (Bericht 168175)

Unfortunately, I don't think it will ever be that simple...:cry:

Healthy breeding over time, I think, relies on a system of 3 elements:
1. Breeders breeding for ethical reasons - not to make money
2. Buyers making educated and informed decisions - and not supporting sales of potentially unhealthy litters
3. Clubs making sanctions against registration of litters from parents with unknown HD results

One website, or even poor reputations don't necessarily change the way people breed...for people like you or I - who do try to act in the best interests of the breed, it is equally important to know "what else" is out there - by allowing those litters with unknown results on here also - for better or worse - it promotes awareness, and the passage of knowledge. By including an easy link to articles on HD and bonitation, hopefully potential buyers will take a few moments to read and understand what they are looking at, and what they should be looking for...

And it is my goal - one day - to have bonitations in America!;-)

All of the very best!

Originally Posted by Rona (Bericht 168187)

I'm an old woman

Originally Posted by Vaiva (Bericht 168154)

Or maybe it is enought just to do one simple thing - when one opens the information about the litter (any of them - with HD or without it, bonitated or not), he sees big bold letters on the upper part of the page (before the photos of parents), something like: "Attention. HD results are important, because....., pay your attention to the bonitation code, it is important because..." The formulation should be short and clear :roll:

Usually people simply do not know how important HD is, also nobody knows about bonitation if had nothing in common with CsW before.

Originally Posted by Rona (Bericht 168187)

In my opinion it would much more reasonable and effective to praise good breeders, show what practice/ behaviour makes them good... publicly in a visible place display the information, just like Marcy suggests...